What ever happened to "Bring the player not the class"

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

Examles of what? Uniqueness or lack of it?

Examples of mop being more homogenized than now.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

It's better now. Like they even pointed out in the last Q&A, we're now freaking out over 2% DPS changes. Which is a huge step up from the days when some classes were just absolutely dumpstered and mages melted raid bosses.

But until there's 100% parity there will always be people who bring the class, not the player.

[korijenkins]

so basically people are forced to play something they dont like over something they enjoy just to be viable? I thought games were supposed to be fun. If literally no one will group with you because you enjoy Prot Warrior or Shaman then whats the point of even playing? Im having trouble finding a reason to log in every day because I main Shadow Priest, Shaman, and enjoy PvP with my DK. All of those are shit right now. So why should I be forced to play something else I dont enjoy? Obviously someone is going to come along and think they are cool and reply "No one is forcing you to play something else" Well actually they are. if I cant get groups based on the classes I enjoy playing then YES I am being forced to play something else. I mean I dont really enjoy sitting in Boralus all day long spamming group requests just to get denied based on my class.

Thats an issue with balance, not the game's design.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

Thats an issue with balance, not the game's design.

The removed 90% of the depth from classes the design i pretty terrible. Vanilla class in pvp have more depth than the live versions.

[Deleted]

Luckily they came to their senses and removed that horrible concept

Yeah, now we can have people rolling the same classes while peoples mains gather dust because they're not useful! Fantastic.

[Nnyco]

Link me a single 15+ Comp that isnt using any of the following Blood DK, DH, Rogue, Disc Priest and I will accept that Im wrong. Bnous points if its a Prot Warrior with a Resto Sham healing.

https://raider.io/mythic-plus/season...38-17-freehold

took me less than a minute to find

[MalfLFT]

Yeah, now we can have people rolling the same classes while peoples mains gather dust because they're not useful! Fantastic.

Mention a singel class(not specc) Class, that is actually not viable? Thats right, you cannot. For that matter, unless you are cutting edge every single specc is viable.

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Anyone who played back then knows, I will not waste my time finding the MoP class kits but its just factually true, if you have a hard time believing it, look it up. Every single class had some sort of buble, +2 mobility spells, +2 heals(even wars and shit) and the list goes on and on.

[Deleted]

Mention a singel class(not specc) Class, that is actually not viable? Thats right, you cannot. For that matter, unless you are cutting edge every single specc is viable.

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Anyone who played back then knows, I will not waste my time finding the MoP class kits but its just factually true, if you have a hard time believing it, look it up. Every single class had some sort of buble, +2 mobility spells, +2 heals(even wars and shit) and the list goes on and on.

Just speaking for my class alone let me know when you see someone that's pushing keys wanting a warrior over a fotm class like rogue. Some classes just don't have that utility. Warr has decent damage but you'd rarley take it when rogue can shroud etc.

[Lilly32]

https://raider.io/mythic-plus/season...38-17-freehold

took me less than a minute to find

yeah except Boomkin and Frost Mage are in pretty much 99% of any Mythic+ comp.

[sam86]

we are playing a MMORPG, what happened to it is blizz forgot what game genre this is

[Lilly32]

Mention a singel class(not specc) Class, that is actually not viable? Thats right, you cannot. For that matter, unless you are cutting edge every single specc is viable.

Fine its really not that hard.

All DK specs for PvP. Only 1% of ALL class 2200 or better are DKs.
https://www.arenamate.net/?region=&r...r=3v3&faction=

FoR PvE its even easier. MM Hunters, SPriests, Ele Shaman, Demo Locks, are all garbage.

[D3athsting]

we are playing a MMORPG, what happened to it is blizz forgot what game genre this is

Not really a mmorpg anymore, you log in into a lobby, open lfg window and search for instanced content, that's it...

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Not really a mmorpg anymore, you log in into a lobby, open lfg window and search for instanced content, that's it...

Well that's an oversimplification, and false.

Still massively (to the tune of millions), multiplayer (in that you can find, interact, buy/sell, and chat with other players), online (self-explanitory), Role-Playing Game ("a game in which players take on the roles of imaginary characters who engage in adventures, typically in a particular computerized fantasy setting overseen by a referee").

[Shelly]

Ion a while back stated that Bring The Player, Not The Class" is their broad ethos for the game. They want every class to be both viable and approachable for the vast majority of content.

However when it comes to the bleeding edge content, at that point they have no problem with class stacking and "mandatory" classes.

Rather what they do is attempt to design multiple fights where you might want to do class stacking, but that class stacking of a single type (say all rogues) isn't viable for the entire raid.

So while you might have a fight that is made much simpler with 5 frost mages and 4 rogues the next fight would favor something like making sure you have at least 2 boomkin.

Class stacking is an expected behavior at the highest levels of the game, oh which 10+ Mythic keys are considered a part.

And again, all the classes are viable, some are just better able to deal with the encounters than others.

[Kyphael]

"Bring the player and the class" is much better.

Yep. Then we have class distinction and skill-merited gaming community. Imagine that, a concept long lost on Blizzard since 2012.

[MalfLFT]

Warr have excellent dmg and are often desired in M+, sure some classes are prefered over others but you cannot have interesting, unique classes with no balancing differences. Every class is viable and that is what matters, if you ahve trouble finding a group, make your own. Easy.

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Fine its really not that hard.

All DK specs for PvP. Only 1% of ALL class 2200 or better are DKs.
https://www.arenamate.net/?region=&r...r=3v3&faction=

FoR PvE its even easier. MM Hunters, SPriests, Ele Shaman, Demo Locks, are all garbage.

What part of (NOT specc) CLASS do you find hard to understand? No matter what you cannot have 36 equally viable speccs but every single class is viable. Both dk dps speccs are fine for pvp, especially unholy, they do nuts dmg but sure its not top of the chain.

Hunters have 2 very good speccs for pve, priests are viable on all 3 speccs, but I'll give you that shadow is not ideal for m+ but still fine. Ele shaman is also decently viable and if you if make your own groups you won't have a hard time hitting +10s with any of those you mentioned.

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Well that's an oversimplification, and false.

Still massively (to the tune of millions), multiplayer (in that you can find, interact, buy/sell, and chat with other players), online (self-explanitory), Role-Playing Game ("a game in which players take on the roles of imaginary characters who engage in adventures, typically in a particular computerized fantasy setting overseen by a referee").

So facebook is an MMORPG in your world basically?

[Thelyron]

Jesus, There is still not a single class that is unviable. Back when they used to try and bring the player, every single class was literally the same but with different skins, everyone had a version of the same ability it was so shit. Now most Classes at least have a unique feel to it.

How is it even possible to be this wrong?

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Warr have excellent dmg and are often desired in M+, sure some classes are prefered over others but you cannot have interesting, unique classes with no balancing differences. Every class is viable and that is what matters, if you ahve trouble finding a group, make your own. Easy.

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What part of (NOT specc) CLASS do you find hard to understand? No matter what you cannot have 36 equally viable speccs but every single class is viable. Both dk dps speccs are fine for pvp, especially unholy, they do nuts dmg but sure its not top of the chain.

Hunters have 2 very good speccs for pve, priests are viable on all 3 speccs, but I'll give you that shadow is not ideal for m+ but still fine. Ele shaman is also decently viable and if you if make your own groups you won't have a hard time hitting +10s with any of those you mentioned.

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So facebook is an MMORPG in your world basically?

"a game in which players take on the roles of imaginary characters who engage in adventures, typically in a particular computerized fantasy setting overseen by a referee"

No.

Could also wiffle on how multiplayer requires that one be a player of a game. Which Facebook isn't.

[Borfl]

Bring the player not the class was never meant to be taken in the literal sense and especially not true when it comes to pugging. Meta will always form and people, especially pugs, will build around it because its a common and proven method that works. You can definitely find arms/ret/frost DK in +15 keys, hell there's probably a few dedicated kittys, except they most likely run them with a dedicated group.

Pugs on the otherhand are pretty much only going to take frost mage/bm hunter and as for melee its usually rogues for shroud skips. I don't take WW/Havoc/arms/ret/frost DK when my group needs to pug mostly because pug melees tend to die to stupid shit and do awful DPS anyway; its not worth the risk. I usually just get a bm hunter because while frost mage can be good there's a chance they're just shitters whereas BM hunter has such a low skill floor/ceiling with good utility and never has to worry about getting punished by mechanics that you can't fuck it up unless you're actually <100IQ. Boomys can be amazing but they also have to be good and know exactly what they're doing to be valuable except most pugs aren't so I don't really bother taking chances with them.

Your spec isn't meta so deal with it, find guild, form your own dedicated group, or quit

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

That was a practice Tom Chilton's team put into effect, and Ion seemingly disagrees it was for the best for the game.

I would tend to agree, because things got super homogenized and specs lacked flavor.

Now, in today's product we have much better class diversity. Even though that's the case, its obviously led to imbalance within some parts of the meta, but even that I feel is healthy for the game as long it continues to be iterated upon and balanced as well as it can be.