Uldir is one of the worst raids that this game has seen so far.

[Onikaroshi]

That's still not the point. The point is that following the mechanic actually punishes you if you happen to have the right specs in the raid.

Imagine if on, say, Zul... there was a specific spec you could bring that changed the encounter's rules, making it so that letting the Bloods reach Zul actually damaged him, instead of healing him.

True, they could have just made it so healing debuffs didn't affect the boss or something.... not only would it solve that issue, it would make it better for groups that don't have them.

[Seramore]

What was even wrong with EN except "Xavius was way too easy"? I mean the remaining bosses were decent, I'd add one more exception is the stupid oversight that allowed Ilgynoth to be 1-phased and was hotfixed post 1st kill, generally "post 1st kill hotfixes" means you're using top guilds as your unpaid testers, but tbh that's the Blizzard's quality we have to live with, bosses that had to be hotfixed shortly after going live have a long list since then: Odyn, Helya, Star Augur, Elisande, Mistress Saszine, Fallen Avatar, Kiljaeden, Varimathras, Argus, Mother, Fetid... All of these weren't "nerf months later to make boss easier" but rather "nerfs to fix blatant bugs, broken mechanics or extra cheese strats".

Emerald Nightmare also suffered from "same-ish visuals on every boss" but so did Firelands and people claim it was a good raid.

Emerald Nightmare also existed in the world where dps specs had massive imbalance swings due to access / lack of access to top legendaries between different players, yet much fewer classes / specs were perma bench material (only dk / shamans afaik as compared to Uldir where it's shamans of all 3 specs, shadow, feral, ret). Also while warrior tank was OP, it got swiftly nerfed, while so far no brewmaster nerf in sight despite as someone gracefully said on wowhead "I could play with 1 hand only press ironskin and keg smash and still tank mythic ok", and he's probably and unfortunately right.

Kazuchika isn't really known on this forum for having the best opinions. Invalidating what somebody said because they enjoyed something they didn't like pretty much just gives all you need to know about him. EN was good, people like to equate environment design and how a last boss is with how a raid fares overall. Which is honestly a valid reason, but is also irrelevant to the points being made in this thread, especially since with the exception of Xavius, the encounters in EN were pretty well designed and unique from each other.

[Enkrypt]

I'd say Uldir is much more enjoyable than Emerald Nightmare. That place put me to sleep the second time I did it. The first raid of an expansion is historically pretty "meh" in my experience.

I just miss tier gear, honestly. RIP.

[Strake]

Uldir is utter trash. 7/8M.

[Zyky]

With literally every 13 year old rolling rogues etc. I don't think it's bad at all that a raid is not friendly towards heavy melee. Ever notice how having multiple casters is not really an issue? Because they are outnumbered every single expansion.

You really hit the nail on the head. It's not a bad raid per say, just that they overlooked the fact that 14 of their 25 dps specs are melee across 9 Classes. Where as the remaining 11 of 25 are ranged spread across 6 Classes. 3 of the last 4 Mythic encounters heavily punish you if you have more than 4 melee, not saying it's undoable, just that the raid itself is far more difficult than it needs to be. Not to mention buff situations with how most groups are running a combination of Monk/DK tanks, you need to have 2 melee spots locked down for a DH and a Warrior for their respective raid buffs, and if you're not running a Monk tank at all, that's another melee spot locked down. That leaves 1-2 spots open in a 13-14 dps slot roster for a Mythic kill team. I really think they dropped the bomb with Uldir mechanically.

[Gloriandus]

I wouldn't call Uldir "one of the worst"; for me it's enjoyable up until Mythrax (despite the trash). The problem is that, like others have, our raid team is melee heavy, and each week I dread doing Mythrax and G'huun due to the melee-unfriendly mechanics.

[Cherle]

Mythic G'huun is genuinely the least fun boss I've had to progress on in my decade of raiding.

[Deleted]

"One of the worst" - MoP raids (ToT and SoO excluded) were some of the most dull and boring raids In the game.

[Rixxis]

Classic case of people on the internet claiming whatever they most recently participated in is the greatest or worst of all time. Give me Uldir over EN, MSV, BWD any day.

- - - Updated - - -

I never said you couldn't. What I actually said that if you have an Arms Warrior and a Sub Rogue in your raid, you're actually, actively REWARDED for ignoring the adds. The amount of total damage your raid needs to do to beat the boss is lower if you don't follow the mechanics.
But only IF you bring those two specs. If you don't, you actually need to do a bit more than the required minimum damage in order to down Fetid.

Like... you just fundamentally misunderstand. You can down Fetid despite mechanics, yes... but if you have those two DPS specs in your raid, the mechanics literally CHANGE so that not targetting the adds becomes the proper way to handle the mechanic.

Wow what a travesty that a fight can have multiple ways of beating it depending on your comp.

[Jujudrood]

Well, I look at it as an entry level raid compared to all over entry level raids.
- BC was Mags/Kara/Gruul - Uldir falls short IMO (Kara was fun, mags and gruul were... there)
--- Rank: Kara - Uldir - Gruul - Mags
- Wrath was Naxx/Sarth(maybe eye/vault) - Uldir is on par IMO (Naxx was just okay to me, Sarth +3 was hard as balls but otherwise meh)
--- Rank: Naxx=Uldir, Eye, Sarth, Vault
- Cata was BWD/BoT - Uldir falls short IMO (I liked BoT, BWD was pretty meh)
--- Rank: BoT, Uldir, BWD
- MoP was MSV/ToES/HoF - Uldir is on par IMO (didn't care for any of these one way or the other)
--- Rank: Uldir=ToES=HoF, MSV
- WoD was HM/BRF- Uldir falls short IMO (mainly because I liked BRF, HM was worse than Uldir so if we exclude BRF, Uldir wins)
--- Rank: BRF, Uldir, HM
- Legion - EN/NH - Uldir falls short IMO (NH was awesome, EN was bad, so excluding NH, Uldir wins here)
--- Rank: NH, Uldir, EN

I judge everything based on: Boss Fights (both mechanics-wise and design-wise), Zone Design (bonus points for not being boring, which Uldir is), Time to Complete (bonus for not requiring 4 hours to complete on farm, being riddled with trash)

So really, It pretty much falls in the middle of the pack for me as far as entry raids go.
There are better ones, there are worse ones.
Uldir has some interesting bosses, some rather lackluster ones (Zul, mainly), and uneven trash (fuck that stupid ring of terrible).

[Deleted]

Yes, it´s definitely not a great raid. The next one seems created with much more passion. Uldir is just very bland and not immersive.

Also having only one "current content" raid is very bland and boring. Same shit every reset with not much choice which mythic boss to progress on. Tier 11 and Tier 14 were so good in this regard. It´s all about giving as little as possible so players stay subbed for as long as possible I guess.

[BiggestNoob]

Wow what a travesty that a fight can have multiple ways of beating it depending on your comp.

Yes, it's actually bad design when a boss is significantly easier due to comp. Feel free to claim that world first G'huun mythic with 0 warlocks.

[Aurora]

I thought it was the best opening raid since Cata although not without its issues.

Positives
- Lack of trash with Zul's room aside. It was mostly quick and easy to get from boss to boss which is what I always want from a raid.
- Some unique concepts like the Taloc elevator, Mother rooms and G'huun orbs
- Generally felt well balanced between favouring melee/ranged and varying different niches. It never felt as if one spec was dominant in every situation and also suitably punishes teams with an imbalanced setup.
- Mythrax and Zekvoz especially had a nice flow between phases and the sort of different challenges they presented.

Negatives
- Design wise it's yet another corridor run with designated boss rooms like so many before it in the post-LFR world where raids need a specific critical path.
- I found Vectis to be quite boring and yet another "pass the debuff" sort of mechanic.
- G'huun orb running is a great concept somewhat ruined by certain classes being able to solo or facilitate soloing. It could have been a fun task for every player to tackle in teams of 2 but instead it became a mandated role for specific classes and something other classes should be nowhere near.

[tacoloco]

I can't remember which raids, but there have been cases where the earlier bosses were generally harder than later bosses, except for the final boss.

[Kwaai]

Taloc, Mother, and Zek'voz are all really cool. Vectis would be a lot better if Gestate was a root rather than a stun. Debuff management is cool, and the intermission is pretty interesting. Fetid is pretty boring. Wiped maybe 20 times our first week with a melee heavy comp, then came back the next week and killed it in like 5 pulls with 4 melee.

We're currently doing Zul with 2 rogues and it's actually pretty sweet. Knocking adds away from their spawn locations so we can ignore them is really cool, and without too many rogues cheesing it, it feels pretty well tuned.

[Marrilaife]

Classic case of people on the internet claiming whatever they most recently participated in is the greatest or worst of all time. Give me Uldir over EN, MSV, BWD any day.

I'd take EN, MSV, BWD back any day because at least back then I was allowed to play the class I chose and completed the content with it.

[Krigaren]

Uldir is one of the worst raids that this game has seen so far.

Incorrect.

Trial of the Grand Crusader was worse. Way worse.

[docterfreeze]

Taloc, mother, and maybe zek were the only bosses I had fun with. Playing a class with no 2 target cleave or mass AoE feels like shit in this raid.

The orb running mechanic on ghuun was aids. You were forced to bring certain classes if you wanted it to go smoothly, that's never a good thing. Gateways can bug and your runners can get caught on terrain during all their jumps, rolls, and dashes, forcing a wipe. Meanwhile the rest of the raid can just afk.

[Kaver]

Incorrect.

Trial of the Grand Crusader was worse. Way worse.

Did he say Uldir was the worst?

[Seramore]

Did he say Uldir was the worst?

Uldir is the worst though