Are no realistic alternative MMO's to blame?

[Unholyground]

No, you can't. And there not only dps addons. But yeah, GL HF to track dots with the standard AI.
And BM is SO easy to play than you can't keep your haste debuff unless you use a WA/Quartz/Whatever timer... It's not possible to track it with the tiny "buff" icon... And if you don't care about that dot timers, you just suck.

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Hahahahahaha "its too easy for me so I don't do it". Ultimate trolling at its finest.

It is not that I would not, it just no longer interests me getting the best of the best gear and having it replaced by world quests a few months later, Wrath was the last time I raided seriously and I saw the pointlessness of it all.

[melodramocracy]

It was treated as a meme child because the developers was idiots from day 1. The whole "We bringing back the hardcore MMO for the hardware player" was a really stupid idea. On top of that the game itself was a broken mess for a long time.

It wasn't a stupid idea, it was a poor execution. At its fundemental level, Wildstar didn't feel very fun to play, and a more casual approach wouldn't have helped much.

Curiously, I wonder how many authentic open world MMORPG's are left, now that AC was shut down last year. Black Desert and WoW are the only 2 I can think of (and even Warcraft unfortunately has an increasing amount of load screen action between islands / continents.

[vashe9]

Why create a vast, immersive MMO that has a high chance of failure when you can make a game like Fortnight or Overwatch or LoL, where you can put minimal effort into designing the game and put your full creative focus on making lucrative skins and lootboxes?

/thread

Thank smartphones, bad parents and angry kids ! Some bad parents use fortnite as previous generation used television

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It is not that I would not, it just no longer interests me getting the best of the best gear and having it replaced by world quests a few months later, Wrath was the last time I raided seriously and I saw the pointlessness of it all.

Stop mmo then, because I've spend litterally 2 years farming Vanilla stuff that I vendored the first day of BC.
You were serious in wrath ? Like LK normal mode ?
You couldn't have killed LK 25 (or even 10) HM without any addon.

[Gaexion Ramza Beoulve]

I get what you're trying to say, regardless of where you land on the quality of current wow-lack of competition(serious competition) has led to stagnation.

Keep in mind what a behemoth WoW and Blizzard are. When WoW was announced people knew it was going to be big because Blizzard was very successful at the time.(and still is)

But that doesn't mean you can blame other MMOs. Most companies don't have the resources needed to run a game like wow. They have to invest a certain amount of money to cross the threshold into profitable MMO category.

All you have to do is look at ambitious projects like Wildstar who marketed themselves as a more WoW than WoW(a return to vanilla if you will)but ultimately ended up failing.

[Wrangle123]

Well, not having any better option is probably true, but it's quite contradictory to claim that Blizzard is just lazy and arrogant. WoW would not be the best MMO if Blizzard was lazy.

It's impossible to avoid getting negative press. Every new expansion is required to do some changes to spice up the game, to avoid the game becoming stale. If you happen to dislike some of them (like the Azerite) well too bad, it's literally impossible for them to throw out all the time and effort spent into making that system and magically make a new better one by snapping their fingers. Chances are that rushing to replace it will end up worse, so instead of overreacting to bad press, their response on how to fix issues is to calmly observe what's going on and make small modifications that won't break their plans. Keeping their bad choices is not lazy, it's constrained by the reality that programming the game takes time and effort.

There's also a wide variety of different people playing the game, which makes it impossible to please everyone. Something you like will annoy someone else and vice-versa. It's funny how there's always someone complaining no matter what it is that comes out. People cry unsub at all sort of dumb shit like store mounts.

Personally and I stress personally, I do not agree with your second paragraph. Its not "too bad" that I don't like the azurite system (just one example I gave) as you can see from blizzards own responses and the many QA's and the band aid fixes that they have implemented what could have been a really interesting system has been implemented awfully - these are their words not mine.

Of course it takes time but we are not talking about a small indie company we are talking about an absolute monster that is Blizzard entertainment.

I agree there is a variety of people who cry and moan over the simplest things I agree with you and my answer is let them unsub and go if they cry over a store mount.

Blizzard said they want gear to be rewarding , but when you get a 385 mythic shoulder that is a dps loss because of awful traits over a 340 then for me its not acceptable.

Neither is it really acceptable to hammer OP traits and practically force you to keep all your azerite gear in case they nerf your bis perfoming ones and buff the hell out of others.

I mean I have like 4-6 azerite of every slot in bank - its kind of madness the disparity of some traits over others - how they ever though they could balance this on top of every mathematical combination of gear and traits is beyond me !

Bit off topic but anyway

[Unholyground]

/thread

Thank smartphones, bad parents and angry kids ! Some bad parents use fortnite as previous generation used television

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Stop mmo then, because I've spend litterally 2 years farming Vanilla stuff that I vendored the first day of BC.
You were serious in wrath ? Like LK normal mode ?
You couldn't have killed LK 25 (or even 10) HM without any addon.

Actually in GW2 for example your stuff is NEVER replaced by new content outside of maybe new stats for the specializations they add, a legendary from 5 years ago is still 100% relevant today. WoW just needs to stop increasing the item level and player level and find more interesting progression methods.

[Barnabas]

Hey

<Can't remember my log in for my normal mmo champ account so had to make a new>

As a WoW addict since TBC I've always read the mmo champion forums to see if people have similar views to myself.

Every day its practically the same discussions about the state of BFA (good or bad depending on your point of view) - personally i'm in the "bad" camp for reasons that have already been stated by people on here a million times

For me the reason I play WoW and continue to sub despite all the issues that I think are pretty awful is simple (1) I love MMO's (the whole concept) (2) I have over the years built up many friends and such in game

My main reason for posting is do others think that the lack of competition in the mmo market allowed blizzard to become somewhat lazy and arrogant with WoW?

Yes there FF and ESO etc but in the west / Europe its still all about WoW and has been since like forever.

Blizzard know people still love MMO's - they know people are tightly connected with people they have gamed with for 10+ years and will continue to sub to play together - has this made them less bothered with negative press and obvious issues in game - yes Azerite I am looking at you at the moment.

Every good business is pushed to improve by having healthy competition to ensure they continue to provide the best product on the market - else they lose revenue / crash / burn / die. WoW has no real competitors - they have seen them all off , they have been killed off by the WoW behemoth.

If WoW had serious active competition for its player base - do you think we would have BFA in the state its in ? - My opinion on BFA personally I know some people think its great of course that's fine its all about opinion at the end of the day.

It's not any lack of competition. It's just the majority of people that quit wow play another blizzard game instead. So the company doesn't really lose anything in the process.

[riptal]

Many have tried since 2005! Wow is still the best at it! No matter what you think about BFA no other mmos came close to the quality of Wow year after year. Now, Wow is too big and people have invest too much in it that there's no room for another game of this kind.

[Ztranger]

I don't even use add-ons and I do just fine end game, you have to be pretty brain dead to need add-ons in WoW.

Doing mythic raiding without addons?

[Unholyground]

Doing mythic raiding without addons?

Why would I waste my time? Like I said previously everything is replaced within a short time span the effort to put in to have it all be meaningless in such a short time is a waste of effort unless Blizzard is going to pay me to be a high end raider.

[Tuhokoura]

That's because people are more scared of each other and more cynical. Not because the options to be social are gone.

This is what i mean. It feels like an SP with MP options rather than MMO. This happened when sharding, and other realm connection crap was introduced. You really have no reputation anymore, you can be an ass or a community hero and no one remembers you = SP. Some people may add you as a friend or you join a guild = MP. But MMO? nope.

[burzian]

It's not any lack of competition. It's just the majority of people that quit wow play another blizzard game instead. So the company doesn't really lose anything in the process.

Would it be fair to say they play other Blizzard game because... there are no other competitive MMOs?

For the OP, I think this definitely has something to do with it. Speaking as someone who's been playing MMOs for almost 20 years at this point, I would gladly give up WoW for an MMO with better systems and even 75% of the polish. WoW is by far the highest-quality MMO and even though I think the systems they use now have destroyed a big part of the fun, it's still so much better than the other options for me.

MMO people are MMO people, and they're going to play the one that's available that they like most. The fact that nothing really challenges WoW in terms of quality or playerbase is a big reason I'm still playing. Anecdotal, but I think it's true for a lot of people.

[Vynestra]

No, I don't think BfA would be as garbage if WoW had competition. Competition breeds excellence, and we can practically see how cocky and apathetic the developers of WoW have gotten in the class design and the Q&As.

I think the biggest problem is that almost every MMORPG released has tried to follow the formula created by WoW, and people might want something different than WoW.

This is true - legion was great because they ruined everything with wod, then bfa came around and they're coming off their legion high, and wow is that a far fall.

Next xpac will be like legion in the sense they'll bring out the stops again I assume.

[Torrasque]

WoW is not really an MMO anymore. More like SP/Coop with MP options.

That only works if you are selectively and intentionally not trying to group with people. It is still an MMO, just because you have solo OPTIONS available to gear up doesn't denote that it isn't an MMO.

[Daedius]

WoW is to blame for the lack of competition, and as such makes WoW its own enemy where Blizzard becomes complacent.

That, and the fact making an MMO is expensive and risky, what with the popularity of MMOs dwindling in favour of more gratifying games that doesn't require time commitment.

[Playintrafic]

Add-ons don't change the difficulty of the game. They just change the garbage lame ass interface.

Blizzard has been very proactive about breaking ezmode add-ons.

[ParanoiD84]

Some mmo's does things much much better then wow like leveling in Guild Wars 2 with events all over the place and a much more living world.

[Shakou]

Actually in GW2 for example your stuff is NEVER replaced by new content outside of maybe new stats for the specializations they add, a legendary from 5 years ago is still 100% relevant today. WoW just needs to stop increasing the item level and player level and find more interesting progression methods.

This of course explains why so many people are playing GW2. Oh wait...

[Gungnir]

That's because people are more scared of each other and more cynical. Not because the options to be social are gone.

Not really, it's mainly because the game gives you so many options to completely avoid social interaction that it's just basic human psychology making it so the game is basically single player at this point.
Effort versus reward, when you get the same reward but can choose to expend extra effort to interact, people will just always choose to shut up and do the 5 minute dungeon and then be off because you will never see those people ever again.

That's just how human psyche works, ESPECIALLY now since it's catering towards the people that play an hour a day and expect to have maximum progress out of it. Everything is fast, uninvolving and QoL for that playerbase. This is just how WoW is nowadays, and it's not going to change.

[Unholyground]

This of course explains why so many people are playing GW2. Oh wait...

Tons of people still pay it lol, I play both and I love WoW but end game is pointless when all the lore is data-mined and I know it all ahead of time. There is 0 reason to raid is what I am trying to get at, and that is Blizzards fault in the end and always has been.