So, item levels are getting spiked for no reason. Again.

[The Stormbringer]

You're comparing different things though. This isn't like that at all. With Legion we got a new timeless isle each time. Yes content like dungeons does need to be kept relevant.

Timeless Isle is a good example of one thing, it was a catch up area. It was also the ONLY area worth doing and previous areas became obsolete. Dungeons became obsolete, previous world content became obsolete. This way fixes that.

This is better for players, this is better for guilds.

I still think there's a better solution than the current one. Making everything that we've already been doing hand out the same rewards as the new stuff straight up seems bad. Admittedly I'd be less bothered if instead the old systems just handed out currency that could be used to get new rewards.

[rohoz]

I still think there's a better solution than the current one. Making everything that we've already been doing hand out the same rewards as the new stuff straight up seems bad. Admittedly I'd be less bothered if instead the old systems just handed out currency that could be used to get new rewards.

so easy launch content for rewards better than launch content

quelle surprise

[Jimmyw]

The new content coming in could reward higher ilvl for sure! But why is OLD content getting a bump i ilvl rewards?

[Usernameforforums]

Bliz just don’t know what to do anymore. They did a stat squish for warlords and it increased again, equal to or greater than previously, in legion. Then they do a item level squish but again, the trend is starting to show again.

[Elias01]

Just because you don't understand the reason, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist...

Also, stop focusing so much on the numbers, and how stagnant you appear to want to make progression across tiers... Enjoy the content, or go play something new (that does the same thing, but seems like the best thing since sliced bread, because it's new to you ; ).

I have news for you. Players actualy did quit and moved to something els becouse of current state of game. But we dont want wow die becouse of stupid dev decisions..We want wow get better and not just let it die.

- - - Updated - - -

The new content coming in could reward higher ilvl for sure! But why is OLD content getting a bump i ilvl rewards?

Becouse Blizzards thinks by letting people catch up in easy mods and showering casual audience with free epics will retaon them. Too bad those players grtting bored of endless treadmill withing patches and quiting.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

This has happened literally every raid ever for all of time?

Just they've started including dungeons and WQs and Warfronts so the game doesn't become Raid or Die the moment the second tier drops?

And raids are still going to drop the objectively best gear if done on their highest difficulty?







I can see complaints that this is against the spirit of their number squish, but you sound like one of those "let's have an expansion without iLevel" folks.

[Averrix]

Yep, I finally let my sub run out. Finally put an end to the mindless grind for nothing.

[Elias01]

Do you know how power progression supotu look like for dungeons with 1 difficulty?

You go there undergeared. You struggle and wipe. Instead of pulling pack of 5 npcs you have to pull 1 at time. Use cc, interupts, snares, etc..

Than you are here in middle of tier with better gear. You go into same dungeon but instead off cc 4 out of 5 npcs. You have to cc only 2 and and you also clear dungeon bit faster. You still have to pay attention to mechanics but instead one shottong you you can now take extra hit.

At the end of expansion you are fully geared. You go again into same dungeon. Instead of using cc you pull entire group and aoe it down. Enncounter mechanics instead of blowing you 40% hp the blow you 30%. Some can still kill ypu. This is proper way how to do progression. You dont need itemlvl scale, itemlvl bumbs, difficulty leves and all other crap. You only need currency, craft material, rep, etc.. to have reason to go there.

[nagual]

Yep, I finally let my sub run out. Finally put an end to the mindless grind for nothing.

Good. Now you have more time to bitch around on the forums.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Do you know how power progression supotu look like for dungeons with 1 difficulty?

You go there undergeared. You struggle and wipe. Instead of pulling pack of 5 npcs you have to pull 1 at time. Use cc, interupts, snares, etc..

Than you are here in middle of tier with better gear. You go into same dungeon but instead off cc 4 out of 5 npcs. You have to cc only 2 and and you also clear dungeon bit faster. You still have to pay attention to mechanics but instead one shottong you you can now take extra hit.

At the end of expansion you are fully geared. You go again into same dungeon. Instead of using cc you pull entire group and aoe it down. Enncounter mechanics instead of blowing you 40% hp the blow you 30%. Some can still kill ypu. This is proper way how to do progression. You dont need itemlvl scale, itemlvl bumbs, difficulty leves and all other crap. You only need currency, craft material, rep, etc.. to have reason to go there.

Okay.

And where does your reason to go there come from?

Currency? Crafting Material? Rep? Gold? All of that is invested.... into iLevel. So you become more powerful, so you can reach that middle point or end point.

Now you can argue Blizz should just implement gear up to iLevel 500 in 8.0, but you won't see 500 gear until the final raid, but that is still chasing iLevel bumps that would come every new tier. Also your single-difficulty world devolves into Raid or Die but that's another issue entirely.

[siskokid21]

Wow. Just... Wow. Here's the text from the post, for those who haven't read it.

- New Maximum Item Level: With great challenges come great rewards and the maximum possible item level will go up to 425.
- Battle for Darkshore Warfront: Battle for Darkshore rewards will also increase to 400 from both the outdoor boss and from Warfront quest that can be completed once per cycle. The difficulty of the Warfront will increase however, and the item level required to queue will increase to 335. These changes will go into effect after the current Warfront cycle has ended. Until that time, players will still receive Season 1 rewards.
- World Quest Emissary Rewards: World Quest Emissary weapon and armor rewards will also now scale up to 385 based on the player’s own item level. Rewards from the original Battle for Azeroth Launch World bosses will remain at item level 355 to stay on par with Uldir.
- Dungeon Rewards and Difficulty: The difficulty of Heroic and Mythic dungeons will also be increase as follows: Normal–340, Heroic–355, and Mythic– 370 (baseline).
- Mythic Keystone Dungeons and PvP: During the first week of Season 2 Mythic Keystone Dungeon rewards will be capped at Mythic 6 quality (item level 385). PvP Season 2 end-of-match rewards will be capped at 385.
- Seals of Wartorn Fate: Seals of Wartorn Fate are not being reset and this same currency can be used for Battle of Dazar’alor and Season 2 bonus rolls; the cap on how many can be held at once remains at 5.

Meh, enough is enough.

I'm not putting any more money into this because, frankly, this design team just hasn't got a clue why its systems are broken, and why so many players are resolutely unhappy with it. With a single raid tier, the item level has been well over doubled from what the expansion starts with, and rather than keeping content relevant it just gets made laughably pointless with a shallow system that players want sheer luck from in order to gear past the spots of what they're actually doing.

Welcome to Diablo 3, built by a team that has fundamentally no interest in making a game that its players are interested in.

Dungeons just jump 30 points, while WQs jump to 385.

Jesus.

Catchup mechanics have been in the game since Vanilla, this is no different. It's honestly absurd how everyone has a different reason for why the game is bad, decides to post on the forums about why, and then claims that everyone else feels the same way. The game isn't as bad as people are spouting on about, and if anything we should be excited for the new raid tier and M+ season that are starting. The casuals are crying in force lately, and the silent majority is actually playing and enjoying the game in the meantime.

[Swalload]

Their is no tier to tier progression anymore.

In Vanilla, TBC, you actually had to do tier to tier to tier.

Now? Just hop on, do a few world quests, hit up LFR, ta-da! All caught up in 1-2 days. Its hilarious at this point and one of the reasons I just don't have it in me to play anymore. The catch up mechanics have ruined any semblance of progression this game had.

The catch up mechanics LITERALLY do not affect how YOU play the game. So why do you care? You are literally upset about what OTHER PEOPLE get. You are by definition an asshole. You're supposed to do your thing and not get offended by what other people do.

Did you complain about people in TBC being carried in raids on their fresh 70's because the catch up was cancerous? Did you yell at people who are not happy about doing the same content on their alt that they already did on their main just because you want it to be slow and tedious as fuck for NOTHING?

You should fucking go back to live in a cave and discover fire. You should be forced to do the entire progress, not just have the priviledge of being born in this century. Do get some black plague for fun, I heard it was a blast, it should be a requiremnt that everyone gets through that before enjoying technology.

You are a true idiot and this is not said as an insult, it's just a fact statement. Realize it, live with it, deal with it.

[Alvito]

It's been nothing like this 'for a long time'.

Absolutely nothing like it.

It largely started in Legion, but was nowhere near as bad as this.

Those arguing to the contrary are largely telling me that they've been playing the game for a few years; at best.

The item level always jumps raid tier to raid tier. The jump has been lower in the past sure. Most of that came from 1 or 2 difficulties as the number went up so did the item level inflation. The worst of it being in MoP LFR prior to SoO was below the previous heroic raid gear in item level. Essentially this allowed raiders doing the highest content at the time would get no item level rewards for the next LFR. With SoO this changed for good though. SoO LFR gear was higher than all of the previous raid gear which was also compounded by the fact you had 4 difficulties jumping item levels up faster and faster too. As for the dungeons they did the same thing in the past just not as often. They also at the same time bump up the difficulty slightly in the dungeons so if it hurts anybody it is the fresh max level characters since their is a higher bar for entry.

[mingarrubia]

Won't matter anyway, because mobs will continue scaling.

[Akibaboy]

Yep. It very much looks like the "Season" concept from Diablo has sneaked its way into WoW. They are aiming to reset gear/power at every season change. It would be nice to get a dev watercooler about this but... yeah, lol.

Yeah, they're so sneaky! They sneaked Diablo 3 into WoW 4 years before Diablo 3 launched!

FYI WoW has been seasonal since WotLK officially, unofficially since TBC - With each patch, badge gear in WotLK was pushed up and awarded better items then the previous raid. Therefor, when Ulduar launched, you didn't need to do Naxx, Trial made Ulduar unnecessary, and ICC the same to Trial... just grind badges and do the new 5 mans and you won't need to do the last raid tier. Been in the game for over 10 years, long before D3.

To the OP, saying "ilvl has increased by over half!" - doesn't understand the squish or how end game growth has ever worked in the history of WoW. 1) Squish means that while you see 300-400 ilvl growth, that's only really applicable to level 120, 1-300 is irrelevant because the values only really mean anything to the expected stat weights of each level bracket. 2) ilvl has always been a hockey stick with each max level break point, otherwise end game would be pointless. ilvl and power growth don't even really serve the function everyone expects them to do - they're engagement checks: If you want to do this content, you'll need to play the game a little. If you suck, you'll need to play a little more. People whining over ilvl and their BiS, etc. have a fundamental misunderstanding of the purpose of gear in games.

[lappee]

The catch up mechanics LITERALLY do not affect how YOU play the game. So why do you care? You are literally upset about what OTHER PEOPLE get. You are by definition an asshole. You're supposed to do your thing and not get offended by what other people do.

Thats not a definition for an asshole though, unless you mean every single person on the planet is an asshole because that definition makes everyone an asshole.

Human interaction is the same in game and irl, so if people get the same rewards as you do for less work then there is going to be a backlash. That doesn't make people assholes though, it makes them human.

[Soluna]

Wasn't the Cata vendor gear 359 (equal to normal), while heroic was dropping 372?

I am not sure if you are the guy I originally replied to, but the person I replied to said that the badge vendor would offer gear that is on par with the best gear you could get the previous tier. If I remember correctly, in 4.3 patch for example, the badge vendor offered 397 gear, dragon soul dropped 410 ilvl on heroic, with 416 ilvl weapons from deathwing, while 4.2 raid, firelands, dropped 397 gear when it came to Ragnaros' loot table. This means that the badge vendor offered in that case for example the same ilvl gear as the previous tier's max ilvl.

[Swalload]

Thats not a definition for an asshole though, unless you mean every single person on the planet is an asshole because that definition makes everyone an asshole.

Human interaction is the same in game and irl, so if people get the same rewards as you do for less work then there is going to be a backlash. That doesn't make people assholes though, it makes them human.

You're generalizing. I'm happy the current elementary school students have better english classes than I did because in my time it was shit and we told them it was shit. Now it changed.

Also, and much more importantly, WoW is not a job or a chore and does not require much effort, it's just a video game. So wishing that people are stuck behind you in fucking boring content with their alts just to make yourself feel like what you did really mattered is a very asshole-ish attitude. Look forward, not backward. Terrible human beings think like you, not good ones, don't put us all in the same basket.

[Elias01]

Okay.

And where does your reason to go there come from?

Currency? Crafting Material? Rep? Gold? All of that is invested.... into iLevel. So you become more powerful, so you can reach that middle point or end point.

Now you can argue Blizz should just implement gear up to iLevel 500 in 8.0, but you won't see 500 gear until the final raid, but that is still chasing iLevel bumps that would come every new tier. Also your single-difficulty world devolves into Raid or Die but that's another issue entirely.

No it isnt. Becouse your previous effort would not be invalided by this. You have no ketchup. You have to go intp dungeon gear up and struggle. After 2-3 weeks you can go and buy or craft 1 item. Thats it this is your dungeon progression. Ofc you would have to also remove difficulty levels for raida so LFR will not make dugeons absolote and power creep would not make dungeon trivial. See now you even have interesting raiding again with set high end goal with exciting rewards.

[PLS]

I hit 120 last week on my rogue, in one reset I'm now 373. I haven't even finished setting up my ui since I last played in Legion. I'm leveling a mage right now, he will ding this week and I expect him to be 390+ next week.

That is not gratifying game play, I'm leveling a mage because my rogue can't progress with out massive RNG. The main thing I'm motivated to grind (AP) I can't.

It's not a carrot on a stick if you just get the carrot anyways or if the carrot might be an apple or a pear or a rotten lemon randomly turns out to be better than the carrot.

And yes length of time matters, the only catch up mechanics of this magnitude where when a new xpac launched. Let's not argue in absolutes previously it was pvp gear, that allowed you to "skip" content but you had to pvp and the stats where usually wrong, some crafted stuff, odd vendor stuff. That is no where near to what this is.

Remember in expansions or for ults if I was looking for a guild, I'd find one around my gear level and progress with them. They might be a tier or two behind the top guilds but it was satisfying character progression. Character power is very important in immersion, everything scaling all the time is not satisfying.

Effort justification and cognitive dissonance have been thrown out the window, in this downward spiral of instant gratification.

You used to have atlas loot, know each item by name, you probably stood in org or shat, with your dressing room open and thinking about how bad ass you'd be when you got those items. That made you think about a boss, how to get there faster better, you'd usually end up being more immersed in the story because of this.

More rewards more often but not target-able, or less rewards less often but mostly target-able. I know now I'm for the later of the two. I've never cared less about the loot table of a boss because its an rng on rng shit show of what I'm going to get. And there is a good chance I'll get a worse itemized item that WF or TF thats "better".

You remember living with your parents and all the shit you took for granted. Yes if given the option people will take the easy route (ie for free from your parents), but I bet the first big thing you bought when you moved out, a nice blanket, a good mattress, your own computer. You cared and appreciated those thing a shit load more after having to work for it.

Catch up mechanisms that just hand you loot, is not the same as having an un-gated path to catching up.

I don't want chores that hand me loot. I can't believe I have to ask to work for my gear, and stop this capped garbage, it has always existed but never to this extent or requiring so little time to actually hit those caps.

You know how you prevent people from just grinding out something and calling it a day? Put in so much grind-able content that there isn't enough hours in the day to do it all.

In Black Temple I would kite trash packs for hours killing some then letting them reset, with one other person in raid to get them trash drops and would level enchanting to enchant my rings and then drop it and level another profession for triple profession buffs. These were not "game breaking" they were what offered truly unlimited progression, and I could do it because we would have those items for a long time.

Why its so important to talk about this stuff now? The pressure is off, the stock price crashed the cycle of we must squeeze out another 7-15% this year to make our shareholders happy and company look good is basically broken.

All these tricks to take advantage of subscription metrics, ie make it easy for that person that re-subs and buys gold to get back into the game, play through the month of relevant content and then quit, yet still get the equivalent of a full year subscription. Micro transactions to milk every dime.

You've beat the dead horse, take your IP, leave, and just focus on a great product with out all these financial metrics influencing decisions.

This got off topic and was rantish oh well, I still love his game.