"They told me to pick and play class that I like most" The Dilemma with new players

[munchimunchi]

We always tell new players to pick and play the class they like most and stay with it even if the changes were bad , but they classes were picked before for raids and dungeons regardless of not being flavor of month, but now with BFA people refuse to pick shaman, feral druids to their runs, the class that you like and played since vanilla is benched the half of the expansion, the solution is pick another class is what most of u would suggest, most wouldn't like that, and prefer to stick to one main due to time commitment and real life, and wont bother to boost or power level new class.

Blizzard should as temporary solution give these classes the DERP buff most u of u call it, the one u get when u die from raid bosses after few minutes, this buff is cast on the lower tier and unwanted classes till they are wanted again.

Blizzard can add this DERP npc near dungeon and raids and lower tier dps, heals, tanks get buffs from them before they enter the raid or dungeon

[Mindark]

We always tell new players to pick and play the class they like most and stay with it even if the changes were bad , but they classes were picked before for raids and dungeons regardless of not being flavor of month, but now with BFA people refuse to pick shaman, feral druids to their runs, the class that you like and played since vanilla is benched the half of the expansion, the solution is pick another class is what most of u would suggest, most wouldn't like that, and prefer to stick to one main due to time commitment and real life, and wont bother to boost or power level new class.

Blizzard should as temporary solution give these classes the DERP buff most u of u call it, the one u get when u die from raid bosses after few minutes, this buff is cast on the lower tier and unwanted classes till they are wanted again.

Blizzard can add this DERP npc near dungeon and raids and lower tier dps, heals, tanks get buffs from them before they enter the raid or dungeon

All of our main shammies are still using their shammies. The problem here is not the class, it's the raid leaders benching them. Finding a new raid leader is easier than finding a new class.

[gushDH]

But they buffed the lower classes.

[spreckles]

One of the biggest issues I have seen over the past few years is this mentality of "if it's not the best, then it's trash" when it comes to specs/classes regardless of how they actually perform.

People hear that "X class/spec sucks" without knowing or understanding why and just assume it's bad forever until it gets overbuffed and becomes OP and the next round of "bad" classes/specs is announced.

[Alcsaar]

One of the biggest issues I have seen over the past few years is this mentality of "if it's not the best, then it's trash" when it comes to specs/classes regardless of how they actually perform.

People hear that "X class/spec sucks" without knowing or understanding why and just assume it's bad forever until it gets overbuffed and becomes OP and the next round of "bad" classes/specs is announced.

When the difference between bottom of the barrel and top tier is 10, 15, 20% damage, that is a serious problem. And that is how it currently is.

And yes, doing 20% less than the top performers is trash.

Then you look beyond the damage numbers. Some specs have aoe rotations that they have to manage/track like multidotting. Takes effort and then some mage/dh/rogue comes in and pushes 2 buttons and doubles your aoe dps. That isn't a fun experience either.

[Pua]

When the difference between bottom of the barrel and top tier is 10, 15, 20% damage, that is a serious problem.

Not really.

Remember, it only matters when you're talking about cutting edge content... That practically nobody actually plays. For the overwhelming majority, whatever their class is will perform just fine. In guilds that aim no more than heroic, those doing the best DPS are the ones who happen to be the best players. Their class doesn't matter.

The best example was when I was GM of a raiding guild back during Throne of Thunder. An Arms warrior called Finaplix joined, at a point when Arms was pretty garbage (I was one of the two tanks). When push came to shove, we recruited him because he was a blast to play with, was happy jumping in with commentary and advice, and never died in the fire. What was even more remarkable was that he was consistently top DPS, despite being a relatively weak spec and not being superlatively geared.

It turned out, he was a former Ensidia player that started in SK. He was a level above the rest of us, but enjoyed raiding in our guild because we didn't put him under any pressure, and he liked the way we dealt with loot and handled the group dynamic.

[fishoa]

But they buffed the lower classes.

I'm sure Elemental Shamans and Shadow Priests all over the world are grateful because that less than 1% buff in overall DPS is obviously a game changer.

[spreckles]

When the difference between bottom of the barrel and top tier is 10, 15, 20% damage, that is a serious problem. And that is how it currently is.

And yes, doing 20% less than the top performers is trash.

Then you look beyond the damage numbers. Some specs have aoe rotations that they have to manage/track like multidotting. Takes effort and then some mage/dh/rogue comes in and pushes 2 buttons and doubles your aoe dps. That isn't a fun experience either.

Sure, but I feel like a lot of that too has to deal with the encounters as well. Many encounters in Uldir just are not good, for, say, a fire mage. In my own raid group, we have a feral druid and an enhancement shaman that are consistently our top performers (even before their buffs). A part of this is that they are very, VERY, good at their class/spec and can play at a level that makes the overall strength of the class seem meaningless. I can guarantee that I could not play my guildies feral druid to the same level as he does.

But yes, I do agree that a 20% difference is a problem. I would not expect any more than, maybe 10% difference based on the encounter type; though some encounters certainly favour some classes more than others.

[Azure653]

The difference between the worst and the best has been made a lot smaller and is back to acceptable (at least in terms of WoW historically) levels. Let's look at the performance of each spec in heroic Uldir. While there is certainly more to spec balance than this, I think this is a fair way to get a good overview of how the specs are doing. Averaged across all of the bosses in the 90th percentiles, the highest is only 15.8% ahead of the lowest. At this point in Legion, the difference was something like 14.5%, and that was the lowest is had ever been. Druid, shaman, and priests certainly get shafted the most by having their DPS specs all in the bottom half, but the difference isn't that much, though it certainly needs to be lessened further.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Or you know raid with people who arnt dicks and make your own dungeon groups.

[Deleted]

Lol, this again, unless you are a mythic raider it hardly matters. It only matters in pvp where some classes have a much bigger skill floor (eg lock) and are unviable in some situations (eg lock in 2v2).

[Pete]

That sucks and does happen yet does not represent the entire demographic, but those who probably spent too much time observing the 0.01% involved in cutting edge progression content (as mentioned in above post) and have unrealistic expectations when it comes to emulating that type of gameplay themselves with their own raid.

In reality you want the guys that have seen all of the highs/lows with their class because you know after all this time they are still playing it because its what they like and are comfortable with.. their not going to suddenly bail mid-expansion because their favourite ability got nerfed because they have the level of experience/gameplay maturity to work the problem and not let it work them.

Like anybody can play any class.. but not everyone can play the same class well (even with the amount of guides out there) especially when you throw in dealing with weird mechanics as a tank/healer/ranged/melee and so on.

[Alcsaar]

Not really.

Remember, it only matters when you're talking about cutting edge content... That practically nobody actually plays. For the overwhelming majority, whatever their class is will perform just fine. In guilds that aim no more than heroic, those doing the best DPS are the ones who happen to be the best players. Their class doesn't matter.

The best example was when I was GM of a raiding guild back during Throne of Thunder. An Arms warrior called Finaplix joined, at a point when Arms was pretty garbage (I was one of the two tanks). When push came to shove, we recruited him because he was a blast to play with, was happy jumping in with commentary and advice, and never died in the fire. What was even more remarkable was that he was consistently top DPS, despite being a relatively weak spec and not being superlatively geared.

It turned out, he was a former Ensidia player that started in SK. He was a level above the rest of us, but enjoyed raiding in our guild because we didn't put him under any pressure, and he liked the way we dealt with loot and handled the group dynamic.

I'm sorry but I don't agree, 15-20% less damage even at not-cutting-edge progression is massive, and I don't think you're taking into account mythic+. Everyone wants to discuss balance around raiding, fine, but don't ignore the fact that a lot of people will do a lot more mythic+ than raiding, and for that it is MUCH more spec restrictive. Why take a class that does shitty aoe to a mythic+ where you need a ton of AoE to clear in time?

Also, just because you CAN take a friend even though they deal 10-15-20% less damage than most other people and pick up their slack doesn't mean the system is okay.

[Marrilaife]

We always tell new players to pick and play the class they like most

Yes, because at start you're a casual and what matters is you learn the basics of the game on a class you find fun. No one was born a world first player, it requires experience and practice. A lot of it.

and stay with it even if the changes were bad

Nope, no one says that. Everyone who asks "should I reroll" gets an answer "if you want", only problem is when they start asking "what should I reroll to". Do your own research, if you can't, you aren't hardcore enough for it to matter. Fotm changes, you want to chase it, chase it on your own.

the solution is pick another class is what most of u would suggest, most wouldn't like that, and prefer to stick to one main due to time commitment and real life, and wont bother to boost or power level new class.

I got 3 free boosts from Blizzard by just playing the game and buying the expansions as they come. You want a fresh start in a new expac, you think your old class sucks and the spec design went south? Use free boost.

Unfortunately most people are impatient and throw away these "free boosts" the moment they're granted instead of holding onto them when they really need them.

In 8.1 the 100 rep achievement will finally be cross character, so the last reason to "stick to 1 main forever" goes away. Every expansion or even major patch is a gear reset, professions got changed so you don't need old skill ranks to get to the new ones, it's easier than ever to swap a class.

Yes, I would love for every class and spec to be viable, but since they aren't, sometimes you just ditch a class that is in complete gutter until Blizzard fixes it. And no, you can't find that one spec that is always OP so you hit the bingo and are set for the next 10 years. Even the most historically competitive dps classes like rogues and mages can probably find that one patch where they were mediocre.

[Strakha]

if only blizzard picked math class

[Bangdingow]

This is true, the community has some of the responsibility to share for this but with the tremendous amount of pugging these days why wouldn't I pick a 970 Holy Priest over a 970 Resto Shaman? Why on gods earth would I take an equally geared Ele shaman over a mage? I don't owe either of these players anything so I'm going to take the player that gives me the best chance to clear the place. We have other tools like raider.io and warcraft logs but when the difference between the two classes is so big that an average frost mage out dpses a top ele shaman that reinforces the fact that I should take the mage because an average ele shaman will be well below the average mage.

Now from a guild's perspective. The new player likely doesn't have any social ties and doesn't really know people within the game. Why would any decent guild recruit an ele shaman right now to help them progress? it's different if they have some sort of relationship or know them from somewhere but that is not likely if the player is new.

I think most people understand that content outside cutting edge progression can be cleared with any spec but why bother? If you have access to an equally geared but better suited spec why waste time with the ele shamans and shadow priests of the world? Why take some random dude who's spec is 20% worse than the other random dude?

[McFuu]

We always tell new players to pick and play the class they like most and stay with it even if the changes were bad , but they classes were picked before for raids and dungeons regardless of not being flavor of month, but now with BFA people refuse to pick shaman, feral druids to their runs, the class that you like and played since vanilla is benched the half of the expansion, the solution is pick another class is what most of u would suggest, most wouldn't like that, and prefer to stick to one main due to time commitment and real life, and wont bother to boost or power level new class.

Blizzard should as temporary solution give these classes the DERP buff most u of u call it, the one u get when u die from raid bosses after few minutes, this buff is cast on the lower tier and unwanted classes till they are wanted again.

Blizzard can add this DERP npc near dungeon and raids and lower tier dps, heals, tanks get buffs from them before they enter the raid or dungeon

Most classes are really close to each other, Balance druid is probably the exception. But still, if you can't clear Normal and most of Heroic with whatever class you feel like playing, the problem isn't the class, it's the quality of the raid.

[Deleted]

New players can play whatever they want.
Also, it's funny how most people are complaining about the spec they play Bookin is not that bad, on heroic it's just below the middle of the pack.
But yeah ele and enh are both on the bottom 5 so yeah they can complain. Others like locks and mages can't really, since they still have other specs that are better. Remember, you're playing a class, not a spec.

[Kokolums]

There's no reason to bench a shaman or feral unless you are pushing Method for world first. Any raid leader doing so should be gkicked because such things are a great way to destroy guild morale for no reason.

[Polarthief]

Then you look beyond the damage numbers. Some specs have aoe rotations that they have to manage/track like multidotting. Takes effort and then some mage/dh/rogue comes in and pushes 2 buttons and doubles your aoe dps. That isn't a fun experience either.

When you specify Mage when Mages are pretty trash tier this raid, lol. Seriously, Mages aren't doing so hot atm either. Most casters aren't except Aff lock really.