What a waste....

[aimmachine]

If you see the game as a bunch of boring activities just to 'get loot', I realy don't get why you are playing this game and not something you like playing.

to get loot to own guys who didn't get loot (sarcasm.jpg), and yes, "I realy don't get why you are playing" > you should not


So, what the point of raiding every week for you, if you don't need any reward from this place, to enjoy THE CONTENT 30 times in a row, rly?

[kamuimac]

This circle jerking argument is very tiresome but ok I will bite. One more time: We who complain, love wow. We would like to continue loving wow. Forcing a divorce because of developer mediocrity and stupidity is pathetic and by no means a valid justification of how things are.

WoW had proved time and again its a great game as long as it doesn't get ruined by idiots at all levels.

problem is "you" who are complaining are meaningless minority

while majority enjoys BfA a lot and couldnt care less what "you " think.

its "you " problem if you dont enjoy game.

go play something else because this design model clearly isnt going anywhere no matter how much "you " whine

what hurts "you " most if that nobody cares what 100-200 forums whiners and 4-5 youtubers whine about besides "you " yourself.

[Kidneu]

Dota 2 is a waste of time

[kamuimac]

to get loot to own guys who didn't get loot (sarcasm.jpg), and yes, "I realy don't get why you are playing" > you should not


So, what the point of raiding every week for you, if you don't need any reward from this place, to enjoy THE CONTENT 30 times in a row, rly?

there is none whatsoever - which is why you have waaaaay more "ex raiders" then "current raiders" in game

dont get me wrong - been there done that have screenshots of the most geared toon of my class on my realm - and ? stopped caring totaly after farming SoO for over a year.

most of raiders stop at some point.

people who raid for years and still raid are exeption not a rule.

[Demithio]

Its staggering the amount of resources blizzard is devoting to aspects of this expansion that nobody cares about.
Warfronts, isle expos, azerite. Take warfronts and isle expos out of the game and nobody will notice. Take azerite out and people will be happy.

Its insane that so many resources are being wasted on ideas which are clearly failures. Instead of developers focusing on actual class balance, they're focusing on adding new azerite traits. Instead of getting more/more instersting/more frequent dungeon and raid encounters, we're getting fucking warfronts and isle expos.

I get that some experimentation and trial is needed to discover new and interesting concepts. The problem here is that instead of treading lightly and gauging what works and what doesn't, bliz loaded up all of its resources into a train which has already derailed. And instead of accepting this they are doubling down, adding to the train more of what made it derail in the first place. That being boring, one dimensional grind-fests, existing only to fuel a horribly designed azerite system which the game would be better without.

BFA is like a product from a sh!tty late night infomercial. Its got all these supposed features; Azerite! Warfronts! Island expeditions! Super absorbent! But the reality is that its cheap garbage.

The problem though is that BFA isn't cheap garbage. Its expensive garbage. The amount of art and so called "design" resources that went into these failed concepts is staggering. Hell, we could have probably had another xpac by now.

Get your shit together bliz.

I couldn't really agree more. They've been on this "destroy WoW" trend now for years by adding more garbage on top of more garbage. Its happened on every expansion since Cataclysm like clockwork. The last several years have been a (correct) prediction that the next expansion will be no better than the previous and in some cases much worse. Basically there is no more class identity or balancing as classes have been basically homogenized a long time ago. The whole game has been simplified development wise into a homogenized receptacle for what new and unwanted gimmick(s) Blizzard decides to add next. I believe this was done very much on purpose, an understatement really, as the empirical evidence points to nothing else

[D3athsting]

Yeah seriously, go run through a vanilla zone or raid and then go run through a BFA zone or raid. You will see that vanilla art is so outdated and just looks bad. The best example is look at trees in Quel'danas and then go look at trees in Drustvar.

Just because something has more polygons and higher res textures and shaders doesn't mean it has better art

[GhostShaman]

Raids? Right now people do more warfronts than your precious raids. Raids are old boring content that majority of people ignore completly. Make Islands more rewarding and people will love it too.

If Blizzard need stop something it's listening raiders.

I disagree. Raids has been a driving force in this game, and the anti raiding rhetoric has proven to be a bit lack luster. Given the dumb-downess of LFR, and the lack of effort and coordination these islands and warfronts have, people just get bored and quit. There is nothing exciting about it, its just yet another queuing mechanism that the devs use. I think if more emphasis was put on raiding and more raids were released like in TBC and Wrath, the player experience would be a lot better. TBH islands and warfronts are nothing more than lazy development, which is why I also think RNG has gotten out of control.

[Ardourdan]

I have never seen such disillusionment with an expansion, on such a large scale, as this expansion. It is so poor.

[Demithio]

The sad part also is that people weren't expecting WoW to change much after wotlk, as this is when most players were the most content. They had the formula at that point, and there was zero need to change things on such a stark and fundamental level, just keep world events going and perhaps minor add ins (not stupid things like pet battles and fashion shows) to keep things fresh. This combined with new lands, dungeons, raids, mobs, rewards, experiences, a new race / class or two and people would have stayed content. All they had to do was feed them new content on its normal cycle using the already proven and established game play formula and WoW would not be in the condition it is today.

Sadly, Blizzard decided to go the cheap and easy way, which led us to the complete and utter disaster that is current WoW (over the last several years). Corporate development took over and made this happen. I'm not sure the actual developers had much say in this or not, as the bean counter on top of the Blizzard food chain call the shots.

[kamuimac]

I disagree. Raids has been a driving force in this game, and the anti raiding rhetoric has proven to be a bit lack luster. Given the dumb-downess of LFR, and the lack of effort and coordination these islands and warfronts have, people just get bored and quit. There is nothing exciting about it, its just yet another queuing mechanism that the devs use. I think if more emphasis was put on raiding and more raids were released like in TBC and Wrath, the player experience would be a lot better. TBH islands and warfronts are nothing more than lazy development, which is why I also think RNG has gotten out of control.

what you are saying is not only nonsense but also straight lies.

before cata and LFR was extremly niche activity avoided by majority of players.

blizzard had to put in LFR to even justify raids being still in game

wow didnt become popular because of raiding - if anything it became popular despite it being in there.

mythic + were finall proof how many people would rather do 5 mans then raid.

puting raiding in game was a mistake since MC .

[Deleted]

I have never seen such disillusionment with an expansion, on such a large scale, as this expansion. It is so poor.

I agree. Never before has community been this toxic, entitled and clueless. Disillusionment was evident from the ''feedback''. Let's check some of the things people have bitched about in BfA:


Feedback A: Evil Actiblizz is artificially extending play time to please their stockholders, making us grind, time-gating content, etc.

Feedback B: BfA is so boring, i have nothing to do, i barely log in outside of raids and weekly mythic+.


Feedback A: Blizzard is so lazy and uninnovative, they just copied Legion systems.

Feedback B: Warfronts and island expeditions are crap. Why is Blizzard wasting their time on it.


Feedback A: GCD change is bad and it further removed complexity and skill requirement.

Feedback B: GCD change is good, it increased complexity and skill requirement.


Feedback A: This game is too easy and forgiving.

Feedback B: Wtf Bilzz, world quests take too long. My spec is crap because it can't move and dps. Mythic+ is frustrating, why do we have these afixes?


This is just a part of the contraficting ''feedback''.

BfA has it's problems, that is evident. But it seems to me that BfA is harder then Legion ,and that is why so many dislike it. Every single negative feedback i have seen has been vastly exaggarated and full of incorrect.

For example, time gating and ap grind in BfA are vastly more relaxed then in Legion. Did everybody forget about legendaries and artifact power grind?

I really don't understand this much negativity.

[Demithio]

I agree. Never before has community been this toxic, entitled and clueless. Disillusionment was evident from the ''feedback''. Let's check some of the things people have bitched about in BfA:


Feedback A: Evil Actiblizz is artificially extending play time to please their stockholders, making us grind, time-gating content, etc.

Feedback B: BfA is so boring, i have nothing to do, i barely log in outside of raids and weekly mythic+.


Feedback A: Blizzard is so lazy and uninnovative, they just copied Legion systems.

Feedback B: Warfronts and island expeditions are crap. Why is Blizzard wasting their time on it.


Feedback A: GCD change is bad and it further removed complexity and skill requirement.

Feedback B: GCD change is good, it increased complexity and skill requirement.


Feedback A: This game is too easy and forgiving.

Feedback B: Wtf Bilzz, world quests take too long. My spec is crap because it can't move and dps. Mythic+ is frustrating, why do we have these afixes?


This is just a part of the contraficting ''feedback''.

BfA has it's problems, that is evident. But it seems to me that BfA is harder then Legion ,and that is why so many dislike it. Every single negative feedback i have seen has been vastly exaggarated and full of incorrect.

For example, time gating and ap grind in BfA are vastly more relaxed then in Legion. Did everybody forget about legendaries and artifact power grind?

I really don't understand this much negativity.

Its simply an accumulation of people's frustration over the years with Blizzards crazy and very poor design decisions. Since the game is so nuts with its development cycle and decisions, its difficult to track. People want to like it, but they cant. This just isn't a BFA thing, its a past several years thing, and predictably Blizzard just keeps doubling down on the same thing that causes the frustration and lack of interest with each new expansion. BFA just happens to be the latest in Blizzard produced slop.

[Jester Joe]

I like warfronts a lot. They are not exhausting, they are events that happen every once in a while and the queue is always near instant. This tells me they are incredibly popular unlike what you say.

Not at all how it works.
The queue for island expeditions are also near instant, does that mean they're extremely popular?

No. It just means there's no roles that need to be filled. Throwing the first 20 people that queue up into the warfront is easier when you don't have to wait another 15 minutes for a tank.

And it gives guaranteed loot that is at least 340 ilvl and can titanforge, and a quest for a free piece of 370 gear for the first run. Hell, I got 370 titanforged pants from it.

[Ophenia]

I really don't understand this much negativity.

Because there isn't much to defend here.

Your "contradicting feedback" are not all contradicting. Artificially extending play time by adding time-gating everywhere, it leads exactly to "nothing to do", as in "nothing interesting to do", there are tons of things you "have to" do, but not much you "want to".

Warfronts and Islands are not innovative sorry. You do realize Islands are Apexis crystal "world quests" from WoD right ? Warfronts are glorified 3D-Mission Table, with no challenge as you can't lose anyway. So yeah, you can count them as "new" stuff.

Regarding the GCD... Well...

The global cooldown timer has been added to all spells and abilities.

From... The APRIL FOOLS 2006 (https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/4254523255).
Why would the community take this change seriously when the original developers found that pitiful enough to joke about ?

(nearly the same as the Happy Reaper April Fools for Diablo, but that's another topic)

[Demithio]

what you are saying is not only nonsense but also straight lies.

before cata and LFR was extremly niche activity avoided by majority of players.

blizzard had to put in LFR to even justify raids being still in game

wow didnt become popular because of raiding - if anything it became popular despite it being in there.

mythic + were finall proof how many people would rather do 5 mans then raid.

puting raiding in game was a mistake since MC .

Not sure you entirely have your facts straight either. Raiding has always been there for people that wanted to delve deeper into the game with something to strive for. Its what kept many players going during end game. Vanilla, TBC, and wotlk had very successful raiding runs with a good amount of player participating, especially in wotlk were raiding became more casual friendly, but not push over simplified easy. LFR was never needed, players simply had to join a raid group and learn to play their character to at least a decent level. It worked for my guild, and many others. Players being handed raids on a silver platter via LFR cheapened their charisma, and gave players nothing to strive for, or look forward to. Which is what made the game so addicting to begin with. All I know is that my guild, and many others had an absolute blast in TBC / wotlk raiding, in my case particularly TBC. We felt pride in our accomplishments and subsequent rewards for our efforts, which is what made us want to continue to play.

[bloodykiller86]

Its staggering the amount of resources blizzard is devoting to aspects of this expansion that nobody cares about.
Warfronts, isle expos, azerite. Take warfronts and isle expos out of the game and nobody will notice. Take azerite out and people will be happy.

Its insane that so many resources are being wasted on ideas which are clearly failures. Instead of developers focusing on actual class balance, they're focusing on adding new azerite traits. Instead of getting more/more instersting/more frequent dungeon and raid encounters, we're getting fucking warfronts and isle expos.

I get that some experimentation and trial is needed to discover new and interesting concepts. The problem here is that instead of treading lightly and gauging what works and what doesn't, bliz loaded up all of its resources into a train which has already derailed. And instead of accepting this they are doubling down, adding to the train more of what made it derail in the first place. That being boring, one dimensional grind-fests, existing only to fuel a horribly designed azerite system which the game would be better without.

BFA is like a product from a sh!tty late night infomercial. Its got all these supposed features; Azerite! Warfronts! Island expeditions! Super absorbent! But the reality is that its cheap garbage.

The problem though is that BFA isn't cheap garbage. Its expensive garbage. The amount of art and so called "design" resources that went into these failed concepts is staggering. Hell, we could have probably had another xpac by now.

Get your shit together bliz.

according to who? you're sh*t a** opinion? I for one actually enjoy Warfronts. WHAT?! a differing opinion from your own!??? the absurdity. be gone troll

[HuxNeva]

to get loot to own guys who didn't get loot (sarcasm.jpg), and yes, "I realy don't get why you are playing" > you should not


So, what the point of raiding every week for you, if you don't need any reward from this place, to enjoy THE CONTENT 30 times in a row, rly?

Yes. I like hanging out on Discord with the guild. If we don't raid we do other stuff. Sure we would like a new raid as this one is getting long in the tooth.

- - - Updated - - -

Not sure you entirely have your facts straight either. Raiding has always been there for people that wanted to delve deeper into the game with something to strive for. Its what kept many players going during end game. Vanilla, TBC, and wotlk had very successful raiding runs with a good amount of player participating, especially in wotlk were raiding became more casual friendly, but not push over simplified easy. LFR was never needed, players simply had to join a raid group and learn to play their character to at least a decent level. It worked for my guild, and many others. Players being handed raids on a silver platter via LFR cheapened their charisma, and gave players nothing to strive for, or look forward to. Which is what made the game so addicting to begin with. All I know is that my guild, and many others had an absolute blast in TBC / wotlk raiding, in my case particularly TBC. We felt pride in our accomplishments and subsequent rewards for our efforts, which is what made us want to continue to play.

LFR was never for you. It was for the millions of solo players that don't want join a preorganized raid group or guilds. You and your guild can safely ignore it completely.

[Deleted]

Not at all how it works.
The queue for island expeditions are also near instant, does that mean they're extremely popular?

No. It just means there's no roles that need to be filled. Throwing the first 20 people that queue up into the warfront is easier when you don't have to wait another 15 minutes for a tank.

And it gives guaranteed loot that is at least 340 ilvl and can titanforge, and a quest for a free piece of 370 gear for the first run. Hell, I got 370 titanforged pants from it.

Island queues take at least a minute for me, so i don't think it's exactly the same. But yes, if queues are short the content is popular.

It's not just tanks needing to be filled, it's there being people interested in playing the content. Notice i didn't say it's more popular than dungeons on raids. But they are popular enough that theres enough people interested for you to constantly have a near instant queue.

Yes, warfronts give gear. That is the point of end game progression and partially while i like them. I wouldn't do mythic+ either if it didn't give gear. The gear reward is why anyone plays end-game at all. Getting stronger.

[Jester Joe]

Island queues take at least a minute for me, so i don't think it's exactly the same. But yes, if queues are short the content is popular.

It's not just tanks needing to be filled, it's there being people interested in playing the content. Notice i didn't say it's more popular than dungeons on raids. But they are popular enough that theres enough people interested for you to constantly have a near instant queue.

Yes, warfronts give gear. That is the point of end game progression and partially while i like them. I wouldn't do mythic+ either if it didn't give gear. The gear reward is why anyone plays end-game at all. Getting stronger.

Correlation does not imply causation is the saying I believe?

Island expeditions are considered an obligation to those who want the AP for their Heart of Azeroth.
Warfronts are considered the fastest and most efficient way to gear up.

That doesn't mean the people in there are having fun on the path they are taking to reach that point.

You can go into a warfront and start asking people yourself during the prep phase. Ask who's excited to be there.

[Gaexion Ramza Beoulve]

There is no such thing as class balance.

First they need to make the classes fun and playable before they can even think about balancing them.