[PTR] Alliance and Horde Darkshore questline SPOILERS

[Arrashi]

TBF, a lot of Blizz writers' decisions look like an asspull in BfA >_>

As I said in another now-deleted thread, it prob happens because in BfA for some reason Blizz writers apply the rule of cool too frivolously which ends up creating a lot of accidental minor or even major retcons, it also makes involved characters from both sides look like a bunch of literal retards.

I think that its more of the "too many cooks" isssue. I think that too many people work on story, and thats why it feels so segmented. This is prime example of left hand doesn't know what right one is doing. Hindu deity edition.

[TheFirstOnes]

Derek Proudmoore is a different person with different circumstances - everyone reacts to undeath differently, after all. Derek is more confused than anything, which is probably a result of how long he's been dead compared to Delaryn.



According to an Island Adventure quest from an island relating to the Vrykul, Helya is both not dead and apparently recovering in Helheim.

...That's...that's a retcon. I'm actually quite fucking pissed, now.

And about Derek, I mean, yeah, but...

You could literally say this about Delaryn and Sira as well.

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Happy thoughts and phat lootz? so sadly to answer your question honestly not much...

Even Helya's death lines suggested that she died in Hellheim. THAT'S HER FUCKING REALM!

"You cannot kill death"

Guess I didn't slay Argus' World Soul then, since he was the "Death Titan".

What utter garbage.

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Sounds like a Final Fantasy villain.

"The world is bad. I better destroy it myself so no more bad things happen."

That's Sargeras.

"The Universe is full of bad things, and dark tentacle bois. I better destroy the Universe so no more bad things happen".

[Arrashi]

I felt like it actually swept it more under the proverbial rug than expounding on it, for example: "We all have our reasons for accepting the val'kyr's gift of undeath. Now is not the time to discuss them." This doesn't seem like it is emphasizing free will - it seems more like they're actively not discussing it, possibly because they can't.

Just imagine Todd howards face under sira's helmet.

"It just works"

[bewbew]

Sylvanas murdered thousands of my people, but Elune/Tyrande didn't stop her, so now I'm going to help Sylvanas murder the rest of my people.

Jesus Christ.

I don't think that is just bad writing.

I've been saying there has to be some sort of mind control effect for being raised Undead for ages, despite the Forsaken Initial zone saying otherwise.

We have been witnessing people be killed by Forsaken, be raised and IMMEDIATLY turn coat against their former allies and fight for the Forsaken.

It's just becoming more obvious in this particular plot.

[ls-]

I think that its more of the "too many cooks" isssue. I think that too many people work on story, and thats why it feels so segmented. This is prime example of left hand doesn't know what right one is doing. Hindu deity edition.

Why not both? Too many "cooks" who are a bit too happy to use the rule of cool whenever they can :P

Somebody has to tell them that just because they can doesn't mean they should >_>

[Aucald]

Just imagine Todd howards face under sira's helmet.

"It just works"

That would probably be humorous if I knew who Todd Howard was beyond him being a developer at Bethesda. My meme-lore isn't the strongest, unfortunately.

[Harbour]

brainfart level of character writing i have witnessed

the only hope i have is that this is gonna be a Big Twist when it will turn out that all Forsaken including Sylvanas were secretly controlled by Lich King/Other Death Deity unnoticed. the simulation of free will, matrix, so to speak.

[Aucald]

...That's...that's a retcon. I'm actually quite fucking pissed, now.

Less a retcon and more of a development, I would say - but I don't really know what to think of it, either. On one hand, Helya's story-arc did seem pretty conclusively over; but on the other Helya was sort of already dead so killing her may not have produced the outcome we were hoping for (aside from releasing Odyn).

And about Derek, I mean, yeah, but...

You could literally say this about Delaryn and Sira as well.

Delaryn and Sira's reactions are different, they just arrive at the same basic outcome for the time being.

[BadguyNotBadGuy]

To give some credit to Delaryn, she died with pretty much the same thoughts she voices right when she comes back to life. It's Sira who immediately declares herself Forsaken 4 Lyfe. That and I'll buy an Anduin shirt if Delaryn doesn't end up betraying Sylvanas by the end of the expansion. The parallels are pretty obvious.

ill try my best to remember this and hold you to it :P

[Arrashi]

That would probably be humorous if I knew who Todd Howard was beyond him being a developer at Bethesda. My meme-lore isn't the strongest, unfortunately.

During one of presentation he said "It just works". Knowing how buggy bethesda games are it was ironically memorable.

[Verdugo]

That would probably be humorous if I knew who Todd Howard was beyond him being a developer at Bethesda. My meme-lore isn't the strongest, unfortunately.

Its basicaly his catchphrase made extremely funny when one looks at Bethesda open world games and their notorious amount of bugs.

[ls-]

That would probably be humorous if I knew who Todd Howard was beyond him being a developer at Bethesda. My meme-lore isn't the strongest, unfortunately.

When something makes no sense whatsoever, and you can't explain what's going on and why it's happening, just say "It just works". That's what Todd Howard did during E3 few years ago :P

[Aucald]

During one of presentation he said "It just works". Knowing how buggy bethesda games are it was ironically memorable.

Its basicaly his catchphrase made extremely funny when one looks at Bethesda open world games and their notorious amount of bugs.

When something makes no sense whatsoever, and you can't explain what's going on and why it's happening, just say "It just works". That's what Todd Howard did during E3 few years ago :P

Duly noted - I did see a lot of bugs in "Skyrim," so I can certainly see how that might be received.

[TheFirstOnes]

Less a retcon and more of a development, I would say - but I don't really know what to think of it, either. On one hand, Helya's story-arc did seem pretty conclusively over; but on the other Helya was sort of already dead so killing her may not have produced the outcome we were hoping for (aside from releasing Odyn).



Delaryn and Sira's reactions are different, they just arrive at the same basic outcome for the time being.

I feel as if Helya should've stayed Legion-only. But, that's just me.

[Thage]

Sylvanas murdered thousands of my people, but Elune/Tyrande didn't stop her, so now I'm going to help Sylvanas murder the rest of my people.

Jesus Christ.

Right? The writing in the faction war plot is so pants-on-head retarded it makes Rob Liefeld's work look like the collected works of Charles Dickens.

[exochaft]

Out of curiosity, didn't Blizz set up that when you get risen, the result is different for everyone? As an oversimplification from reading some of their works, some emotions remain or get amplified from when you were alive, some don't or may not be present anymore. I think it would be easy, from that standpoint, to explain away people's sudden shift in attitudes after becoming Forsaken. If you had some nagging doubts in the back of your mind, or maybe even potentially malicious or evil tendencies regardless of how minute they may be, becoming Forsaken may suppress whatever was holding you back from those doubts or conversely unleash the opposite. My guess would be the stronger your emotions that get amplified/suppressed, the more life-altering (pun intended) becoming a Forsaken may be. Not necessarily mind control in the classical sense since there's no implied intent behind it, but certainly not a race change with no side effects either.

[gcsmith]

Entirely possible, but the two things in tandem seem to speak to something more, in my view.

I think it's whatever spoke to Vol'jin, it wanted Sylvannas in power so I imagine it tortured their souls to encourage them to join sylvannas

[Aucald]

I feel as if Helya should've stayed Legion-only. But, that's just me.

I've long suspected the ramifications of Sylvanas' "deal" with Helya in Helheim weren't over with Legion, I just didn't expect Helya's character to come along for the ride so to speak. We'll have to see how it goes from here, though.

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I think all we did is distract her long enough for Odyn to break her spell.

They want to keep WoW around for quite a long while so they are setting up future arcs. Sure we have the future expansions about the Void. But we also have seen the set up for the future expansion against Yrel's Light Crusade and now we are seeing the set up for the Death forces that rival Void and Light.

I think this is likely - Helya may prove to be a more important part of the ongoing story than we think. Whether or not she is a major player or simply a powerful lieutenant of some other force remains to be seen.

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I think it's whatever spoke to Vol'jin, it wanted Sylvannas in power so I imagine it tortured their souls to encourage them to join sylvannas

That was my hypothesis as well - the two remaining powers that could influence Vol'jin not already addressed are N'Zoth and now possibly Helya. Given the Void's (and presumably N'Zoth's as a creature of the Void) opposition to Death it would seem to make him an unlikely proponent of Sylvanas, but now that Helya is a possibility and given her connection to the realm of Death I would see her as the best possibility. Having Sylvanas, who now owes Helya for her assistance, as Warchief of the Horde gives Helya a powerful proxy-force for whatever machinations she has in mind.

[EbaumsTipster]

I am actually of the opinion that Sylvanas is being influenced by, or possibly even serving as the oven-mitt of, a slowly recovering Helya. It goes far toward explaining some of her recent actions, and could also be a factor in what influenced Vol'jin as he was dying in Orgrimmar (as well as some of the beings recently raised by her forces).

Sylvanas has been corrupted by something evil in the Shadowlands since the end of Wrath.

[Aucald]

Sylvanas has been corrupted by something evil in the Shadowlands since the end of Wrath.

Possibly, but something has definitely changed around her ascension to Warchief of the Horde.