Absolutely hooked

[tru]

Season #957 fight Diablo in a wheelchair....

[deenman]

So someone stating something factual = fanboy?

D3 has problems, most D3 players hate that it is on life support. But D3 is more fun than alternatives for many players. So why are they not allowed to enjoy the game?
Also, this is not a Diablo Fan Forum. Diablofans.com is.

And if you ever bothered to ever play the game lately you will know there is plenty of players left. As many as before, properly not, but enough that servers sometimes have to put you into a queue. And enough that if you were to play public you would get games instantly on primetime.

But clearly, me writing to you is meaningless because you already hate everything that is about D3 and its players regardless if anyone is factual or not.

People who prefer diablo simply have not played anything else or dislike complexity in games like path of exile or grim dawn,i swear people,pls try grim dawn,its not as deep and complex as POE but it sure is way more than diablo,and the way character progression works in it is just a joy,it even has little quality of life things over diablo like you can still move when map is open (how this cant be done in diablo blows my mind),the camera is FULLY CONTROLABLE like in wow! you are not stuck in 2 modes like diablo,and even the combat has improvements,like if you keep mouse buton pressed and kill something,your character doesnt just stop attacking,its auto starts attacking the thing your curson is pointing at.no need to click spam every time you kill something

and the sets on grim dawn dont force a build on you,they compliment the build YOU want to make and play,and farming is even better with set bosses being farmable

[endersblade]

People who prefer diablo simply have not played anything else or dislike complexity in games like path of exile or grim dawn,i swear people,pls try grim dawn,its not as deep and complex as POE but it sure is way more than diablo,and the way character progression works in it is just a joy,it even has little quality of life things over diablo like you can still move when map is open (how this cant be done in diablo blows my mind),the camera is FULLY CONTROLABLE like in wow! you are not stuck in 2 modes like diablo,and even the combat has improvements,like if you keep mouse buton pressed and kill something,your character doesnt just stop attacking,its auto starts attacking the thing your curson is pointing at.no need to click spam every time you kill something

I've played Path of Exile since launch, played Grim Dawn all the way through to max level + cleared story + all sorts of mods. Van Helsing, Wolsen, Victor Vran...you name an ARPG, I've probably played it. Still prefer D3 for its simplicity. I don't have to THINK or stress about anything in games like this. If I die in D3, eh, res, try again, no big loss. PoE you die, you lose HOURS of experience. Grim Dawn was fun, just not a fan of the graphics, though it had one of the funnest pet classes.

[Coldkil]

Thats what im saying. They have potentially a lot of content but they just zip you thru most of it at a million miles per hour so you do everything in the entire game in just a few hours. Its effectively giving you God Mode and, as we know, players cry and whine for god mode and once they get it, they kill everything super fast and then say “this sucks. Im bored.” And they quit.

D3 is a disaster.

Ehhh, but the point it's that D3 is not a "disaster". Or better, it is if you look at its legacy and how the game should have been done looking at what the core playerbase is.

D3 is a good game in small doses. What you say is true - but it's not like the game shipped like this. The game was bad for a number of reasons at release, RoS (Josh) tried to fix whatever he could making the game 1000x better (though still with issues because of core decisions that cannot be changed) and then Activision just pulled the plug on it when it was at his best stats (RoS release and shortly after) because it wasn't meeting expectations.

What we see now is just a consequence of that. D3 is a game that doesn't leave a great impression overall because of design and marketing decisions that were catered to a completely different playerbase than core Diablo fans and that didn't play off (actually did only damage).

If you look at combat/playstyle, hell, it's awesome. It's literal Blizzard quality. The whole structure around it was poorly designed and you cannot fix what's flawed at the core. Also they couldn't just overhaul the whole game since development was just cut when it was most needed.

- - - Updated - - -

I've played Path of Exile since launch, played Grim Dawn all the way through to max level + cleared story + all sorts of mods. Van Helsing, Wolsen, Victor Vran...you name an ARPG, I've probably played it. Still prefer D3 for its simplicity. I don't have to THINK or stress about anything in games like this. If I die in D3, eh, res, try again, no big loss. PoE you die, you lose HOURS of experience. Grim Dawn was fun, just not a fan of the graphics, though it had one of the funnest pet classes.

D3 has the combat feeling that just hooks you and it's what other games are missing (while being still really good games and way better than D3 in different aspects).

[deenman]

I've played Path of Exile since launch, played Grim Dawn all the way through to max level + cleared story + all sorts of mods. Van Helsing, Wolsen, Victor Vran...you name an ARPG, I've probably played it. Still prefer D3 for its simplicity. I don't have to THINK or stress about anything in games like this. If I die in D3, eh, res, try again, no big loss. PoE you die, you lose HOURS of experience. Grim Dawn was fun, just not a fan of the graphics, though it had one of the funnest pet classes.

Personaly i love the gritty feel of grim dawn and the look,its dark and depressing,remind you more of diablo 2,d3 is more similar to torchlight 2,but yeah i understand why you preffer d3,i play new seasons sometimes if i just wanna take it easy,and yeah necro in grim dawn is pretty sweet,hope you try the new expansion coming out soon,its got a literal captain america shield class lol

[endersblade]

Ehhh, but the point it's that D3 is not a "disaster". Or better, it is if you look at its legacy and how the game should have been done looking at what the core playerbase is.

D3 is a good game in small doses. What you say is true - but it's not like the game shipped like this. The game was bad for a number of reasons at release, RoS (Josh) tried to fix whatever he could making the game 1000x better (though still with issues because of core decisions that cannot be changed) and then Activision just pulled the plug on it when it was at his best stats (RoS release and shortly after) because it wasn't meeting expectations.

By that logic, PoE should be classified as horrible. It was NOT good at launch. Nowhere near what it is today. I don't judge games based on how they STARTED, only how they are NOW. PoE is very, very streamlined compared to launch, but so is D3. What I like about D3 is you see the results of the momentum you build up as you play. If I was starting D3 now, without ANY knowledge of how things work, I don't think I would take it over PoE.

But the way D3 just rolls out, you get more and more powerful as you play, until you're just absolutely facerolling everything, you're king of the hill, god amongst men, is absolutely fantastic. In PoE, you get to a point where, realistically (I'm not going to argue about the millions of hours and currency necessary to min-max in PoE...fuck that nonsense) you have capped out, you're wearing gear that is upwards of THIRTY LEVELS below you because itemization and gear incentives in PoE are absolute fucking garbage, you still technically have 20+ levels to go, AND the maps you're running aren't giving you shit for experience so as soon as you die, you lose hours of work.

PoE is a much more involved game compared to D3, I will certainly not argue that point. But to reach essentially the same point in PoE that you do in D3 requires an immense amount of hard-to-farm currency, thousands of hours of farming experience, and more than just a little luck. PoE is built like a sub-based MMO, which I think is completely full-on retarded considering it's F2P. D3 plays more like a game I paid $60 for at launch, I enjoyed the trek to max level, I got the endgame gear, and I can now just juggernaut my way through maps killing things all over the place, watching legendaries drop everywhere, it's just overall a much more fulfilling experience. PoE is more akin to Stockholm syndrome. It beats you to absolute shit and in the end you can do nothing but praise it.

[Coldkil]

By that logic, PoE should be classified as horrible. It was NOT good at launch. Nowhere near what it is today. I don't judge games based on how they STARTED, only how they are NOW. PoE is very, very streamlined compared to launch, but so is D3. What I like about D3 is you see the results of the momentum you build up as you play. If I was starting D3 now, without ANY knowledge of how things work, I don't think I would take it over PoE.

We're talking the same. The whole point is that D3 is not a "crappy" game by a long shot; though lots of things just fall short given the kind of game D3 is or should be, and that depends on factors that are objectively different from the player experience - which are the class design, endgame structure and loot system (the interaction between these 3 actually).

You don't need to farm in D3 to be successful. It's extremely easy to do everything up to endgame; but the real issue is that once you're geared up, you're left with boring useless passive +1 to legendary stone bonuses; farming higher GRs doesn't have any sense whatsoever since the rewards don't change - everything you drop in normal rifts you drop in GR120. Paragon and games are just a shallow way to justify the fact you are going to push GR for nor reason other than push high GR.

PoE is way more punishing and "rough" in its systems, but gives the player a clear idea of what you want to do at endgame, and every challenge brings its own valuable rewards, something D3 has completely missing.

However, D3 is just an unfinished game. Released badly, had an overhaul that was bringing it in the right direction but then someone else who was not related to the game development decided that it was bad before even trying to make it better. The second D3 expansion got cancelled at RoS release, so even if RoS was good, management had already decided to cut all support on the game.

What we got during RoS was all the stuff prepared for X2 - and when that was done, everything just stopped. There's a reason why seasons are all the same and the only changes are number tweaking on set bonuses - because there's nothing else to do.

That's why i say that i got everything out of D3 and it won't last much: once you do everything the game has to offer, it doesn't raise much interest to do the same thing again with just different numbers.

[endersblade]

Yeah I can see your point. Once I get the end-game gear on all of my characters, one of each class, I won't have a real drive to continue playing (though I will, because mindlessly whirlwinding shit to death on my barb is so much damned fun lol), unlike PoE where you have an end goal and, truth be told, you never REALLY reach it...but the treadmill is complicated enough that it feels like you're constantly progressing.

I'm not saying I'm going to be playing D3 until the servers are shut down, but I came to D3 after a year or more of not playing it and hitting PoE HARDCORE, and I still have had no desire to go back. I could, and have, listed extensively all the issues I have with PoE, and it's just too long for me to forgive at the moment. I do love PoE and I do hope it continues to get better and better. It was just seriously stressing me out and that's not what I look for in a video game.

[prwraith]

I think the primal ancients for the multi shot essence build just don't freaking exist >.<

[Kokolums]

Ehhh, but the point it's that D3 is not a "disaster". Or better, it is if you look at its legacy and how the game should have been done looking at what the core playerbase is.

D3 is a good game in small doses. What you say is true - but it's not like the game shipped like this. The game was bad for a number of reasons at release, RoS (Josh) tried to fix whatever he could making the game 1000x better (though still with issues because of core decisions that cannot be changed) and then Activision just pulled the plug on it when it was at his best stats (RoS release and shortly after) because it wasn't meeting expectations.

What we see now is just a consequence of that. D3 is a game that doesn't leave a great impression overall because of design and marketing decisions that were catered to a completely different playerbase than core Diablo fans and that didn't play off (actually did only damage).

If you look at combat/playstyle, hell, it's awesome. It's literal Blizzard quality. The whole structure around it was poorly designed and you cannot fix what's flawed at the core. Also they couldn't just overhaul the whole game since development was just cut when it was most needed.

- - - Updated - - -

D3 has the combat feeling that just hooks you and it's what other games are missing (while being still really good games and way better than D3 in different aspects).

I agree that the combat is excellent. Its very responsive and smooth.

If I had to take what I'm given with D3 and design something interesting out of it without rebuilding it, I'd probably copy "hellforge rushing" from D2. You would assemble a team of players and clear all 5 acts and at the end, you get one of a set list of special rewards. With hellforge rushing, you played the entire game, and at the end of act 4, you got something very special. I think that felt good because it was varied content, you had to do different things (unlike mindless rifts) and there is a big shiny thing waiting for you. The downside to this is that the story, settings and characters are middling to uninteresting to terrible.

If I could design what I wanted, I'd just create WoW style raids from the vanilla-BC era, but the core of the game is built around more monsters with less hitpoints instead of single mobs with huge health pools. Dexterity and herding over blunt tanking. Guilds would be further organized into leagues. Guilds would compete with each other for progression among rival guilds in their league. There would be league-wide notifications on progression and achievements. Top guilds in the league at the end of an xpac win something big. You'd also need a modernized meeting place beyond battle.net 1.0, a communal town everyone can join and meet in each other in a 3d world. And then I'd add split-screen and/or picture-in-picture so that you can observe your guild or rival guilds or other players play Diablo while you play. I'd envision a scenario wher your guild is taking a crack at a boss encounter for progression of some kind, and then you could do a split screen and watch a rival guild try the same boss. And then I'd take an idea for Super Mario Kart and add a "ghost rider" feature where you can record a session of your rift run or leveling run or whatever, and then save it as a ghost that can be shared with others. And the most important part of sharing a ghost is you must meet them in game to share it (to help force social interaction).

[ohiostate124]

I think I’m hooked again. Got back in when I finally picked up a Switch a couple weeks ago. Really enjoying making some D2 inspired builds. Working on a thorns crusader right now which really reminds of a zealot from D2.

[Craaazyyy]

Why post a picture that has been outdated and irrelevant for so many years? I prefer D2 and think it's superior for several reasons but it does frustrate me a tad that people criticize D3 for mechanics/design choices that were heavily altered years ago. It gives the impression that those that prefer D2 are idiots. You should at least play the game (or hell, do a second of research) before making a fool of your self.

i mean many things actually were made worse with changes since vanilla d3.. items might as well not exist in d3 and it would make no difference

[endersblade]

I think I’m hooked again. Got back in when I finally picked up a Switch a couple weeks ago. Really enjoying making some D2 inspired builds. Working on a thorns crusader right now which really reminds of a zealot from D2.

My Crusader is following the Thorns build I linked earlier in this thread. I have almost all of the gear for it at this point, and I gotta say I'm not completely satisfied. Maybe I'm just still missing key pieces, I dunno, but I can't get beyond T8. High resistances, HP, max block chance, and I still die in seconds whenever I try jumping above T8.

I think the primal ancients for the multi shot essence build just don't freaking exist >.<

I got my first Primal last night, and it was just random trash :-( Just clearing a T13 normal rift, dropped from the Rift Guardian.

[Coldkil]

I agree that the combat is excellent. Its very responsive and smooth.

If I had to take what I'm given with D3 and design something interesting out of it without rebuilding it, I'd probably copy "hellforge rushing" from D2. You would assemble a team of players and clear all 5 acts and at the end, you get one of a set list of special rewards. With hellforge rushing, you played the entire game, and at the end of act 4, you got something very special. I think that felt good because it was varied content, you had to do different things (unlike mindless rifts) and there is a big shiny thing waiting for you. The downside to this is that the story, settings and characters are middling to uninteresting to terrible.

If I could design what I wanted, I'd just create WoW style raids from the vanilla-BC era, but the core of the game is built around more monsters with less hitpoints instead of single mobs with huge health pools. Dexterity and herding over blunt tanking. Guilds would be further organized into leagues. Guilds would compete with each other for progression among rival guilds in their league. There would be league-wide notifications on progression and achievements. Top guilds in the league at the end of an xpac win something big. You'd also need a modernized meeting place beyond battle.net 1.0, a communal town everyone can join and meet in each other in a 3d world. And then I'd add split-screen and/or picture-in-picture so that you can observe your guild or rival guilds or other players play Diablo while you play. I'd envision a scenario wher your guild is taking a crack at a boss encounter for progression of some kind, and then you could do a split screen and watch a rival guild try the same boss. And then I'd take an idea for Super Mario Kart and add a "ghost rider" feature where you can record a session of your rift run or leveling run or whatever, and then save it as a ghost that can be shared with others. And the most important part of sharing a ghost is you must meet them in game to share it (to help force social interaction).

I'm very curious about the new Torchlight Frontiers game. A "new era" arpg imho should have shared hub/persistent world where you see other people, but then everything relevant to progression/stuff should be istanced hence you see only yourself/your party in dungeons.

Less random loot - in the sense generally loot should be randomized but you want definite places to farm stuff. Example, dungeon A final boss drops the endgame helms, so you want to farm it until you get it (or get the best version with the right stats for it). I'd like endgame items to have a fixed special property so if you drop it it's somewhat useful but then you want it with the right stats.

Add on top of this the M+ mechanic from WoW (which is just an evolution of GRs) and you have endless endgame content since the higher you get the stronger your item can drop.

[ohiostate124]

My Crusader is following the Thorns build I linked earlier in this thread. I have almost all of the gear for it at this point, and I gotta say I'm not completely satisfied. Maybe I'm just still missing key pieces, I dunno, but I can't get beyond T8. High resistances, HP, max block chance, and I still die in seconds whenever I try jumping above T8.



I got my first Primal last night, and it was just random trash :-( Just clearing a T13 normal rift, dropped from the Rift Guardian.

Can you show your character? I just switched to T8 today and there’s been no struggle so far. Im pretty sure I could turn it higher no problem.

[endersblade]

Can you show your character? I just switched to T8 today and there’s been no struggle so far. Im pretty sure I could turn it higher no problem.

Here ya go.

Crusader linky thing

[ohiostate124]

Here ya go.

Crusader linky thing

Hmm idk. Looks fine to me. Maybe it’s because I’m on a tablet but I can’t see changes to the gears stats.

I’m following these priorities:
https://www.icy-veins.com/d3/invoker...paragon-points

I’d change the punish rune to celerity. Pretty sure you don’t need Crit with thorns.

[endersblade]

Hmm idk. Looks fine to me. Maybe it’s because I’m on a tablet but I can’t see changes to the gears stats.

I’m following these priorities:
https://www.icy-veins.com/d3/invoker...paragon-points

I’d change the punish rune to celerity. Pretty sure you don’t need Crit with thorns.

Yep following the same exact thing. Hmm not sure why it's Fury and not Celerity, I must've gotten it confused with something else.

[The Oblivion]

People who prefer diablo simply have not played anything else or dislike complexity in games like path of exile or grim dawn,i swear people,pls try grim dawn,its not as deep and complex as POE but it sure is way more than diablo,and the way character progression works in it is just a joy,it even has little quality of life things over diablo like you can still move when map is open (how this cant be done in diablo blows my mind),the camera is FULLY CONTROLABLE like in wow! you are not stuck in 2 modes like diablo,and even the combat has improvements,like if you keep mouse buton pressed and kill something,your character doesnt just stop attacking,its auto starts attacking the thing your curson is pointing at.no need to click spam every time you kill something

and the sets on grim dawn dont force a build on you,they compliment the build YOU want to make and play,and farming is even better with set bosses being farmable

thats just not even close to true, ive played POE to level 98 clearing all end game, ive played torchlight and grim dawn. Diablo is in my opinion, the best playing game out of all of them. POE has more content and builds, but that satisfying polish and gameplay of D3 has not been beaten by single ARPG in my opinion to date. POE is not a AAA title, and that is fine, but that does leave it lacking in polish and precision IMO. D3 is smooth and crisp as fuck to play.