[Spoilers] Alliance Cinematic for Battle of Dazar'alor

[ausoin]

I wouldn't say he was justified as Talanjis forces were supporting the horde and war was still on between horde and alliance and she was helping horde with her own troops. Zandalari at that point would send message to KT which would demand Tandred and if KT would refuse it then war would have being justified but Alliance nor KT never sent message to Rastakhan on which they demanded Talanji to be given to them as war criminal or her to punished. If KT or alliance did that they would have being justified.

No but nobody sends any messages, Tandred attacks the capital of Zandalar, no messages sent or recieved, Tandred position remains the same, the lord admiral doesnt give a shit that he attacked, to you would the Zandalari then be in the wrong if they attacked Boraus because of Tandred actions?

Yeah they killed them but on previous missions Theramore troops were hostile faction which attacked Rexxar and Rokhan countless times which were sent to meet with jaina as diplomats which give them diplomatic immunity. Attacking a diplomat is declaration of war.

No they werent, you are just making stuff up, Daelin green colored soldiers were in the ambush.

Yeah and Lei Shen had being dead over 10k years and mogu empire which was only logical heir to the item was destroyed too over 10k years ago. So technically none owned it.

YOU SAID that an individual can own it, well that Mogu was an under orders to guard it by his commander, he owned it in Lei Shen absence.

[Terongor]

No but nobody sends any messages, Tandred attacks the capital of Zandalar, no messages sent or recieved, Tandred position remains the same, the lord admiral doesnt give a shit that he attacked, to you would the Zandalari then be in the wrong if they attacked Boraus because of Tandred actions?



No they werent, you are just making stuff up, Daelin green colored soldiers were in the ambush.



YOU SAID that an individual can own it, well that Mogu was an under orders to guard it by his commander, he owned it in Lei Shen absence.

Yes Zandalari would be wrong then.

Mission were you turned into wyverns and helped the darkspear to retreat to inlands one enemy forces name was theramore forces and they were attacking Echo isles.

and when Daelin arrived to Theramore and you had to escape from there and Theramore npcs attacked Rexxar and as you were sent by thrall there to negotiate with Jaina that means rexxar was an diplomat.

Guarding doesn't in any universe translate to ownership.

[ausoin]

Yes Zandalari would be wrong then.

i'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

Mission were you turned into wyverns and helped the darkspear to retreat to inlands one enemy forces name was theramore forces and they were attacking Echo isles.

No I think they were all grenn coloured and not under the Theremore title.

The ambush were all Daelen green units.

Guarding doesn't in any universe translate to ownership.

He was commanded to guard a artifact that belongs to the Mogu, he certanily has more rights to it then the Horde.

[Terongor]

i'll give you the benefit of the doubt.



No I think they were all grenn coloured and not under the Theremore title.

The ambush were all Daelen green units.




He was commanded to guard a artifact that belongs to the Mogu, he certanily has more rights to it then the Horde.

It takes too long to played the install wc3 and play the campaign to that point.
https://wow.gamepedia.com/A_Blaze_of_Glory_(WC3_Orc)
But there reads that Theramore guards sided with Daelin atleast, but as they were diplomats in Theramore the ruler of the nations is resbonsible for their safety, but Jaina never used her forces nor fought againist KT forces to help Rexxar which still broke the diplomatic immunity.

The artifact belonged to the mogu empire not to the race itself.

[Kwento]

That's not "just bursted". That's bursted after you've sent dinosaurs to attack THEIR capital, stole their artifacts, and your buddies invaded their lands shouting "we'll conquer everything". If Zandalari was any realistic they would see it as "well, we see why they're angry at us and today they bested us".

I haven’t sent dinosaurs anywhere, don’t worry.
Abyssal Staff was stolen by the Horde.
Capital was attacked by Talanji’s troops after she was thrown in jail in Stormwind. An attack on royalty is usually a grave insult to the country.
“Buddie’s” actions aren’t equal to Zandalari actions.

[ausoin]

It takes too long to played the install wc3 and play the campaign to that point.
https://wow.gamepedia.com/A_Blaze_of_Glory_(WC3_Orc)
But there reads that Theramore guards sided with Daelin atleast, but as they were diplomats in Theramore the ruler of the nations is resbonsible for their safety, but Jaina never used her forces nor fought againist KT forces to help Rexxar which still broke the diplomatic immunity.

Dealen didnt show up in Theremore then, there werent Theremore diplomats since Daelen didnt took controll of the city at that point. Thrall only knew an emmisary from the humans would come, but its wasnt a Theremore emmisary. Even the assasin was confused when Rexar mentioned Jaina.

The artifact belonged to the mogu empire not to the race itself.

But as you said the individual can own it, an individual from the mogu empire, and he was there for thousands of years guarding it in its name, he has far more right to it then the Horde.

[Terongor]

Dealen didnt show up in Theremore then, there werent Theremore diplomats since Daelen didnt took controll of the city at that point. Thrall only knew an emmisary from the humans would come, but its wasnt a Theremore emmisary. Even the assasin was confused when Rexar mentioned Jaina.



But as you said the individual can own it, an individual from the mogu empire, and he was there for thousands of years guarding it in its name, he has far more right to it then the Horde.

Thrall sent Rexxar during second mission to theramore to ask what was going on with these attacks, which means a job of an diplomat and Rexxar arrived there and after Jaina found out the forces attacking orcs were KT forces and after which they returned to Theramore and Jaina was going explain then the situation to Rexxar but Daelin arrived then and sent his forces to attack Rexxar who still was diplomat sent by thrall to negotiate with Jaina and Theramore forces didn't protect nor help them and neither did Jaina which means they broke the diplomatic immunity by not guarenteening diplomats safety and protecting diplomat withing their lands.

as he was ghost at that point and was only tasked to protect it and claiming it as his propety would be betrayal against Lei Shens memory from Mogu PoV, so he could have claim to it but he didn't claim atleast to our knowledge which is all we need. Also streching the fact that he was only a guardiang and not even a keeper of divine bell, which is huge differance as guardings only is to keep it safe and not take control of it.

[ausoin]

Thrall sent Rexxar during second mission to theramore to ask what was going on with these attacks, which means a job of an diplomat and Rexxar arrived there and after Jaina found out the forces attacking orcs were KT forces and after which they returned to Theramore and Jaina was going explain then the situation to Rexxar but Daelin arrived then and sent his forces to attack Rexxar who still was diplomat sent by thrall to negotiate with Jaina and Theramore forces didn't protect nor help them and neither did Jaina which means they broke the diplomatic immunity by not guarenteening diplomats safety and protecting diplomat withing their lands.

Daelen has usurped Jaina leadership, it was no longer her lands, Thrall knew Jaina didnt break anything, Dealen then used her tropps against the Horde during the siege, thats that. The point with this is going back to the topic that the Alliance couldnt tell the diffrience between Zandalari Rasthakhan soldiers to Talanji soldiers, and killing them is not a warcrime, they fought back just like Jaina guards under Dealen did.

as he was ghost at that point and was only tasked to protect it and claiming it as his propety would be betrayal against Lei Shens memory from Mogu PoV, so he could have claim to it but he didn't claim atleast to our knowledge which is all we need. Also streching the fact that he was only a guardiang and not even a keeper of divine bell, which is huge differance as guardings only is to keep it safe and not take control of it.

He doesnt need to claim it outright, but between the Horde and him he has more right to it. The mere fact that they are guardians there that guard it for their own plans for the empire means the Horde doesnt own it, they own shit. The night elves arrived first, killed the guardians and took it, so they stealed it from the Mogu, not the Horde.

[Terongor]

Daelen has usurped Jaina leadership, it was no longer her lands, Thrall knew Jaina didnt break anything, Dealen then used her tropps against the Horde during the siege, thats that. The point with this is going back to the topic that the Alliance couldnt tell the diffrience between Zandalari Rasthakhan soldiers to Talanji soldiers, and killing them is not a warcrime, they fought back just like Jaina guards under Dealen did.


He doesnt need to claim it outright, but between the Horde and him he has more right to it. The mere fact that they are guardians there that guard it for their own plans for the empire means the Horde doesnt own it, they own shit.

Well I have give you that, but aiming to kill Rastakhan was a warcrime.

Archeological defitions still coun that Horde had more right to than the alliance is the only which counts on this conversation.

[ausoin]

Well I have give you that, but aiming to kill Rastakhan was a warcrime.

Aim was not to kill Rastakhan, he choosed to fight back.

Archeological defitions still coun that Horde had more right to than the alliance is the only which counts on this conversation.

Archeological real life doesnt include magical spirits, the NE got there first, the Horde didnt took it yet, they defeated the guardians and then they took it. They didnt steal it from the Horde, because to steal it the Horde has to own it first, which they didnt.

[Terongor]

Aim was not to kill Rastakhan, he choosed to fight back.



Archeological real life doesnt include magical spirits, the NE got there first, the Horde didnt took it yet, they defeated the guardians and then they took it. They didnt steal it from the Horde, because to steal it the Horde has to own it first, which they didnt.

Prisoning, force vassalising or anything else done towards him would be still considered a warcrime. Towards only one they could do that would be Talanji, but as Rastakhan was innocent it still was a war crime.

Also what would you do if army of bloodthirsty barbarians(He called humans that) attack your city and kill your troops and march towards you? Offer them tea and biscuits?

So? even if you kill its guardiang it still doesn't give you the right to take it. As such Horde had the archeological rights and also we had in 1900's century rules in even archelogy and they would be very dicrimitorial towards ghosts. Also as we take the archeological rules here Horde had the first right to it as such alliance stole it.

Also don't you think arguing about the second things is pointless as we are not arguing about the point it sprung from?

[ausoin]

Prisoning, force vassalising or anything else done towards him would be still considered a warcrime. Towards only one they could do that would be Talanji, but as Rastakhan was innocent it still was a war crime.

A warcrime from today meaning? Because if so both the Alliance and Horde commited cuntless things that is today would be regarded as war crimes.

Examples of war crimes include intentionally killing civilians or prisoners, torturing, destroying civilian property, taking hostages, performing a perfidy, raping, using child soldiers, pillaging, declaring that no quarter will be given

Also what would you do if army of bloodthirsty barbarians(He called humans that) attack your city and kill your troops and march towards you? Offer them tea and biscuits?

He still didnt surrender, it made sense he didnt, but at the end of the day he fought back.

So? even if you kill its guardiang it still doesn't give you the right to take it. As such Horde had the archeological rights and also we had in 1900's century rules in even archelogy and they would be very dicrimitorial towards ghosts. Also as we take the archeological rules here Horde had the first right to it as such alliance stole it.

It doesnt, the NE stole it, but they didnt stole it from the Horde. Garrosh captured and tortured a mogu, (war crime!) that doesnt give him the right either, he can stole it, but the NE beat him to it. Cant have right that came through a war crime.

Also don't you think arguing about the second things is pointless as we are not arguing about the point it sprung from?

Yes.

[Zandalariprelate]

Exactly.

He's created so many inventions for the alliance since the Second War (the Deeprun Tram even!). He probably even came up with the schematics for the alliance gunships.

He may not always be on the front lines, he sure as hell has crafted things that's been used on 'em for ages.

But he will return for Mechagon storyline and probably will do some friendship with the fallout gnomes over there after defeating their mad king.

I hope he and galliwyx get more spotlight, they are very funny and probably the best thing outside of this joke of storyline

[Terongor]

A warcrime from today meaning? Because if so both the Alliance and Horde commited cuntless things that is today would be regarded as war crimes.






He still didnt surrender, it made sense he didnt, but at the end of the day he fought back.



It doesnt, the NE stole it, but they didnt stole it from the Horde. Garrosh captured and tortured a mogu, (war crime!) that doesnt give him the right either, he can stole it, but the NE beat him to it. Cant have right that came through a war crime.



Yes.

War crimes like the ones the blamed Garrosh from in the war crime books.
Also in todays standards every country commits still war crimes.

Because he had no reason to surrender as he was being attacked unprovoked which is the point of this conversation. as Alliance didn't have justification to attack Rastakhan or threaten him.

As such Garros was responsible for war crimes yes but archeologies rules. War crimes can lead to something could be still its a war crime, but lets end this part because I'm sure we won't agree on this any point and the main point relared to this have being true

[rowaasr13]

I haven’t sent dinosaurs anywhere, don’t worry.

Sorry, but you did. There's invasion WQ for Alliance where you kill Zandalari Dino boss that is trampling Boralus.

[Kwento]

Sorry, but you did. There's invasion WQ for Alliance where you kill Zandalari Dino boss that is trampling Boralus.

Nope, I didn’t. I’m a human being who never saw a living dinosaur in my life...

[Feanoro]

I haven't done the quests that lead up to this yet, but blowing up the enemy fleet with stealth-planted explosives on the ships seems totally ripped off of The Last Colony by John Scalzi.

Blizz ripping things from better authors? Say it ain't so!

[Verdugo]

Blizz ripping things from better authors? Say it ain't so!

Blizzard really did pioneer the way something is ripped off and made far shittier than the source material.

[Sanguinerd]

I haven't done the quests that lead up to this yet, but blowing up the enemy fleet with stealth-planted explosives on the ships seems totally ripped off of The Last Colony by John Scalzi.

Because nobody could think of such a thing by themselves?

Even if they did take inspiration from a book, so what?

[Aucald]

I haven't done the quests that lead up to this yet, but blowing up the enemy fleet with stealth-planted explosives on the ships seems totally ripped off of The Last Colony by John Scalzi.

That's not really an uncommon theme or trope - stealth-planted explosives have been used in many works of fiction as well as quite a few events in real life warfare. I doubt it was ripped off of Scalzi anymore than Scalzi himself just used the trope (nothing wrong with that, either).