Remove Pathfinder for Flying

[Darththeo]

I think they should put a rep increase rate for prior Expansions to make obtaining flight easier up to the point of Exalted with the fraction.

[ashblond]

It works the same as Adding gear vendor adds options, you can either buy gear or work weeks for that gear. Do you really think theres actually valid options? no, there isn't. One is superior in every way and its the same thing with flying being superior to ground mounts.

There is a simple fallacy in your logic of flying adding options, in reality it doesn't. Its like if Blizzard added a talent row with 3 talents but only 1 increase dps and the other two didn't do anything. Would you really say there is an option there? No, you wouldn't.

If your literal whole argument is that flying adds options and more options is good then yes, that can simply be used on anything - including gear vendors. But that argument is horrible and should never, ever be used.

OK. You think flying and free gear vendor add "fake options" to the game. That is your opinion, which is perfectly fine.

[lappee]

OK. You think flying and free gear vendor add "fake options" to the game. That is your opinion, which is perfectly fine.

Ok, I give up. There is simply no hope for you.

Thank god you're never going to develop any games.


edit: nvm, fuck that. Aint gonna give up. Lets get to the bottom of this

Why do you want to add flying.

[ashblond]

Ok, I give up. There is simply no hope for you.

Thank god you're never going to develop any games.


edit: nvm, fuck that. Aint gonna give up. Lets get to the bottom of this

Why do you want to add flying.

Why do you even need to ask that? It is so obvious, because I want to fly, the game is more fun for me when I can fly.

And it is not really "adding", because flying already exists in game. I just want to unlock it faster, instead of delaying it.

[Dhrizzle]

Free gear from vendor is obviously a bad idea in any MMORPG game. Gear progression is one of the main party of the game. If players can get high level free gear from vendor, then most of the game content (dungeons, raids, quests, etc.) will be meaningless for most players. And it will result inevitable death of wow.

If you think free gear has no negative influence and give you more option in wow, that is your opinion, which i fully respect. I just have a different opinion and disagree with that. I have been very clear about this, and there is no need to discuss it.

The point I (and I think @lappee) was making is the argument "it's fine to be in the game as people can ignore it" doesn't hold water. Trivialising the gearing process might be a more extreme version but it serves to illustrate that Blizz can't just put in an easy-mode to doing something and expect people to play the more difficult way.

[crusadernero]

I like flying. I especially like flying when farming mats for my professions. At this time in the game im focusing more on that cause I feel "finished" with alot of other current content.

Knowing that the only new content in several months are the raid, I dont understand why we cant just fly in bfa zones at this point.

- - - Updated - - -

Why do you even need to ask that? It is so obvious, because I want to fly, the game is more fun for me when I can fly.

And it is not really "adding", because flying already exists in game. I just want to unlock it faster, instead of delaying it.

Agree. I hated that in Legion we got flying so late it was almost no point. Looks like its happening in BfA to. Back when we could fly early on I liked logging my farming chars and just flying around the world(s) and farm stuff.

I mean sure, farming stuff while flying might not be content, but it sure was a part for me staying subbed during those "nothing to do" times that happens in the game. Having flying made that more enjoyable and fun.

[ashblond]

The point I (and I think @lappee) was making is the argument "it's fine to be in the game as people can ignore it" doesn't hold water. Trivialising the gearing process might be a more extreme version but it serves to illustrate that Blizz can't just put in an easy-mode to doing something and expect people to play the more difficult way.

Yes, I get your opinion.
And my opinion is also very clear: something can be ignored, but others can't, because they affect the game in different degree.
As you said, trivializing gear process is more extreme than flying, that is exactly the reason I am against it, because it affects the game in a much worse way than just flying. It is another "degree".
You are free to disagree.

[lappee]

Why do you even need to ask that? It is so obvious, because I want to fly, the game is more fun for me when I can fly.

And it is not really "adding", because flying already exists in game. I just want to unlock it faster, instead of delaying it.

I just want to get to the bottom of it so we can get rid of your "more options is good" argument.

So why does it make the game more fun to you?

[ashblond]

I just want to get to the bottom of it so we can get rid of your "more options is good" argument.

So why does it make the game more fun to you?

To be very clear, my opinion is always "more options of transport is good", not more options on other things. I have said that again and again.

There are different reasons why flying is fun for me: exploring, gathering profession farming, using different flying mounts, etc..

[lappee]

To be very clear, my opinion is always "more options of transport is good", not more options on other things. I have said that again and again.

There are different reasons why flying is fun for me: exploring, gathering profession farming, using different flying mounts, etc..

Originally you said that more option the better but w/e. So, can we have instant teleport to everywhere without a cd usable whenever. Thats a transportation option so it must be good for the game to have such.

You can do all of those things without flying mount. What is it with flying mounts that makes exploring (which we've already discussed actually removes parts of it) and gathering professions fun to you.

[ashblond]

Originally you said that more option the better but w/e. So, can we have instant teleport to everywhere without a cd usable whenever. Thats a transportation option so it must be good for the game to have such.

You can do all of those things without flying mount. What is it with flying mounts that makes exploring (which we've already discussed actually removes parts of it) and gathering professions fun to you.

No, I am against instant teleport anywhere without CD, because that is too OP and totally ignore any travel in wow. It affects the game much more than just flying, in a totally different degree.

That is the reason I used in real life examples:

I support your right to ride your bike, car, boat, or jet when you travel, because it is your freedom, and it doesn't affect me. And I will not ban others flying with personal jet just because I don't have one or because I hate flying.

But I am against people to loot free foods/clothes from shops (your free gear vendor in wow analogy). You can claim that is is your "option" and it doesn't affect me if you get free foods. But it will destroy social order and security (same as free gear destroy wow progression), so I disagree.

You can see I made myself very clear here, you can't generalize things of different degree or magnitude, and use the same standard on them.

As for why flying is fun, there are already many answers in this thread, and I don't want to elaborate more. And fun is a very subjective matter.

[Dhrizzle]

No, I am against instant teleport anywhere without CD, because that is too OP and totally ignore any travel in wow. It affects the game much more than just flying, in a totally different degree.

That is the reason I used in real life examples:

I support your right to ride your bike, car, boat, or jet when you travel, because it is your freedom, and it doesn't affect me. And I will not ban others flying with personal jet just because I don't have one or because I hate flying.

But I am against people to loot free foods/clothes from shops (your free gear vendor in wow analogy). You can claim that is is your "option" and it doesn't affect me if you get free foods. But it will destroy social order and security (same as free gear destroy wow progression), so I disagree.

You can see I made myself very clear here, you can't generalize things of different degree or magnitude, and use the same standard on them.

As for why flying is fun, there are already many answers in this thread, and I don't want to elaborate more. And fun is a very subjective matter.

I find it fun soloing Mythic content for transmog, why shouldn't I have the option to do so in the current content if other people can just ignore the ability and spend more time doing it?

Also your real life analogies are absolutely terrible, regardless of your opinion people are not allowed to fly around in private jets or helicopters whenever and wherever they want. I can't fly from my house to the supermarket then home again.

Also why would you be against people having free clothes and food if supplies were infinite and nobody would be losing out from it?

[lappee]

No, I am against instant teleport anywhere without CD, because that is too OP and totally ignore any travel in wow. It affects the game much more than just flying, in a totally different degree.

That is the reason I used in real life examples:

I support your right to ride your bike, car, boat, or jet when you travel, because it is your freedom, and it doesn't affect me. And I will not ban others flying with personal jet just because I don't have one or because I hate flying.

But I am against people to loot free foods/clothes from shops (your free gear vendor in wow analogy). You can claim that is is your "option" and it doesn't affect me if you get free foods. But it will destroy social order and security (same as free gear destroy wow progression), so I disagree.

You can see I made myself very clear here, you can't generalize things of different degree or magnitude, and use the same standard on them.

As for why flying is fun, there are already many answers in this thread, and I don't want to elaborate more. And fun is a very subjective matter.

It wouldn't ignore travel in WoW, it would just cut down the used time. You can still use flying or ground mounts if you wish. Flying skips mobs and terrain, teleportation skips those as well just much faster.

If you want to use such real life examples then WoW would also need to have the same cost on using said things. Only 0.001% of WoWs population would be rich enough to have personal flying.
So yeah, I support your flying as long as you pay 100 million gold to buy the skill. The rest of your example irl is real hard false equivalence.

And as you can see here, I'm not generalizing things of different degree. You say flying is ok but teleportation is bad because teleportation is too OP, then me saying flying is too OP is just as valid and thus shouldn't be implemented. Right?

Other people in this thread have said why they want flying and large majority is because of the being bored of the current terrain because of doing it too many times already. Those are issues with other aspects of game design and if they were done better those people wouldn't ask for flying.
Fun is a subjective matter but I'm asking you why you find it fun.

[rohoz]

yeah, smourne definitely ruined EVERY single season of wrath ever.. not like it only lasted for one season(albeit the longest one, but still)

also you legit only looking at it from the perspective of balance, which isnt the most important thing.. oh and also balance in wrath was pretty good in s6-s7.. s7 was the best season ever

also not everyone had valanyr/smourne.. ALSO on tournaments they werent even allowed

so nah, its not me whos delusional..

s6/s7 when dks murdered everyone and everyone with a functioning brain got gladiator as dk? lmao no pls

[ashblond]

I find it fun soloing Mythic content for transmog, why shouldn't I have the option to do so in the current content if other people can just ignore the ability and spend more time doing it?

Also your real life analogies are absolutely terrible, regardless of your opinion people are not allowed to fly around in private jets or helicopters whenever and wherever they want. I can't fly from my house to the supermarket then home again.

Also why would you be against people having free clothes and food if supplies were infinite and nobody would be losing out from it?

If you find fun "soloing Mythic content for transmog, so I should have the options to do so". That is your opinion, which is fine. But I disagree "people shall be able to solo current mythic raid for fun".

If you think my analogy is terrible, it is fine. you are entitled your opinion. Everyone knows clothes and foods supply is not infinite in our society, I don't know why you even make this unrealistic assumption. Because unlimited free gear is not realistic in wow, and it never was. You are propose us to arguing a non-existent situation.

If you think players shall have free gear vendor, because vendor can offer infinite free gear, that is your opinion, not mine.

[Dartz1979]

I think flying should be like how it was originally designed for.. once you reach maximum level you can purchase it.. the guys dev team had it right during burning crusade and wrath if lich king... then when new teams came in they made pathfinder which wasn't a very good idea creating a time sink too large of a window... cause who wants to wait 6-11 months to have flying when during earlier expansions we were able to have it once we hit max level.. ok im done ranting.

[ashblond]

It wouldn't ignore travel in WoW, it would just cut down the used time. You can still use flying or ground mounts if you wish. Flying skips mobs and terrain, teleportation skips those as well just much faster.

If you want to use such real life examples then WoW would also need to have the same cost on using said things. Only 0.001% of WoWs population would be rich enough to have personal flying.
So yeah, I support your flying as long as you pay 100 million gold to buy the skill. The rest of your example irl is real hard false equivalence.

And as you can see here, I'm not generalizing things of different degree. You say flying is ok but teleportation is bad because teleportation is too OP, then me saying flying is too OP is just as valid and thus shouldn't be implemented. Right?

Other people in this thread have said why they want flying and large majority is because of the being bored of the current terrain because of doing it too many times already. Those are issues with other aspects of game design and if they were done better those people wouldn't ask for flying.
Fun is a subjective matter but I'm asking you why you find it fun.

I think flying is fine and fun, and you think flying is equally OP as instant teleportation in your logic.

We have different opinions and I get it.

[WowIsDead64]

Simple thing. World design is broken. And instead of fixing it or giving flying to compensate all it's problems, Blizzard just keep radio silence and force their broken design. Why did I quit BFA Beta and decided, that I wouldn't buy it? Just because when I wanted to do my first WQ, I realized, that I needed to clear whole canyon of snakes near snake temple in Voldun just to get to this WQ from flight master. And as I had finished leveling in this zone just a day before that, I certainly knew, how much time it would have taken. Why should I do it? Blizzard have decided, that I have to. But I don't want to. That's why I'm unsubbed now, waiting for 8.2 and Blizzard just lose my money due to such stupid reason.

And it's not the only problem. There many problems, that could be minor alone, but together they're just unbearable. Forced PVP, overtuned mobs, overnerfed classes, etc.

[Deleted]

Simple thing. World design is broken. And instead of fixing it or giving flying to compensate all it's problems, Blizzard just keep radio silence and force their broken design. Why did I quit BFA Beta and decided, that I wouldn't buy it? Just because when I wanted to do my first WQ, I realized, that I needed to clear whole canyon of snakes near snake temple in Voldun just to get to this WQ from flight master. And as I had finished leveling in this zone just a day before that, I certainly knew, how much time it would have taken. Why should I do it? Blizzard have decided, that I have to. But I don't want to. That's why I'm unsubbed now, waiting for 8.2 and Blizzard just lose my money due to such stupid reason.

But then you have to do it anyway to get the rep you need for the required achievments for flying. Blizzard always wins.

[lappee]

I think flying is fine and fun, and you think flying is equally OP as instant teleportation in your logic.

We have different opinions and I get it.

Jumping from ground mounts to flying is actually bigger step than from flying to teleportation. Teleportation only lowers the time you need to do for traveling compared to flying but you both skip equal amount of content (as in all the terrain and mobs there).

You can have that opinion but its illogical and its fine, feelings often are illogical but thats why we have discussions about it (logical option are better in general over illogical ones)

I just wanted to understand why you want flying and see if we can actually find the reason for it (and if theres a better solution than flying). In your case it doesn't seem possible (or you just don't want) to find out.

Either way I hope you can see the fallacy in your logics of "Flying adds option" and "more options is good".