Genuine Question: Why such a Want for 2-handed Frost?

[ONCHEhap]

Because this is what most people think of when they think Frost Death Knight:

That's an unholy death knight

[pay928]

Because this is what most people think of when they think Frost Death Knight:

Didn't Arthas pull frostmourne off of his belt in a wrath cinematic? Furthermore, a 2H would be as tall as him but it's wielded by one hand while he does magic death coils with his other. He's basically a dark battle mage. Can't find cinematic at work but came across https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/916831527.

[The Stormbringer]

Didn't Arthas pull frostmourne off of his belt in a wrath cinematic? Furthermore, a 2H would be as tall as him but it's wielded by one hand while he does magic death coils with his other. He's basically a dark battle mage. Can't find cinematic at work but came across https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/916831527.

Frostmourne is basically what they call a 'one and a half handed' sword. It can be used single-handed, but it can also be gripped with both hands (and has been in cinematics and the like) for better leverage and strength when needed.

[SirKickBan]

It's a thematic thing, for me personally. The Lich King is the iconic frost death knight, and Frostmourne is a two hander. It also fits the idea of a 'mighty glacier'.

In terms of playstyle, I don't feel like it matters that at the moment it would be similar to Arms. In the past they've been quite different, and Blizzard could bring back a number of things to differentiate them. Make KM procs matter again, for instance, or bring back two diseases and Plague Leech to let us eat them for extra runes. -I'd say they could come up with new ones, but I think we know how that would go.

That's an unholy death knight

He uses a mix of abilities in WC3, but he's always had a frosty theme to him. His tower is caked in ice. He summons a dragon out of ice. His attire is all blue. His abilities are either ones without visual effects, like his plagues (That frost used to have access to, ditto ghoul and army summons), or they're icy ones.

..Oh. And his weapon is turned into the frost artifact weapon(s).

He's a frost death knight.

[Makabreska]

You know why that looks cool?

Because that's Thassarian. And he's wielding TWO 2-handed swords.

So he is a Fury war aswell? These swords like like 1h to me.

[Kyriani]

I was aboard the DK train during WotLK up through MoP, then picked DK back up during BfA, so I experienced both versions of DW Frost and 2h Frost throughout the times.

Now, just personal opinion, I kind of disliked the 2h Frost incarnation as DPS in WotLK, but that's not the point of this thread.

What is the appeal of 2h Frost currently? I understand people have been wanting 2h Frost to make a come back for a while, but at least since WoD what is this mass resurgence?

Would it not play exactly as an Arms warrior currently?

- Obliterate and Mortal Strike: heavy hitter ability, both have cooldowns to wait for (runes regenerating or just static cooldown on MS)

- Frost Strike and Slam: filler until ready to use Obliterate/Mortal Strike

- Howling Blast and Rend: to put your DoT's up... although Howling Blast functions as spammable AoE, but you Arms has Whirlwind for that.

- Death Grip and Charge: distance closer, just functioning differently.

- Both specs can talent into additional damage cooldowns, AoE abilities, or even defensive abilities when the situation calls for it (PvE and PvP).

I suppose I'm missing something, but it comes off to me the appeal of 2h Frost is that of an Arms Warrior... without being an Arms Warrior.


Also, I'd like to note that I currently main Frost for BfA, if that is of any relevance to this piece.

For me it's just... I find it more satisfying to wreck something with a big two hander than using twp one handers. It's why I prefer arms over fury on warriors. There's also the convenience factor of only needing one weapon drop rather than two.

[Clash the DK]

It's a thematic thing, for me personally. The Lich King is the iconic frost death knight, and Frostmourne is a two hander. It also fits the idea of a 'mighty glacier'.

In terms of playstyle, I don't feel like it matters that at the moment it would be similar to Arms. In the past they've been quite different, and Blizzard could bring back a number of things to differentiate them. Make KM procs matter again, for instance, or bring back two diseases and Plague Leech to let us eat them for extra runes. -I'd say they could come up with new ones, but I think we know how that would go.

Considering Frost Fever is a completely passive mechanic, I would settle for one pro-active disease for Frost.

[Shadowater]

Because we had the choice before to choose between 2h and 1hs, just how fury had the option for titans grip and single-minded fury.
Even enhancement in tbc could choose between 2h or dual wield.
Choice is good.
I loved dual wielding as frost in wotlk, but that was because I was a frost tank so it was fun to have two tanking weapons for the stats.
Now though I really wish I could use a 2h as frost because I really don't like unholy at all, never have. and getting one 2h for blood and two 1h for frost is a pain now.

[Makabreska]

For me it's just... I find it more satisfying to wreck something with a big two hander. It's why I prefer arms over fury on warriors. There's also the convenience factor of only needing one weapon drop rather than two.

But what's better than one big 2h weapon if not two big 2h weapons?

[scoobysnacks]

I don't really care either way, but I can see their point. Obliterate is a name that belies being hit with incredible force, hence a two handed weapon thematically making more sense. Also, it's a pain to collect two separate weapons just for one spec when your other two can use the same one.

[Clash the DK]

So he is a Fury war aswell? These swords like like 1h to me.

Don't quote me on this, but I believe that Titan's Grip was originally intended for DKs.

Nevertheless, those are 2H swords: https://www.wowhead.com/item=27769/e...ger&bonus=4109

[Kyriani]

But what's better than one big 2h weapon if not two big 2h weapons?

Its... just different. Fury warriors feel a bit silly swinging an oversized weapon in each hand, while wielding a single oversized weapon with two hands really feels like you're putting your whole weight behind each blow. It's just a psychological thing. Wielding a single big weapon with two hands just "feels" more powerful to me.

[SirKickBan]

Didn't Arthas pull frostmourne off of his belt in a wrath cinematic? Furthermore, a 2H would be as tall as him but it's wielded by one hand while he does magic death coils with his other. He's basically a dark battle mage. Can't find cinematic at work but came across https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/916831527.

Two handed swords were worn on the hip. It's impossible, in real life, to draw a two handed sword from a scabbard on your back in a way that doesn't take ages or involve some kind of 'half scabbard' that would leave the blade open to all kinds of wear and tear.

It's funny, actually, watch any movie where the hero has a sword on their back. Wait for them to draw it, and you'll notice something: Every single time, they cut from the beginning of the draw, to something else, then back to find the sword already drawn, because the actors are in no way able to accomplish that ridiculous feat.

Anyways, the replica made of Frostmourne is 47" long, with 28" of that being blade. The typical two handed sword was 40" to 53" long, with anywhere from 33" to 42" of blade. Frostmourne is a much smaller sword, especially in terms of the blade. Despite that, however, it's presented in-game as something quite monstrous. Sized up beside the Lich King, it's hilt would rest just a little below his shoulder, or thereabouts, if its tip were on the ground, so it very much feels like a two handed sword, ingame.

Considering Frost Fever is a completely passive mechanic, I would settle for one pro-active disease for Frost.

I still remember the days when you'd have to use Outbreak, or spend your one allotted unholy rune (Until Blood Tap became meta, and its perma-bugged state soon made it OP, and you no longer had to keep one unholy rune around so that Runic Empowerment didn't screw you with a green instead of something useful) to keep up whatever the other disease was called (Names aren't my strong suite, okay?). ...Good times.

[Isaelyn]

..Oh. And his weapon is turned into the frost artifact weapon(s).

He's a frost death knight.

As someone who has played a death knight since wrath, I stand by the idea that the lich king is THE unholy death knight and that his weapon should have been the unholy artifact. Frostmourne's whole thing was raising the dead and ripping out souls and the lich king got stronger every time he raised new undead with frostmourne which is something frost DKs can't even do. In warcraft 3, Arthas, didn't even have frost abilites (And frostmourne itself for that matter, extending from it's inception onwards until it became the frost artifact, and even then it's frost ability was just calling in an air strike from an undead creature. )

Not that I don't like him having frost abilities. He has to be the quintessential death knight. He needs abilities from all three specs in the way Gul'dan needs to do things that all 3 warlocks specs can do. At the end of the day though being the lich king is unholy's fantasy. Frost's is... apparently being sin'dragosa judging by how dominate BoS has been the last few years. /notbitteroranything

Jokes aside, at the end of the day someone has to be the dual wield spec just like how when DKs got their dedicated tank spec someone had to be the tank and at the time blood DKs wanted it to be frost because "ice is hard". While the talents that propped up dual wield were VERY low in the frost tree, they were still frost talents. Given that the first viable dual wielding spec was a hybrid that went slightly deeper into unholy than frost I felt like unholy could have been just as appropriate as the dual wield spec, even thematically considering unholy frenzy, but I guess blizzard wanted to stick with where they stuck the DW talents and that build did rely pretty heavily on howling blast and icy touch for damage.

At the end of the day though I can sympathize with people wanting 2h frost. Everyone has this visual in their head for what their character is like when they create it and if you're one of the people who made their Dk when 2 handed frost was a thing or didn't create your DK envisioning them dual wielding it can do a lot of damage to your immersion and enjoyment to be told "No, you're doing this now". Imagine being a ret paladin and wanting to use greatswords and then one day being told that you can only use hammers now, or the people who liked ranged survival (though that is a more extreme example.) What it comes down to though I think is not wanting every spec in a class to have the same weapon profile and with fury warriors on titan's grip now there needs to be a dps spec that utilizes strength based one handed weapons.

( Speaking of weapons... Is there any reason now for them to not put weapons on the same shifting primary stat system they have on armor? I mean, what does the fixed primary stat serve Other than limited weapon type choices on healers and locking some melee classes out of getting certain weapon models off of personal loot? I guess primary stat on weapons keeps primary stat slightly relevant and if it wasn't fixed on something they could just merge strength, agility, and int into one stat...? )

[frogger237]

I think this looks cool enough

Looks like little kid blades. There is a reason that the most iconic badasses that wield weapons wield massive weapons instead of little daggers.

[Makabreska]

Looks like little kid blades. There is a reason that the most iconic badasses that wield weapons wield massive weapons instead of little daggers.

If these are swords you would give to a kid, then sure. However, WoW is not a jRPG, you don't see every character out there wielding massive weapons in one, flimsy hand.

[Xkiller9000]

Similar to glad stance for prot warrior, theres should be a talent in the final tier that causes your abilities to work off of a single weapon and higher % of weapon damage, so that you can play 2H if u wanted

[Unholyground]

how much cooler do you wanna get. isn't frost ...cool enough?

I think the main thing is, because both were in the game and options similar to fury being able to use 1h instead of 2h. Blizzard already has the tech in the game to allow the transmogrifying of one weapon type to another, Artifact weapons are proof of that.

- - - Updated - - -

That's an unholy death knight

Yes, he sits on the Frozen Throne wielding his sword Frostmourne atop of Icecrown Citadel in Icecrown which is a glacier in Northrend. Everything totally points to Unholy Death Knight.

On a non comedic note LK is all aspects at once if we are being real about it.

[Clone]

One word: Frostmourne.
Two words: Lich King.

So seven words...

[Dristereau]

Frost I would see more iconic as the 2H spec, when you think Death Knight you think Plate Wielder with a giant sword. Thematically it's cooler and makes more sense, and may actually put meaning back into Obliterate. I would rather play 2H Frost, I like to be Melee swinging a massive sword and taking chunks out of my opponent.