Horde ends up losing everything they gained through their war campaign

[Varodoc]

You Alliance babies

So mature.

the only major loss there is Gilneas and Theramore BY THE HORDE

Gilneas, Theramore, Ashenvale (during Cataclysm), Thal'darah Grove, Hillsbrad, Southshore, and the Night Elves were also being pushed out of Azshara.

Andorhal was crawling with undead it was lost well before the horde came there.

No, half of Andorhal was retaken by the Alliance before it was lost again to the Forsaken.

And on my records Gilneas was not even with the Alliance as Greymane turned his back on the Alliance.

Then Dazar'alor doesn't count, since the Zandalari aren't affiliated with the Horde yet.

Also, Gilneas counts because Greymane eventually rejoined the Alliance, and if you played the Forsaken storyline in Silverpine, then you'll see that Gilneas was occupied by Worgen and 7th Legion troops, before it was eventually abandoned.

The Alliance have lost Theramore...which was a military outpost directing troops to the barrens and managed to wipe out a few Horde villages in the area.

It didn't wipe out a few Horde villages, it wiped out only Taurajo, which was also a military outpost. Theramore also wasn't just a military outpost but a major city and melting pot of Lordaeronians and Thalassian Elves.

Garrosh had the full right to attack Southshore after all the bullshit the Alliance tried to pull in the barrens.

If Garrosh didn't want problems with the Alliance in the Barrens, then perhaps he shouldn't have vowed to conquer all of Kalimdor.

[Derah]

And the Alliance gained nothing from the pre-patch's campaign. Tit for tat.

Right, a pre-patch, for an entire vanilla expansion AND its first major content patch.

Yep, that seems fair.

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Also: the Alliance does lose someone: Gelbin Mekkatorque. "Ah, but he's just frozen, he can be thawed!" To which I reply: yeah, just like Rastakhan could be resurrected. So, neither side lost someone, by that logic.

The difference here is big though.

Rastakhan has a successor in his daughter, meaning he is not coming back. Who does gelbin have to replace him? Also if you seriously think they're permanently killing him off EXACTLY when they gave him a unique model, I have this bridge I wanna sell you.

[KronoFett]

So mature.



Gilneas, Theramore, Ashenvale (during Cataclysm), Thal'darah Grove, Hillsbrad, Southshore, and the Night Elves were also being pushed out of Azshara.

No, half of Andorhal was retaken by the Alliance before it was lost again to the Forsaken.

Then Dazar'alor doesn't count, since the Zandalari aren't affiliated with the Horde yet.

Also, Gilneas counts because Greymane eventually rejoined the Alliance, and if you played the Forsaken storyline in Silverpine, then you'll see that Gilneas was occupied by Worgen and 7th Legion troops, before it was eventually abandoned.


It didn't wipe out a few Horde villages, it wiped out only Taurajo, which was also a military outpost. Theramore also wasn't just a military outpost but a major city and melting pot of Lordaeronians and Thalassian Elves.


If Garrosh didn't want problems with the Alliance in the Barrens, then perhaps he shouldn't have vowed to conquer all of Kalimdor.

You are right the Alliance attacking Zandalar was really stupid and wasn't even a attack on the horde. The Zandalari have kept the Kul Tiran's alone and have never tried to attack them. If anything this is probably all going in Sylvana's favor. The Alliance also lost hundreds of men in a fake attack on the North throwing all their lives away to have the Zandalari army away from the capital.

My point still stands on Theramore. Jaina should have never let the Alliance use its port to bring weapons and allow the construction of military outpost in the barrens. She is a moron if she thought her city was safe. Also some land was lost in Ashenvale, not everything. It's now probably all lost and in Horde control now in BFA however. I hope the writers develop the horde in this area to have Orgrimar actually flourish. Orgrimar has poor farm land and constantly needs to hunt for food. Would love to see this expanded upon. But I doubt the current writers would even bother.

[rowaasr13]

My point still stands on Theramore. Jaina should have never let the Alliance use its port to bring weapons and allow the construction of military outpost in the barrens.

Why? Did other side - Horde - had done so? No? Then fuck it.

[Varodoc]

The Zandalari have kept the Kul Tiran's alone and have never tried to attack them.

Except that they didn't, since in one of the World Quests the Zandalari have enslaved Kul Tiran captives.

If anything this is probably all going in Sylvana's favor.

Nathanos literally states that the Horde is losing on all fronts after the Battle.

The Alliance also lost hundreds of men in a fake attack on the North throwing all their lives away to have the Zandalari army away from the capital.

Look, if numbers mattered, the Trolls and Tauren would be extinct already.

Jaina should have never let the Alliance use its port to bring weapons and allow the construction of military outpost in the barrens. She is a moron if she thought her city was safe.

She wasn't a moron, she was smart enough that Garrosh, as he himself literally stated, would not tolerate the presence of a major Human city on Kalimdor, and would come for her after the Kaldorei were defeated.

What the heck was she supposed to do?? Just let Garrosh steamroll through the Kaldorei? No one is denying that she turned Theramore into a military target (though its fall was inevitable since Garrosh wanted to conquer ALL of Kalimdor), but let's not act like she was stupid.

Also some land was lost in Ashenvale, not everything.

The middle of the land was destroyed by the Cataclysm, the Horde was advancing and chopping down huge portions of the forest and the Night Elves were reduced to controlling a few isolated settlements.

[steelballfc]

If you want to narrow the scope to what you specifically see in war campaigns ... I guess? But at the beginning of this war the Horde destroys their second or third major city (if you count theramore) ... and then lays a huge trap and plagues their own city, killing tons of Alliance troops. The Horde are in a great position, especially since the Alliance basically just reacts to things and loses over and over.

the point here, which is not your fault, that when you say we killed tons of alliance soldiers, how many, and how big is the alliance or the horde, so i can say it was effective, like if we killed 1k from 5k, or 1k from 1M ?

[Dagoth Ur]

yea but theres one problem....

baine.

the only thing hed give is not a speech, but his other horn lol.

Scariest thing to think about is what he'll be sending after that, when he runs out of horns.

[Mardux]

Jaina was justified in kicking Aethas off the council and telling them all to get bent when they allowed him back in. It's a matter of trust. Just in the same way you can't trust someone convicted of embezzlement to be employed at a bank, you could never trust Aethas again after the events in MoP. Aethas betrayed the Kirin Tor when he covered up that his Sunreavers violated the neutrality. Any reasonable person would assume he would be a liability to do so again, like the Legion agreeing to spare the Sunreavers/BElves in exchange for him betraying them. Calling Jaina's refusal to accept Aethas' reinstatement "a petty quest for revenge" is laughable. He didn't betray Jaina. He betrayed the Kirin Tor's calling.

Whats laughable is your twisted rendition of the events that took place. Aethas didn't "cover up" anything. Turned a blind eye, sure, but there was no coverup. He simply banked on the wrath of one bigot (jaina) being less sever than the wrath of another bigot (garrosh). he though garrosh would murder more belves than jaina for what happened (debatable).

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Except that they didn't, since in one of the World Quests the Zandalari have enslaved Kul Tiran captives.

Was this wq before or after the alliance decided to take zandilari royalty and toss them in a dungeon?

[Minikin]

Scariest thing to think about is what he'll be sending after that, when he runs out of horns.

hahahah

can you imagine. im wondering if thats why they gave him bigger horns when they updated his model. so one day the player doesnt have to deliver "other" parts XD.

[Varodoc]

Was this wq before or after the alliance decided to take zandilari royalty and toss them in a dungeon?

This was after the Zandalari Empire declared war on the Alliance and attempted to siege Ironforge. If Rastakhan didn't want problems with the Alliance, then perhaps he should have put a leash on his Prophet dog.

[Ielenia]

The difference here is big though.

Rastakhan has a successor in his daughter, meaning he is not coming back. Who does gelbin have to replace him? Also if you seriously think they're permanently killing him off EXACTLY when they gave him a unique model, I have this bridge I wanna sell you.

Every change in this game is "permanent" until they decide to change it again. And just because Rastakhan has a daughter does not necessarily mean he's not coming back.

[rowaasr13]

Whats laughable is your twisted rendition of the events that took place. Aethas didn't "cover up" anything. Turned a blind eye, sure, but there was no coverup. He simply banked on the wrath of one bigot (jaina) being less sever than the wrath of another bigot (garrosh). he though garrosh would murder more belves than jaina for what happened (debatable).

Lol at any hordie calling Jaina a bigot. She stood aside from murder of her father just to give you chance to live. And once again, only those who attacked Jaina were killed. After they were given not one, but TWO other alternatives: 1) GTFO Dalaran, 2) get in cells. Stupid haughty BEs literally done "fuck you officer, I don't care about your laws, here's my big gun" suicide by cop. What ELSE really you did expect from Jaina when someone attacks her? Sit down and cry?

[Grazrug]

This was after the Zandalari Empire declared war on the Alliance and attempted to siege Ironforge. If Rastakhan didn't want problems with the Alliance, then perhaps he should have put a leash on his Prophet dog.

That's what you get for illegally occupying troll lands

[Varodoc]

That's what you get for illegally occupying troll lands

Except that the Trolls in turn built their temple cities upon rightful Black Empire land. They are thieves too.

[Kwento]

Except that the Trolls in turn built their temple cities upon rightful Black Empire land. They are thieves too.

At the time of troll’s rise the Black Empire was long gone. Something that doesn’t exist cannot own anything.

[LuminaL]

its not like the zone was almost full horde already



Thats was not the reason for the attack, neither "horde", it was sylvanas paranoia

and what was she paranoid of? alliance attacking them and night elf serving as the closest military base of operation to the orgrimar.

and yes it was hordes reason. hordes "warchief" decided for horde to attack because of that.

[Syegfryed]

and what was she paranoid of? alliance attacking them and night elf serving as the closest military base of operation to the orgrimar.

and yes it was hordes reason. hordes "warchief" decided for horde to attack because of that.

She was not paranoid about the elves but about Genn and Anduin forces in Easter kingdoms

[Bigby]

Almost makes up for the Alliance gaining nothing from the Cata/MoP war.

And the pre-patch.

[Sarrgoth]

The scepter of the tides returned to Kul Tiras
Jaina's brother is given back to her
Zandalari Navy half destroyed

And what did the Alliance gain out of their war campaign?
They succesfully defeated the San'layn
They killed some blood trolls
They succesfully destroyed the troll navy

And the Horde loses Rastakhan while the Alliance loses... no one.
As a Horde you literally are an NPC in this storyline if you don't support Glugfang and the Alliance over Sylvanas.

How isn't the story bias? Yeah Horde can choose 2 shitty options instead of getting the baseline shitty one. Woo hoo.

If you read Before The Storm, it was already stated that the Alliance was superior in terms of military strength and technology. Several times it was said that Sylvanas did not want that war. But Sylvanas keeps pulling stuff out of her ass, so if anything, up until now. This war has been nothing but Horde biased.

And before you ask, I'm a Horde main.

[Tyrathius]

Just wait for the big reveal that -surprise!- Derek was already brainwashed and Baine did exactly what Sylvanas wanted him to do.

Because nothing ever doesn't go the way Sylvanas wants. Ever.