why bring a rogue to a raid?

[Deleted]

I feel like we miss some unique utility.
we bring nothing to the table, that other classes cant do just as well, or better.
before our dps nerfs, we could rely on our top dps.
but now i cant see any reason why we should be in a raid, except for being a decent player.
im not complaining about our dps nerfs, our dmg is fine. but some sorta unique utility instead, would be nice, imo.

EDIT: copy pasta my last response

ive realised that its not really a rogue issue. instead the issue is, like others pointed out, the added mechaniscs on most mythic bosses are very melee unfriendly.

like on fetid we started progress with 8 melee, not gonna happend. so we recruited more ranged and had a feral and surv hunter go range.
Now we got 4 melee left, DH, warrior, paladin and me, but if we had another ranged in the rooster, id prolly be the benched aswell. and im only in the group, because im a stubborn A-hole who dont voulenteer to sit.
i have a secure spot on zul for sure, but the last 2 bosses, theres no good reason why i should get a spot, unless i get a ranged alt geared to the teeth. even then id be low prio, why choose an alt over a main range?

yes, most melee do good dps, and its a good idea to bring as many as mechanics allow. too bad the mechanics dictate, the fewer the better.

but on normal/heroic, m+ and pvp, rogues are in a great spot! so no wonder many think im an idiot for complaining
"aw bohoo, your class is not desired for a very small part of the game, poor you". too bad for me that that small part is what i care about the most.

[Kaver]

I feel like we miss some unique utility.
we bring nothing to the table, that other classes cant do just as well, or better.
before our dps nerfs, we could rely on our top dps.
but now i cant see any reason why we should be in a raid, except for being a decent player.
im not complaining about our dps nerfs, our dmg is fine. but some sorta unique utility instead, would be nice, imo.

They should make a raid boss that could be lock picked

[Canderous1]

i feel like rogues bring a lot to raids, among them their abilities to avoid or flat out not take damage from things that would destroy most of the other melee classes.

[MisterBigglez]

Have you seen how strong rogues are on Zul? That boss is easy mode with a few rogues.

Rogues are one of the strongest melee specs to raid with, it's not just damage that you bring, but you have a spell immunity on a short cd, an aoe dmg reduction on a very short cd, cheat death, crimson vial as a backup heal and for emergencies, evasion to tank for 10 seconds. Of course not every spec gets stuff like the vial but the rest is more than enough to justify bringing a rogue.

[shaunika123]

uhm

the fact that we're immortal comes to mind

that said

uldir currently is very ranged favoured


also, in what world is rogue dps still not top tier?
if you're not doing good dps on rogue you're bad

[Deleted]

i feel like rogues bring a lot to raids, among them their abilities to avoid or flat out not take damage from things that would destroy most of the other melee classes.

sure we got some good defensives, that allow us to stand in shit, that we shouldnt be standing in, in the first place. but what benefit does that have to a raidgroup?
god forbid that we become soaking bots, like in tomb of soakgeras.
a raid, dont NEED a rogue, unlike a DH with 5% spell dmg buff, monk with 5% physical dmg buff, warrior with battle shout. on top of the obligatory buffs, these classes do better dps on mythic, than any rogue spec. paladins are below us on dps, but they bring alot of utility with wisdom/kings and hands. frost dks top the meters and got grip.
oh and if you look at logs, remember to filter it to post nerfs (1 week). as i said before, our dps is fine, but not "top tier" anymore.

edit: @Dottywotty is 2min on cloak a "short" cd?

[Deleted]

sure we got some good defensives, that allow us to stand in shit, that we shouldnt be standing in, in the first place. but what benefit does that have to a raidgroup?
god forbid that we become soaking bots, like in tomb of soakgeras.
a raid, dont NEED a rogue, unlike a DH with 5% spell dmg buff, monk with 5% physical dmg buff, warrior with battle shout. on top of the obligatory buffs, these classes do better dps on mythic, than any rogue spec. paladins are below us on dps, but they bring alot of utility with wisdom/kings and hands. frost dks top the meters and got grip.

you can whine about not beign needed but the fact is rogues are one of the msot stacked mele classes for raids in the history of raiding so i feels like you are whining about nothing.

[Ozzyorcborne]

Does a reliable DPS class NEED to bring utility? Rogues are solid classes from what ive seen and are fairly sturdy to boot.

[Deleted]

you can whine about not beign needed but the fact is rogues are one of the msot stacked mele classes for raids in the history of raiding so i feels like you are whining about nothing.

were one trick ponies on zul, any other boss, you are wrong.

[shaunika123]

sure we got some good defensives, that allow us to stand in shit, that we shouldnt be standing in, in the first place. but what benefit does that have to a raidgroup?
god forbid that we become soaking bots, like in tomb of soakgeras.
a raid, dont NEED a rogue, unlike a DH with 5% spell dmg buff, monk with 5% physical dmg buff, warrior with battle shout. on top of the obligatory buffs, these classes do better dps on mythic, than any rogue spec. paladins are below us on dps, but they bring alot of utility with wisdom/kings and hands. frost dks top the meters and got grip.

oky let's start

1. taloc: you can completely negate a blood pool and not only give the raid more space but give you more dps since you dont have to run out

2. mother, you can keep dpsing the boss and cloak the lazers, or cloak the flames in the last room to finish the boss (we killed her mythic first time with 2 rogues surviving the flame room

3. zekvoz, you can cloak the big purple shit which comes in handy if you get eye beamed and dont have much space to spread

4. vectis, you can soak double pools with it, or just stop taking dmg from the dot to give your healers more breating room

5. fetid, you can cloak at the end of the small circle and completely avoid geting a big circle which is fucking huge

6. zul, you can pre cloak the stacking debuff of p2 and dont take dmg from it at all

7. mythrax, you can cloak the debuff early so they dont blow up at the same time

8. ghuun you can cloak to not take dmg from the stacking debuff, you can cloak the malignant growths, and I think you can pre cloak the bursting boils too but I havent done him on mythic yet so I'm not sure about that.

and this is just cloak, you also have feint for a bunch of shit, like cheat death

and our damage is great

we're one of the best at bursting down the adds on fetid, we're obviously insane on zul, any time there's any AOE our single target dmg becomes unbeatable

we're fine dude

you really underestimate how much sheer survivability matters on progress raids

[MisterBigglez]

sure we got some good defensives, that allow us to stand in shit, that we shouldnt be standing in, in the first place. but what benefit does that have to a raidgroup?
god forbid that we become soaking bots, like in tomb of soakgeras.
a raid, dont NEED a rogue, unlike a DH with 5% spell dmg buff, monk with 5% physical dmg buff, warrior with battle shout. on top of the obligatory buffs, these classes do better dps on mythic, than any rogue spec. paladins are below us on dps, but they bring alot of utility with wisdom/kings and hands. frost dks top the meters and got grip.
oh and if you look at logs, remember to filter it to post nerfs (1 week). as i said before, our dps is fine, but not "top tier" anymore.

edit: @Dottywotty is 2min on cloak a "short" cd?

You don't have to stand in shit to make use of your defensives. Is this what you do? Maybe thats why noone takes you and now you feel as though noone wants rogues. By all means, go play something else if thats how you feel.

[Micronetic]

oky let's start

1. talon: you can completely negate a blood pool and not only give the raid more space but give you more dps since you dont have to run out
2. mother, you can keep dpsing the boss and cloak the lazers, or cloak the flames in the last room to finish the boss (we killed her mythic first time with 2 rogues surviving the flame room
3. zekvoz, you can cloak the big purple shit which comes in handy if you get eye beamed and dont have much space to spread
4. vectis, you can soak double pools with it, or just stop taking dmg from the dot to give your healers more breating room
5. fetid, you can cloak at the end of the small circle and completely avoid geting a big circle which is fucking huge
6. zul, you can pre cloak the stacking debuff of p2 and dont take dmg from it at all
7. mythrax, you can cloak the debuff early so they dont blow up at the same time
8. you can cloak to not take dmg from the stacking debuff, you can cloak the malignant growths, and I think you can pre cloak the bursting boils too but I havent done him on mythic yet so I'm not sure about that.

Cool thanks for that, I am not a Rogue pro (Warlock since Cata) and this will come in handy

[Meiffert]

we bring nothing to the table, that other classes cant do just as well, or better.

I'm really not sure if you are being serious, but in case you are, this is boss damage from our latest Uldir encounter (mythic Zul):

[Darknessvamp]

They should make a raid boss that could be lock picked

Now you've got me thinking of bosses that have armour pieces which Rogues would have the ability to unlock and drop at the links and increase the raid's damage done to them. That or a mimic type of boss that can be knocked into it's third phase quicker after a rogue unlocks it again.

[Pandragon]

I feel like we miss some unique utility.
we bring nothing to the table, that other classes cant do just as well, or better.
before our dps nerfs, we could rely on our top dps.
but now i cant see any reason why we should be in a raid, except for being a decent player.
im not complaining about our dps nerfs, our dmg is fine. but some sorta unique utility instead, would be nice, imo.

Play a Windwalker for a bit and you will see all the stuff a Rogue brings. The only unique thing a WW has is a movement speed aura that people don't even pay attention to. Soloing the orb on G'Huun doesn't count. That's just one boss. lol

I'd probably raid more on my rogue for my guild if it wasn't such a pain in the butt to gear up in BFA. My monk can tank, but on my rogue. Sit there for over an hour waiting for a tank to queue up for a mythic dungeon, just to have other people leave as one does join, then the tank leaves soon after. Back to the wait.

[Makabreska]

were one trick ponies on zul, any other boss, you are wrong.

Because the history of cheesing game mechanics mean nothing, eh? Remeber ToS and stacking rouges to solo soak EVERYTHING? Rogue were doing it for YEARS, and it got rightfully nerfed. Enjoy being brought back in line.

Play a Windwalker for a bit and you will see all the stuff a Rogue brings. The only unique thing a WW has is a movement speed aura that people don't even pay attention to. Soloing the orb on G'Huun doesn't count. That's just one boss. lol

One boss that happens to be the final one of the raid.

[Deleted]

You don't have to stand in shit to make use of your defensives. Is this what you do? Maybe thats why noone takes you and now you feel as though noone wants rogues. By all means, go play something else if thats how you feel.

dont worry, i got a pretty safe spot in my guild raid rooster. but, id still wish that i had more utility, other than keeping myself alive and do decent dps. any decent player can manage that on any class.

[Vitinariy]

We have damage, good mobility and like the most survivability of any melee class. My question is - why bring any other melee?
Except 1 war, 1 DH and 1 monk that you need for buffs/debuffs.

[Kaver]

I'm really not sure if you are being serious, but in case you are, this is boss damage from our latest Uldir encounter (mythic Zul):

Haha I just knew that a Ret Pala was going to bring up Sub on mythic Zul

Can you find other fights than Zul where Rogues are able to do that?

[shaunika123]

Because the history of cheesing game mechanics mean nothing, eh? Remeber ToS and stacking rouges to solo soak EVERYTHING? Rogue were doing it for YEARS, and it got rightfully nerfed. Enjoy being brought back in line.



One boss that happens to be the final one of the raid.

you cant solo the orb in mythic on WW, so it doesnt even matter

- - - Updated - - -

Haha I just knew that a Ret Pala was going to bring up Sub on mythic Zul

Can you find other fights than Zul where Rogues are able to do that?

can you find any fight in the raid where any class other than rogues does that? :P

closest is 4 locks on ghuun being mandatory