Is GW2 the best free MMO in the market?

[Edge-]

Because no matter how much you spend the game will never stop nagging about it. It's not going to change just because I bought this thing or that thing.

When does it "nag" you, though? I don't think I've ever seen a popup or anything bugging you to pay. Sure if you open the trading post you'll see the cash shop window for a second, but other than that it's not as if this is SWTOR where it will either give you popup or giant cash shop buttons on things you're locked out from. Stuff like inventory slots are just normal locked icons and shit.

It's always going to be, "Haha, out of character slots. Haha, out of bag space and here's 167 more blue junk items you're picking up. Haha, out of gathering tools. Haha, out of salvage kits. Haha, there's new content but it's actually a legendary for whales to buy. Haha, you wanted to try out new builds and/or stat distributions but it costs 521 gold. And of course, Haha, content is rarely actually rewarding to do."

Yes, and they addressed the issue with bags overflowing with stuff starting with PoF, but couldn't make the new system (items drop in stacks of unidentified versions and you can dismantle directly or "identify" before dismantling) retroactive sadly. And to help address the tedium they made it so that you can salvage all items of a certain quality from a single salvage kit/salvage whole stacks of items at once. Also, you can easily and cheaply make Mystic salvage kits that stack up to 250 uses if inventory room is an issue. It's still designed to encourage you to spend on bag space/endless salvage kits, but it's still easily managable and the kits/slots are pretty cheap.

Same goes for harvesting tools and their respective permanent versions.

Legendaries? Whales can get them faster due to dumping gems for gold, but they're all earnable in-game and still require you to farm some shit yourself no matter what. People are always asking for new legendaries anyways.

Trying out new builds and stat distributions? This is standard fare for an MMO - you'll need different gear to try different builds. Not sure what your issue here is?

[Teri]

Since you don't say MMORPG, I currently pick World of Warships as my best F2P MMO game.

World of Warships is a naval action MMO, dipping into the world of large-scale sea battles of the first half of the twentieth century.

[Theangryone]

Other than buying the expansions, I've literally spent $10 bucks so far for gems which puts me miles ahead of what I spent on a WoW sub.

[MORGATH99]

not even close and it will never me thats a theme park game too easy to be called even and mmo

[LilSaihah]

Because no matter how much you spend the game will never stop nagging about it. It's not going to change just because I bought this thing or that thing.

It's always going to be, "Haha, out of character slots. Haha, out of bag space and here's 167 more blue junk items you're picking up. Haha, out of gathering tools. Haha, out of salvage kits. Haha, there's new content but it's actually a legendary for whales to buy. Haha, you wanted to try out new builds and/or stat distributions but it costs 521 gold. And of course, Haha, content is rarely actually rewarding to do."

Do you have the copper-fed salvage kit? That'll kill two of those birds immediately, especially since they're just fixed minor rune bag spamming.

[Deleted]

Hello champions, good to see you.

So, let's be honest here: Best is really subjective, I know. People love to point at me because of my love for this game, and it's totally fair, but let's take a moment to discuss the F2P model of GW2:

You get the full leveling experience
You can create every profession, except Revenant (a fair trade, IMO, as they're all cool.)
You can create up to two characters (Not that many, but hey, I have the full game and I only play with Lotus)
You can enjoy PvP in it's entirety.
You can play WvW in it's entirety.

You can basically play one of the best MMO/game ever made in it's basic form for free, which is a very cool thing to do. Other games offer a lot of restrictions in the overall experience, and I think that GW2 is super fair with that, which helped the game a lot.

What is your opinion on this?

One of the Best mmo’s ever made? That’s highly subjective. One of the best games ever made? That’s just taking a piss. It’s not even in top 250. Objectively there is really nothing putting it there. Better story? Nope. Better gameplay? Heck no? Better graphics? Not by a long stretch. I bought gw2 when it released and have never made it to max level. I was sorely disappointed with its dungeon content and it’s leveling was just a bore to me. That however is subjective. To me wow is the only mmo I have tried that I’ve wanted to come back to again

[Jibjub]

It is the best subscription-free MMO on the market, imo.

[Deleted]

Other than buying the expansions, I've literally spent $10 bucks so far for gems which puts me miles ahead of what I spent on a WoW sub.

Miles ahead of what exactly?

[Edge-]

Nagging as in the game systems, not literal, "Buy stuff now!"

Again, how? There are no popups. Things locked away like bag slots aren't shiny, glowing icons a la SWTOR constantly reminding you. What is a literal "Buy stuff now!"?

They've slowly improved on this, sure. It's still silly what bag space ends up costing, and there's still a metric ton of stuff constantly dropping in your bags, but it's a little better.

Inventory wars is real. I agree it's still a bit of a headache but again, it's manageable without spending money - even if it requires more work. And I have no issues with them pushing inventory room as one of their "pain points" for monetization. This is the exact type of convenience thing they should sell.

Yeah, and you either constantly cart around stacks of the dumb things, shell out cash for permanent ones, or just stop bothering with gathering.

Vendors are common and easy to access so having 1-2 stacks of harvesting tools in your bags isn't really taking up much room. You'll still generally make a profit off whatever you're harvesting so it's worth it, and you can use that profit to turn around and buy gems for gold to unlock the permanent versions.

Remember, the game didn't even have permanent harvesting tools for a while after launch.

Earnable in game if you play 25/8, sure. Otherwise they're just constantly tossed in as something for whales to fork over more cash for. Doubly sad when new legendaries are the headline of new constent releases.

They're supposed to be huge time investments given their power and flexibility. That's the whole point of them. I still don't have one (or even a precursor) after years of casual play, but I've never really worked towards one. I have folks in my guild who have crafted multiple legendaries without spending a penny.

And again, even if you want to spend gold you still need to do quite a bit of farming for drops and other things you can't earn from gold. You have to earn them regardless, gold just makes it faster.

And new legendaries are the headline of new content releases because of how involved acquiring them is and how much players like that journey and the legendaries themselves. If players weren't excited by them, they wouldn't keep making and highlighting them.

No, it's not?

If I'm playing a Rogue in WoW and want to try out another spec, the gear is basically the same. Maybe not perfectly optimized with the secondaries, but mostly fine. Hell, depending on class, I can screw around with specs, stats, etc pretty much at will.

In WoW for a pure dps class, sure. But even then you may want gear that focuses on haste for one build and crit or mastery for another. But hybrid classes do need different gear - at least now that they've added on random rolls and azerite stats and shit. And WoW isn't the only MMO on the market, most other MMO's don't have gear that changes when you change your specs.

You can try different builds without getting the optimal gear, too. If all you really want is to get a feel for it you can easily swap and try it regardless of gear.

If I wanna try a different build in GW2, oh boy. Here we go. Using a different damage type? Well, that's an entirely different set of gear already. Doing PvE or WvW? Probably gonna want entirely different stats depending on that. Want to play around with stats a little? Nooo, that's gonna take another full set of gear. That's not even getting into runes. It's incredibly off-putting unless you just wanna play Berserker in PvE only forever.

For optimal play, yes. But there are plenty of builds that can work across multiple game types just fine. You're talking about optimizing, something which similarly requires a lot more work in other games as well.

And given the lack of linear gear progression that exists in other games, side-progression in terms of getting sets for different builds partially fills that gap.

Oh, not to mention if a new prefix comes out that's just better for your spec. Minstrel was a riot.

Yes, gear changes between expansions. This is pretty standard for MMO's.

And of course, as I said before, there's the primary issue of content just not being rewarding. Most of this wouldn't be too bad if I felt like just sitting down and playing normally would result in meaningful progress toward something, but generally it won't.

Which content, specifically? Because there are complaints that the PoF zones don't have good rewards compared to vanilla/HoT zones or othe content and those are totally fair, but it's not hard to find content that will provide decent rewards based on what you like playing.

It's not a perfect game and it's got plenty of flaws, I'd never argue otherwise. But it seems like you're making mountains out of mole hills.

[Edge-]

Now that's you being dishonest. GW2 was HEAVILY marketed as abandoning those concepts typical to the rest of the genre.

Say that it's fine, say that you don't mind them doing things this way now, but don't throw, "But that's how MMOs are." at me.

Not at all. There's no linear gear progression, which is why they said they wouldn't add. There's horizontal gear progression, which they've said is all they ever want to have. And adding new stat combinations is a horizontal change for gear. The gear itself isn't more powerful - stat allotments remain the same. What changes is that the gear becomes better for certain builds or allows for new builds to work.

And if you have no interest in playing anything other than your zerker power build? Then those new stat combos don't matter to you and you can keep chugging along with the same gear you were using last expansion.

[LilSaihah]

That said, I expected them to double down on this and maybe even add another tier of gear in PoF but they didn't. So I give them credit for not doubling down on that design. Indeed, I'm not even sure if any PoF prefixes are that good? Haven't really looked.

Plaguedoctor's is juicy for WvW.
Harrier's is juicy for PvE.
Grieving needs exploration with the rune & sigil rework.
Marshal's is jank. Probably playable for an OW content build, but anything can do OW.

[Edge-]

Bit of a nitpick on this one, stat allocations don't actually stay the same. The more stat types on an item, the more total stats it'll have. (Celestial ends up having more than 1100 more total stats than Berserker, just to use the most extreme example.) I guess to make up for the "less focused" nature of the stats, but it does have an effect. So when stuff like Viper, Trailblazer or Minstrel appears, it really isn't entirely just a "sidegrade".

Stuff like celestial may have more total item budget, but it's going to be shit if you're trying to use it for any real serious builds due to the fact that the majority of the stat budget is "wasted" regardless of build.

As for stuff like Viper etc., it is entirely a sidegrade. Zerker builds etc. can perform just as well from everything I've seen, and it's still based on builds. If your build is more power focused and you don't have many conditions then viper won't do shit for you, the condi and expertise is largely going to be wasted and you'll be missing out on the ferocity.

That said, I expected them to double down on this and maybe even add another tier of gear in PoF but they didn't. So I give them credit for not doubling down on that design. Indeed, I'm not even sure if any PoF prefixes are that good? Haven't really looked.

Some of them are, but again it's more for opening up more builds than anything else. My support firebrand uses harrier (power/healing power/concentration) for example, without that the build wouldn't really work well as it would either do beyond zero damage (missing power) or you wouldn't get enough healing or extended buff durations.

[Svifnymr]

They're supposed to be huge time investments given their power and flexibility. That's the whole point of them. I still don't have one (or even a precursor) after years of casual play, but I've never really worked towards one. I have folks in my guild who have crafted multiple legendaries without spending a penny.

I've found two precursors, made the legendary and sold it. For the second, recent one, I'd been getting the monthly legendary mats for a long time, so I guess that's a big easy thing. Had to run Wv for a while and the dungeon tokens, but not horrible. Certainly would take some gold if you lacked resources, but that doesn't mean gems.

And again, even if you want to spend gold you still need to do quite a bit of farming for drops and other things you can't earn from gold. You have to earn them regardless, gold just makes it faster.

As I mentioned in the other thread, lots of folks just seem to want to get rewards, rather than play the game. So if there's a short cut to get something (like buying gems to convert to gold and purchase it), somehow that's how it's "meant" to be rather than just a way to supplement your gameplay. If you don't actually want to play the game to earn the legendary why do you need the legendary anyway?

And new legendaries are the headline of new content releases because of how involved acquiring them is and how much players like that journey and the legendaries themselves. If players weren't excited by them, they wouldn't keep making and highlighting them.

What pisses me off with new legendaries is that they require PvP and Fractals in order to create, so I'll never bother.

[Edge-]

So I'm always left wondering just how they intend you to do things now. Raiding? Pushing Fractals? Same old MMO paradigm?

A bit of that plus more. There's a bunch of content depending on what you enjoy doing, and I honestly think that the game has one of the best achievement systems in MMO's. It's what I usually do when I log in for a while - find some achievements I want to work on and work on them. They cover each game type. Beyond that the usual stuff like farming gold, progressing alts, getting gear sets for different builds etc.

As for buying gems being the way legendaries are "meant" to be crafted...I mean, I feel like that's kinda clear. It's not like they attach them to any actual activities or achievements or content.

If you craft them they do. I've got a handful in the works (for precursors) that I've just been slowly and accidentally progressing on as I'm doing other things. And yeah, it's faster if you spend gold on a lot of stuff but it's neither required and it's not the only way to get it. Again, you still have to farm all kinds of shit in-game that you can only get by doing specific events/bosses/etc.

Again - just because you can buy gold with gems doesn't mean it's balanced around that. They may be balanced a bit more around people having lots of gold (because some folks have absurd amounts of gold), but these are very much long "grinds" similar to the kinds of longterm time investments that legendaries in WoW or other games.

[Deleted]

Hmm... GW2 offers a lot, but without the advanced specs you will be severely handicapped if not barred from all end-game content.

In truth, i think it makes no sense to make such comparisons. It's the end game that matters on mmo's, the "free" portion is just a little something to string you along. With that in mind, they are all bad.

[PACOX]

Hmm... GW2 offers a lot, but without the advanced specs you will be severely handicapped if not barred from all end-game content.

In truth, i think it makes no sense to make such comparisons. It's the end game that matters on mmo's, the "free" portion is just a little something to string you along. With that in mind, they are all bad.

Ehhh, not really but the only endgame content you only have access to is T4 fractals. Core Guardian, Warrior, and Ranger have core builds that benchmark in the same ballpark as their elite specs. Warriors enjoy a comfortable spot in the "meta" as your main job is to bring your banners and be the primary CC'r/mechanic person so your teammates have room to their their primary role. That job can done in any Warrior spec with core Warrior still putting up solid numbers.

Core condi Ranger is still respectable if you dont have PoF. Core Guard can put up numbers. Off the top of my head, condi Engineer should be good as well but I would never want to put anyone through their rotation.

To raid you need an expansion so you might as well use an elite spec.

- - - Updated - - -

Again - just because you can buy gold with gems doesn't mean it's balanced around that. They may be balanced a bit more around people having lots of gold (because some folks have absurd amounts of gold), but these are very much long "grinds" similar to the kinds of longterm time investments that legendaries in WoW or other games.

Just want to say that the legendaries are not balanced around having a bunch of gold except the mandatory 100G dump plus intial buy in of certain recipes.

People were crafting legendaries back when 50G meant you had a decent amount of money. My guild knows I never have much liquid gold, less than 100, usually < 50 and yet I have 9 legendaries. It takes playing towards them and doing what you like to keep yourself motivated, not farming gold. People who can drop a bunch of gold on them are people who like farming gold.

They are fitting long grind in a game doesnt have many. In GW2 you chase shiny stuff, in WoW you chase power. Its all preferrential.

I mostly play GW2 when I want to play a MMORPG, WoW from time to time. For me it boils down to:

In WoW if I wipe I always going to wonder if gear would have made the difference even if user error was the issue.

If I die in GW2, 90% of the time its user error.

* Assuming you're running meta builds in both games.

[Jinpachi]

The game is boring AF. SWTOR is the best imho

[Svifnymr]

And see, for me it's the other way around. I was drawn to GW2 at first precisely because of the fact that it was meant to just be played and not worry about rewards.

Then as the game grew, I found that I needed to think about "rewards" more and more just to play the game as I wanted. But at the same time, most activities actually don't reward you with diddly squat 95% of the time. So I'm always left wondering just how they intend you to do things now. Raiding? Pushing Fractals? Same old MMO paradigm?

As I mentioned elsewhere, part of why I left WoW was the idea that if you don't do X, you're a second class citizen. I had done a 6 month sub (or 1 year, I forget), and was grinding rep in the fire place before Deathwing's patch. I could do stuff for a month to unlock a weapon that was not equal to a random drop from the raid that any random person could get in 1 hour. I was pretty well tired of drudgery, especially since I had to do the zone on the alt that had the skill, then get the orb from dungeons on that character since they didn't transfer. (Then they showed the Mists reveal at Blizzcon and the panda came hopping on out, and I was done.)

So, then we come to GW2, I can attain the most powerful items, but some skins are unavailable except via certain playstyles. This can be irritating, but it is not punishment.

I do agree that loot is nearly meaningless, especially with a copper salvage kit in the shared inventory slot. You just burn it all up and deposit it all. As I mentioned elsewhere, the game does not give enough motivation to play all the time, and sometimes I'm completing achievements that reward stuff I don't even want.

As for buying gems being the way legendaries are "meant" to be crafted...I mean, I feel like that's kinda clear. It's not like they attach them to any actual activities or achievements or content. It's just spend, spend, spend. And then farm, farm, farm. It's pretty obvious that they just want to bring in the whales periodically with legendaries as opposed to really having them represent anything about your play.

As I said, you can see it that way, but you should also accept that it's in your head, not in any mechanical or stated reason from the game. I have made two legendaries, sold both, with found precursors (since the new method requires fractals & pvp, I don't do it). I have never purchased bag slot expansions or extra bank space. (And frankly I think WoW was much worse, unless you never had to store stuff in mails?)

I did get the stack thing, so the bank stacks to 750. Converted gold to gems back with the first legendary. The last time I bought gems was so long ago I can't recall. I'd bought the chef outfit and it was very bad, dye channels sucked. I emailed to ask about returning it and was told no refunds. So I decided not to spend cash on gems anymore.

This was so long ago that since then they changed outfits and refunded me the chef outfit as part of that conversion. How many years ago was that? I've got 2-3 of every class, so plenty of character slots. I play an hour a day maybe, more when new material.

And yeah, it's been a long time in this game. I still remember when Queens Gauntlet was new and you were complaining in map chat about one of the bosses, so I'm pretty sure you've been here a while too! :-p

[Svifnymr]

Like I said, loot being meaningless wouldn't be a problem if I didn't need that loot just to try different specs or play different classes without being a complete train wreck. That's where it gets frustrating.

You're crafting or achieving for anything important, so loot doesn't really matter much except to sell/salvage to get you there.

I mean, that's it. There's no boss they drop off of, no long questline to build one where you do content and get it as a reward. It's just a bucket into which you toss a metric fuckton of materials and gold and a skin pops out.

Technically the precursor achievements are mostly "questlines" in the sense that GW2 has them.

If WoW used the GW2 system, getting a Thunderfury would look more like the Ahn'Qiraj gate opening stuff or the Insane achievement than a legendary drop or quest.

"Combine the following in the Mystical Furnace:

5000 each of Copper, Tin, Silver, Iron, Gold, Mythril, Truesilver, and Thorium.
2500 each of Linen, Wool, Silk, Mageweave, Runecloth.
250 each of Essence of Earth, Essence of Fire, Essence of Water, Essence of Undeath, Essence of Wind, Living Essence.
10,000 gold.

Yay, you made a Thunderfury."

Amusingly, that is basically the process that I did to make Save The Queen, which is the precursor for the Shining Blade. Make 100+ Shards of the Crown, which are 30 elder wood, 45 mithril and some tier 5 mats and some tokens from the LS zones. I didn't buy any, just built it along the way over a month or whatnot. There is some way to spend Laurels for them too.

As I mentioned, the new legendaries require pvp & fractals, so I just made this precursor, didn't make the actual legendary. I just liked the look of Save The Queen.

Maaaaaan, I've never had a precursor drop. Nor have I ever got one from Mystic Toilet gambling when I'm bored. Never even seen a drop that sold for more than a couple gold. Everything is just, "Here's a green item, thanks for killing that boss." ><

I don't recall the first one (Zap), the second one (Spark) was from a jumping puzzle. One day the daily was the pirate puzzle in LA, so I did it on an alt and left him there. Each day I'd open the chest and one day a few weeks later I got Spark.

[Deleted]

The game is boring AF. SWTOR is the best imho

swtor is boring as hell, ive quit it after 3 days. in gw2 all the good content is gated by paid LW "DLC", and bank space is so tiny, you fill it up in less than a week