Is WoW dying.. or are Mmorpgs dying ?

[Felnoire]

WoW died when they tested the Alpha of Vanilla obviously, everything else has been an elaborate and lengthy funeral in it's honour. Ok I'm kidding, it died when people started talking about WoW on forums.
Though on a serious note, I find the mmo market is pretty saturated as most practically feel like the same game just with a new skin and title name. Not exactly going to set the world on fire, nor grab new players. Think the worst thing FF14 did was not keep the FF11 style (which in itself is very similar to me as ff12's combat), as by adopting the more recognisable WoW UI (I know WoW wasn't the first mmo to have said UI but go with me on it) I feel they reduced the uniqueness that could've set it apart. Side note always felt ff12's combat style would've lent itself to an mmo with a few tweaks due to differences between mmo and single player game.
The next mmo that makes a big impact will likely be an mmo that doesn't look like WoW or any other mmo currently around, as in order to draw players away from the more traditional mmos someone is going to have to risk a flop and make something that feels different than what is already out there.

[Mirishka]

Just a thought,

Not a day passes without its new post on how and why WoW is "dying", and it has been like that basicaly forever : each extension was said to be the last, game going downhill, etc etc.

But when you look around, just how many other MMOrpg can you see that are faring well ?
Tera, Aion, Age of Conan, all those so-called "Wow-killer" have disappeared.
SWTOR, Rift, Wildstar... are slowly following.

My point is : isn't the genre itself dying ? And considering that, isn't WoW doing reasonnably well ?

BFA, for all it's blunders and screw-ups so far, had the best day-1 expansion sales in WoW's history. That alone flies in the face of 'WoW is dying'.

[Zyky]

I think it's specifically WoW. The developers hardly listen to the playerbase anymore, and while other companies don't either, WoW was founded and developed for/around the players a long time ago. These days you have Ion and Lore going on streams every couple months TELLING you what you want instead of taking the immense amount of feedback and growing from it.

- - - Updated - - -

BFA, for all it's blunders and screw-ups so far, had the best day-1 expansion sales in WoW's history. That alone flies in the face of 'WoW is dying'.

Day 1 sales doesn't mean it's successful. Day 1 sales doesn't mean everyone stayed with it. Evidence has proven that day 1 sales mean shit when over 50% of your playerbase unsubs within 3 months of the expansions release.

[ShaanuJaanu]

WoW is definitely slowing down a lot this expansion...I guess its a repeat of WoD. Other MMOs arent exactly thriving either.

[Weeps]

Yes, WoW is incredibly successful and continues to rake in tons of dough.

However, you're not factoring in development costs and you're underestimating the benefits of being multiplatform and the strength of microtransactions.

Hearthstone, for example, was initially developed by a team of only 15 people, and it's available on both PC and mobile. Overwatch likewise has a comparatively small team and is multiplatform.

HS and OW may not have the long lifespan of WoW, but they're a hell of a lot cheaper to develop, more broadly appealing, and easier to market. They don't need to have a 15-year tail end, either. They have more than made back their money; Blizzard could easily produce sequels or major version upgrades for either of them to renew interest.

The truth is that these smaller games that target more specific audiences are a much better investment than developing a new MMORPG in 2018+ would ever be, and IMO it's highly unlikely we'll see Blizzard develop a new true MMORPG in the same vein as WoW in the forseeable future.

I am aware of these things and still stand by my belief that WoW, despite the large workforce and requirements to maintain the game, is too profitable to ignore and will outlast any game we know currently because of it.

There are so many potential ideas for WoW Expansions that the game itself could last another 15 years.

The other games are cheaper to develop, highly profitable but short life.

WoW is Blizzard's baby. All they need to do, to boost better profits, is to actually listen to the fans of the game and stop trying to impose their will on us all. "We don't like it so no. You can't have that." They need to stop with that. They need to say, "What was the most successful element of each expansion? Let's improve on it."

But because they don't do that, we have BfA. BfA is a C+ expansion. It's a "meh" expansion. If they turn it around and made it into an A+ expansion, the sub numbers would be through the roof. WoW is still profitable as heck, it's usually the largest chunk of all Blizzcons, so that says something.

Microtransactions aren't going to last long. People are hating it. My son plays fortnite and begs me for in-game money. He's going to grow up and realize that it sucks.

[Tiwack]

Not dead, maybe declining but equally changing as it adapts to new ideas and tech causing the environment to be ever changing along with the people and players in and around it = culture. Mindless fun becomes tiring and boring in the long run as people age and move on while fresh-blood comes to the screens as well.

[Nefarious Tea]

Mobile MMOs appear to be thriving

Don't even fucking joke.

[Weeps]

I think it's specifically WoW. The developers hardly listen to the playerbase anymore, and while other companies don't either, WoW was founded and developed for/around the players a long time ago. These days you have Ion and Lore going on streams every couple months TELLING you what you want instead of taking the immense amount of feedback and growing from it.

I agree 100%. You can see what they do.

Blizz: Implement the change now. Fuck 'em. They'll learn to like it.
Fans: OMG. This is fucking cancer. Please STOP! Take it away and give us back what we had.
Blizz: The team had a talk, we agree. This change was not a very good one, so here's what we'll do... we'll give 1/2 of it back.
Fans: NO. That's still SHIT! ALL OF IT BACK.
Blizz: Ok, wait til next expansion lol?

[Mirishka]

I think it's specifically WoW. The developers hardly listen to the playerbase anymore, and while other companies don't either, WoW was founded and developed for/around the players a long time ago. These days you have Ion and Lore going on streams every couple months TELLING you what you want instead of taking the immense amount of feedback and growing from it.

- - - Updated - - -



Day 1 sales doesn't mean it's successful. Day 1 sales doesn't mean everyone stayed with it. Evidence has proven that day 1 sales mean shit when over 50% of your playerbase unsubs within 3 months of the expansions release.

You know what else means shit? Imaginary statistics. None of us has any idea how many people are still playing BFA, and no BS 'leak' from the idiot on Weakauras' twitter changes that.

And your comment about Ion is just plain stupid. He has admitted to a number of failures with BFA so far, from Azerite armor to the state of several specs/classes. Changes have already been made because of player feedback, and many more (like removing warrior Ignore Pain from GCD) are incoming in 8.1.

Your arguments would be a lot stronger if they came out of the correct end of your body.

(and before you even try to play the WHITE KNIGHT WHITE KNIGHT card, I think that so far BFA is the worst expansion since Cataclysm and haven't played an hour of it in the past month. So yeah, no.)

[Nnyco]

and no, the genre isnt dying. its healthier now than its ever been in the regards which your referring to (i assume).

How is it exactly healthier? Because theres two mmo's instead of one? The gerne is heavily in decline.

[Zyky]

You know what else means shit? Imaginary statistics. None of us has any idea how many people are still playing BFA, and no BS 'leak' from the idiot on Weakauras' twitter changes that.

You can claim they're imaginary, but they're fact. They came from the API of a website CONNECTED TO and OWNED by Blizzard. It's 100% accurate and weakauras wouldn't post garbage and risk ruining their reputation.

[Eggroll]

Yay, another doomsayer!!!

Look at the WoW hype at the beginning of BfA. Peeps still WANT to play this game. But devs do not want to put the kind of effort (effort of the kind that was last put into WoW for MoP ) into the developement that would actually keep peeps playing. Sadly.

That being said: I would imagine a big part of the problem is recruiting new top dev talents for an old game like WoW. So WoW is just getting the dev "leftovers"

[Kolvarg]

While I agree with you, it's also true that Wow has lost a lot of subs since its peak in WotLK (I think it was 11M user or something). And there is next to little serious competion out there.

Just like every other MMORPG did. And pretty much every other game. No videogame lasts forever, and no videogame is popular forever.

Check this thread I made a few years ago (don't necro! ):
Comparing sub number line to other long-lived MMOs

It's the same with most things, especially digital "trends".

It happened with Everquest and Lineage, as seen above. It happened with Final Fantasy XI. It happened with Final Fantasy XIV. It happened with Runescape. It's happening with League of Legends. It will happen with Fortnite as a new genre becomes popular.

You can see the same with social networks. It happened with Myspace and Hi5. It's happening with Facebook.

You can see the pattern. It's just a standard product life cycle.


You might find some cases of games or franchises which have resurgences. Some last longer than others. But in the end no king rules forever.

I do believe that there are external factors that have made MMORPGs less popular. First of all, there's no sense of novelty. When MMORPGs started going mainstream, it was a huge technological jump to have huge worlds with little loading screens, with thousands of players you could play with online. Many games barely even had LAN, let alone Online multiplayer. Social networks weren't a popular thing yet. The first mainstream MMORPGs worked not only as games, but as proto-social networks.

[Oblider]

WoW started dying after it came "alive". Just like all things

[Nemb]

its less of a decline but rather lack of growth in the genre. When wow first came out, MMOs were one of the few ways one can play with other people over the internet. If you remember something like multiplayer half-life or conterstrike was played over LAN servers back in the day.

This ability to play with others attracted a crowd that was bigger than your typical RPG gamer crowd (i was one of those people attracted to multiplayer aspect, I still could care less about the RPG thing). Times have changed and other genres now have robust ways to play with other people over the internet. So it is not surprising that people went off to play their favorite genre in a multiplayer environment, leaving less of a pool for MMOs. Nowadays MMO-RPG is attracting the RPG types rather than extremely diverse crowd that came to wow when it first came out.

[Naytham]

WoW started dying after it came "alive". Just like all things

No it started dying when Activision merged with Blizzard started focusing on other games and putting less and less work into the game meanwhile destroying every single core game system i.e classes, progression, community, leveling, RPG aspects, ect.

each expansion is basically a new game with all the system and design philosophies changes. anyone claiming wow is just getting old or a no game last forever is just not very smart. multiplayer games can live forever with constant game changing updates. the problem is when the changes are complete fucking dogshit and ruin the original idea of the game.

[Deleted]

Rift and vive won't get much attention from blizz, after all their best devs are working on mobile games not vr...btw if you feel like calling Vr your mobile phone strapped to your face with google cardboard then yes, blizz vr will proably happen

gosh no - i meant like a proper suit and 360 screen - think Lawnmower Man

[Irian]

OP, while in part I agree with you, I think WoW's failure is all its own. The game shot itself in the foot the moment it started streamlining the entire MMORPG experience into "instanced raid simulator" and forgot about the other 90% of the game that people enjoyed just as much or more.

WoD was the start of a new era of WoW, and it sucks ass. Nobody likes it, yet it's going to continue until the game dries up and fades away, with those still playing it just clinging onto the hope that something will revive those glory days.

[Zoldor]

People seem to fail to understand market trends. At one point MMO was one of the, if not the, most popular genre. That is no longer the case. Doesn't mean WoW or MMOs are dying, they just aren't the most played. Battle Royal FPS and MOBA have taken the scene by storm with role based FPS making a compelling push. It seems to cycle. It is like saying Fighting games are dead because they aren't the most popular eSport anymore.

MMO's are just sliding down to the more niche community they really are and triple A companies are less likely to sink the incredible amount of money into them. I could see them resurge as tech grows though, but still a few years off of that for sure and you'd need the right IP.

[Saverem]

I think there will always be a niche for MMOs, however, it seems to be getting smaller by the generation.

They usually require a lot of time and money to make, and most devs prefer making a MOBA/FPS/battle royale game that takes less time and effort and will make as much if not more money.

Look at OW, when the game came out, it only had like 6 maps and 12 characters, took less time and money to make than most AAA games out there, yet it's been a huge cash cow for Blizz. They'd rather just pump out more of those than make a WoW 2. Same with HS.