Hope they leave Survival alone all expansion

[Deleted]

As one of the very small minority that actually raids mythic as SV, I don't think the ranged abilities have much to do with it becoming slightly more popular. A lot of damage comes from mongoose bite/raptor strike, melee, pet (who is melee range).

The spec is a lot easier than legion, the clunkyness has been removed and its now in line with a lot more other classes in the amount of buttons they press, its not a bad thing, you still have to be in melee range for the spec to function properly.

People who want to be melee and have a guild willing to take a melee hunter are playing it. The raids aren't super melee friendly, haven't been melee friendly for a while so getting a spot somewhere as this can be difficult. SV doesn't bring anything that other melees can't do, slightly higher sustained single target dps isn't good enough.

I loved the MoP sv, my love for ranged specs has diminished since that expansion though so I'm slightly biased towards it staying a melee spec - it does need some QoL/talent tweaks though. Things like 2 charges of bomb and wilderness survival being baseline instead of an azerite. Butchery being meh without the artifact weapon, wildfire infusion almost feels mandatory for myself personally with the tiny increase in complexity.

And finally, I'd love some type of addition to sv to make it more wanted in raids and separate the spec from its BM overlord. raid wide aspect of the cheetah? Aspect of the eagle raid wide? aspect of the fox reintroduced?

[NutellaCrepe]

Survival after BfA is mostly ranged mechanics with only a couple melee-only ones. Decisive shift towards ranged.

Proof that FpicEail doesn't know what he is talking about yall. We did it.

[Devilyaki]

hope they make it range again.

[Happyducky]

hope they make it range again.

You already posted that in this exact thread.

[Dadwen]

hope they make it range again.

Ditto.

(MOP SV rocked, but I loved playing it since Wrath.)

[jimmy valmer]

You're right, whenever I spec into survival the game crashes.

Oh I thought i was the only one with that problem.

[Bepples]

Proof that FpicEail doesn't know what he is talking about yall. We did it.

Are we seriously going to go through this whole circuit again?

Core SV rotation.

Ranged mechanics:

- Serpent Sting
- Wildfire Bomb
- Kill Command

Melee abilities:

- Raptor Strike
- Carve (AoE only)

Compare it to Legion. Both in raw ability count and damage output in encounters ranged has a greater share in BfA, i.e. shift towards ranged.

[NutellaCrepe]

Are we seriously going to go through this whole circuit again?

Core SV rotation.

Ranged mechanics:

- Serpent Sting
- Wildfire Bomb
- Kill Command

Melee abilities:

- Raptor Strike
- Carve (AoE only)

Compare it to Legion. Both in raw ability count and damage output in encounters ranged has a greater share in BfA, i.e. shift towards ranged.

Let's compare your baseless claims as someone who clearly does not play the spec:

Survival after BfA is mostly ranged mechanics with only a couple melee-only ones. Decisive shift towards ranged.

Vs. a renown guide maker for all 3 hunter specs.

2. Patch 8.0.1 Changes for Survival Hunter
Before anything else, it is worth noting that Survival is still a melee spec and there is no way to do competitive damage purely from range.

Source: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/surviv...-pve-dps-guide

Surv is a melee spec with range components akin to Unholy DKs. As I said before and you failed to counter.

Keep digging your grave, the community will dance on it.

[Doffen]

Are we seriously going to go through this whole circuit again?

Core SV rotation.

Ranged mechanics:

- Serpent Sting
- Wildfire Bomb
- Kill Command

Melee abilities:

- Raptor Strike
- Carve (AoE only)

Compare it to Legion. Both in raw ability count and damage output in encounters ranged has a greater share in BfA, i.e. shift towards ranged.

So by your definition, outlaw rogue is a ranged spec. I mean, it can even talent the melee attacks into being at ranged. I am really looking forward for your answer.

[Bepples]

Let's compare your baseless claims as someone who clearly does not play the spec:



Vs. a renown guide maker for all 3 hunter specs.



Source: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/surviv...-pve-dps-guide

Surv is a melee spec with range components akin to Unholy DKs. As I said before and you failed to counter.

Keep digging your grave, the community will dance on it.

So by your definition, outlaw rogue is a ranged spec. I mean, it can even talent the melee attacks into being at ranged. I am really looking forward for your answer.

Man, you people are really tripling down on that strawman argument, aren't you?

Let me re-iterate for the trillionth time:

At no point did I claim that Survival is a ranged spec.

Here, I'll repeat it a few more times so hopefully you won't miss it.

At no point did I claim that Survival is a ranged spec.
At no point did I claim that Survival is a ranged spec.
At no point did I claim that Survival is a ranged spec.

Go over it a few times until it sinks in.

What I am claiming is that there was a shift towards ranged. That means the spec was mostly composed of melee mechanics before 8.0, but then after 8.0 there was a bigger proportion of ranged mechanics. Which is absolutely, objectively, and irrefutably true.

Again, that doesn't mean Survival is ranged.

It DOES mean there was a compromise towards ranged gameplay.

It's actually astounding to me that you two can repeatedly and consistently post rebuttals to an argument that isn't even in the text you're quoting. You know everyone else can read those quotes, right? And anyone who does actually have any reading comprehension can quickly determine that you are both making a pathetic attempt to put words in my mouth. How out of it do you have to be to think this will work? Is it just bad reading comprehension or are you not posting in good faith? Please try to be honest when answering that one.

[Unholyground]

It’s not too hard and gives nice variety.
I have to admit I strongly prefer to combine it with Guerilla Tactics as that allows more flexibility with the cooldown. E.g. you can sit on 1 charge for a few seconds to get optimal use out of the bomb.
Red = dump focus first
Blue = get 70+ focus so you can pump 3 RS/MB fast
Green = preferably when SS duration gets low (but this is more flexible)

The way it should work was the feedback I gave throughout Alpha and Beta, the last ability you use should que up the corresponding color instead of sequencing the bomb infusions, so you raptor strike/mongoose bite it becomes blue, you use serpent sting it becomes green, or you use kill command and it becomes red. The way they have it now restricts you and gives you no freedom to set up rotations based on your situation.

[The7]

Melee Survival is the most fun hunters have been in years, I hope Blizzard keep it that way.

[Cylash]

The way it should work was the feedback I gave throughout Alpha and Beta, the last ability you use should que up the corresponding color instead of sequencing the bomb infusions, so you raptor strike/mongoose bite it becomes blue, you use serpent sting it becomes green, or you use kill command and it becomes red. The way they have it now restricts you and gives you no freedom to set up rotations based on your situation.

That is a really bad solution. You never open with mongoose bite when it is blue. You fill your focus bar with kill command first then use blue to make sure you get 3 stacks of the bleed. If you just used serpent sting you do not need the reset on the duration right away so you would never get the duration reset unless you do not use any other abilities. If you want to use red you do not want Kill command to be on CD during the duration because it only resets if you use it during the bomb duration.

[Unholyground]

That is a really bad solution. You never open with mongoose bite when it is blue. You fill your focus bar with kill command first then use blue to make sure you get 3 stacks of the bleed. If you just used serpent sting you do not need the reset on the duration right away so you would never get the duration reset unless you do not use any other abilities. If you want to use red you do not want Kill command to be on CD during the duration because it only resets if you use it during the bomb duration.

You would still gain more DPS "wasting" one of those abilities to set it up in the end I guarantee it but you might be right, maybe have certain ones make the others active instead so it is more smooth but the idea itself is sound, the only other solution is give us 3 versions of the bomb and we can pick the one we want at any given time, it is not like we have that many abilities that it would fill our bars up haha.

[Projectmars]

Survival was a popular ranged spec.

Popular at being a joke about how it was MM lite, maybe.

[Naked Snake]

Hated the spec in Legion but now it's a lot of fun.

[NutellaCrepe]

Man, you people are really tripling down on that strawman argument, aren't you?

Let me re-iterate for the trillionth time:

At no point did I claim that Survival is a ranged spec.

Here, I'll repeat it a few more times so hopefully you won't miss it.

At no point did I claim that Survival is a ranged spec.
At no point did I claim that Survival is a ranged spec.
At no point did I claim that Survival is a ranged spec.

Go over it a few times until it sinks in.

What I am claiming is that there was a shift towards ranged. That means the spec was mostly composed of melee mechanics before 8.0, but then after 8.0 there was a bigger proportion of ranged mechanics. Which is absolutely, objectively, and irrefutably true.

Again, that doesn't mean Survival is ranged.

It DOES mean there was a compromise towards ranged gameplay.

It's actually astounding to me that you two can repeatedly and consistently post rebuttals to an argument that isn't even in the text you're quoting. You know everyone else can read those quotes, right? And anyone who does actually have any reading comprehension can quickly determine that you are both making a pathetic attempt to put words in my mouth. How out of it do you have to be to think this will work? Is it just bad reading comprehension or are you not posting in good faith? Please try to be honest when answering that one.

Frame it as you will, it was a slight tweak towards creating a comprehensive spec. It does not mean that the spec is shifting towards a range spec. It's still a melee spec with range capabilities. It's just revamped to have some coherence and an actual rotation.

They perfected the melee spec so that it can remain a melee spec. If Blizz had planned to revamp the spec and make it a full blown range spec, they wouldn't have wasted the time and resources to create new skills and rotations within the melee spec.

We can see that you are getting agitated and are clearly gasping at straws at this point. Just learn to deal with the fact that Survival is hunter's Melee spec and it is here to stay, whether you like it or not.

[Bheleu]

Popular at being a joke about how it was MM lite, maybe.

Take a look at https://www.worldofwargraphs.com/pve...classes/hunter. Judge for yourself how popular SV was and is.

[Doffen]

Man, you people are really tripling down on that strawman argument, aren't you?

Let me re-iterate for the trillionth time:

At no point did I claim that Survival is a ranged spec.

Here, I'll repeat it a few more times so hopefully you won't miss it.

At no point did I claim that Survival is a ranged spec.
At no point did I claim that Survival is a ranged spec.
At no point did I claim that Survival is a ranged spec.

Go over it a few times until it sinks in.

What I am claiming is that there was a shift towards ranged. That means the spec was mostly composed of melee mechanics before 8.0, but then after 8.0 there was a bigger proportion of ranged mechanics. Which is absolutely, objectively, and irrefutably true.

Again, that doesn't mean Survival is ranged.

It DOES mean there was a compromise towards ranged gameplay.

It's actually astounding to me that you two can repeatedly and consistently post rebuttals to an argument that isn't even in the text you're quoting. You know everyone else can read those quotes, right? And anyone who does actually have any reading comprehension can quickly determine that you are both making a pathetic attempt to put words in my mouth. How out of it do you have to be to think this will work? Is it just bad reading comprehension or are you not posting in good faith? Please try to be honest when answering that one.

Ah yes, "I don't want to answer because saying the truth makes all my point worthless." It was just a question. But I can see why you don't want respond properly.

It's easy: Survival in Legion faceplanted so they remade it to have a lot more ranged capabilities in a bid to rebuild its standing with the Hunter playerbase. i.e. They used ranged mechanics to bail out melee SV, including one of ranged SV's old signature mechanics.

"Bail out melee SV". Yeah, not said that at all right. And that is just one example. I bet there is 10 more in this thread alone.

So much text, and it all ended up as a strawman(maybe stop accusing others for it). You have gloriously said that survival is shifting more towards ranged indeed, but we have said it's still a melee-spec. But you refuse to acknowledge that because the legion version "failed" as being "pure melee"(it wasn't then either). It got changed to flow better. Not to cater to people who wants it back as ranged.

So outlaw is a spec made towards being ranged then? Is that a better question? You know Outlaw got bigger portion of their damage coming from ranged attacks that survival right? So Outlaw is going more towards ranged? Please answer the question without dodging it with 6-8 paragraph responses. Please be honest. If you say no, then we are indeed agreeing. If you say yes, then I feel sorry for you.

What I am claiming is that there was a shift towards ranged. That means the spec was mostly composed of melee mechanics before 8.0, but then after 8.0 there was a bigger proportion of ranged mechanics. Which is absolutely, objectively, and irrefutably true.

You have repeatedly said that survival had a shift towards being ranged you said. And you are still saying it's becoming more and more of a ranged spec, since the melee version failed in Legion. So tell me how the top logs on bosses in Uldir got 75-90% (depending of talents) of the damage output from melee-abilities? No?

Please, please be honest.

[Jibjub]

I never played hunter. I am enjoying the hell out of SV. I love the hybrid nature of it. If I had just one wish, it would be a longer range on Harpoon. If I had two wishes, bombs wouldn't be a cone (that's not how explosions generally work). If I had a third wish, it would be flanking strike being baseline (a second form of focus-gain would be aces).