Terrorist Attack in Netherlands

[Razzako]

apparently i have to wait until a mod approves my post ?

Can you stop spreading hate and shit on these forums? We get it, you're a racist.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

It is, actually. Christianism for example threw away those outdated dark ageish tenents and moved onwards with full acceptance of criticism and change long ago.
We have yet to see Islam follow suit.

Every religion had some terrible bs tenents going on hundreds of years ago... but Islam still believes in much of that stuff today.

Given the fact that Christians still exist with outdated views it’s pretty clear that just saying the Old Testament doesn’t count doesn’t change the people in the religion. People for every religion pick and choose what they want to take from there holy text Muslims are no different.

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Its a list of terror attacks. Do you honestly think that christians/jews/etc commit terror attacks that often?

It’s a long list but two I remember are a single farmer shot dead and a land mind going off. Sure I don’t have the details as there not listed in the post but if you can count a single farmer being shot as a terrorist attack or a land mind planted who knows when why can you not count a Christian or jew shooting a farmer as a terrorist attack? Hell even if you don’t want to count it as a torrist attack what makes a Jew shooting some one better a Muslim?

Without a similar list of violent crime across other religions you are cherry picking data to reinforce your view on one religion. Such a list doesn’t prove that Muslims are more violent then Christians or Jews it only shows that they are the only ones your paying attention to.

[Cizr]

Can you stop spreading hate and shit on these forums? We get it, you're a racist.

Hey,few questions :

1) listing terror attacks is "spreading hate"? If someone listed terror attacks done by christians would it be also spreading hate and racism ?

2) muslims are race?

3) who is this "we" ? Some collective hivemind that you are part of?

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It’s a long list but two I remember are a single farmer shot dead and a land mind going off. Sure I don’t have the details as there not listed in the post but if you can count a single farmer being shot as a terrorist attack or a land mind planted who knows when why can you not count a Christian or jew shooting a farmer as a terrorist attack? Hell even if you don’t want to count it as a torrist attack what makes a Jew shooting some one better a Muslim?

Without a similar list of violent crime across other religions you are cherry picking data to reinforce your view on one religion. Such a list doesn’t prove that Muslims are more violent then Christians or Jews it only shows that they are the only ones your paying attention to.

I think that when its done by terrorist organization with goal of spreading fear/their agenda its safe to count it as terror attack.

I dont think it matters if someone gets killed by jew or muslim. It is still murder. I mean you can try to make similiar list with Christian/Jew terror attacks and then compare it with this one. Then we would at least know whats truth.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I think that when its done by terrorist organization with goal of spreading fear/their agenda its safe to count it as terror attack.

I dont think it matters if someone gets killed by jew or muslim. It is still murder. I mean you can try to make similiar list with Christian/Jew terror attacks and then compare it with this one. Then we would at least know whats truth.

Again I don’t have the details but I don’t see how shooting a single farmer is really helping them spread their agenda or a random mine that could have been placed and set off years apart with no rhyme or reason.

I also really don’t care enough to make a list of violent Christian or Jewish crime but unlike ico-2 I’m not here claiming that they have a higher number of “murderous psychopaths than every other religion in the world.” Hell he didn’t even say terrorist that’s something you added.

The no data has been presented as leaving out a list of violent crime from all other religions within the same time span makes this useless to back up his claim.

[Malaky]

Let's not pretend any religion is doing great when it comes to outdated customs. Involuntary male circumcision is still standard practice in the USA, and you probably can't convince me that forced celibacy is having a positive impact when it comes to the sexual well being of priests.

Oh all old religions have outdated customs, that's why they're old religions in the first place. But Christianity doesn't seem opposed to abandoning archaic or punitive tenents like, say, stoning people and generally seems much more open to change than Islam.
I have yet to see a christian going around killing people in the name of Christ, for example.

[Flarelaine]

Its a list of terror attacks. Do you honestly think that christians/jews/etc commit terror attacks that often?

Consider the IRA, for one.

[Dextroden]

That's a lie. It's bigoted nonsense. It's no different than people claiming that blacks are "just more violent". Same hateful and small-minded, pathetic bullshit.

Wouldn't that also include things like calling white people the biggest terrorist threat? Hmm.

[Eldar45]

That's a lie. It's bigoted nonsense. It's no different than people claiming that blacks are "just more violent". Same hateful and small-minded, pathetic bullshit.

The problem here is that one is bigotry based on genetics, and the other one is bigotry based on personal choice. One chooses to become a Muslim. I can for certain say that being a part of the Westboro Baptist Church makes you a bigoted moron. It is also "bigotry" to dislike the Westboro idiots since bigotry is: "stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own" (Source) . I am stubbornly and completely intolerant of Westboroers.

I do not hate Muslims. I hate a lot of their beliefs, but I don't hate the people. Much the same way that I disagree with or hate the beliefs of the left, but I do not hate the people who believe them. I'm quite good friends with many of them. I count some Muslims as my friends. Not because of their beliefs but in spite of them.


We have a word for this kind of thing: Its called Tolerance: "the ability or willingness to tolerate something, in particular the existence of opinions or behavior that one does not necessarily agree with."

But lets be completely honest about something. Iraq and Afghanistan both have more terrorist attacks than the rest of the world combined. There are more terrorist attacks in the Middle-east than any other region on Earth; it doesn't even come close. Most of these attacks are carried out by Muslims as the people in this part of the world are Muslim by a vast majority. Based on this it is pretty clear that yes, Islam does have a bigger problem with murderous psychopaths than any other religion in the world.

In fact I'd say its racist to say that criticizing Islam is racism. It means you are assuming that all Arabs, Kurds, Persians, Turks, etc are Muslim. You assign them a religious belief because of their ethnicity.

[Forogil]

Just as a for-instance, go back 50 years, and check the distribution again;

It is not that simple. A significant part of the terrorism 50 years ago in the west were made by Palestinians - who often had a muslim background, but we viewed it as separatist terrorism; together with IRA and ETA.

(And terrorism outside the west was largely ignored.)

Muslim terrorism isn't that prevalent, globally.

That is flat out wrong, and the globally we have Islamic State (and other groups) in Iraq and Syria, Boko Haram in Nigeria, Al-Shabaab in Somalia, Talibans in Afghanistan, Al Qaeda in Islamic Maghreb, Abu Sayyaf in Philippines, and other similar groups around the middle-east and Africa.

In reality terrorism globally is primarily Islamic with some additions of separatists/nationalists and far-left groups - whereas "anti-abortion" terrorism is primarily an issue in the US. Obviously there is some overlap between these groups - and sometimes there are other motives as well, like money.

And obviously fighting terrorism with terrorism isn't a good idea.

Go back further, and it changes again.

If we go back almost a millennia we find the infamous sect of assassins, that managed to create terror through targeted and highly visible assassinations - and even gave assassins their name.

If it were the faith, then the Muslim world would be significantly more violent than elsewhere in every era, and that's flat-out not true.

That is a total non-sequitur, and the world is not that black-and-white.

This is why the vast majority of the victims of Muslim terror attacks? Are other Muslims.

Because they are not viewed as muslims by the attackers.

That's why e.g. shia muslims in Europe fear that the IS-fighters will attack them after the collapse of the caliphate, and there has already been such terrorism incidents. That makes little sense in a geopolitical context, but it makes sense if one side views the others as apostates.

Come off your high horse and listen to the victims.

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Consider the IRA, for one.

An important factor is the difference between terror attack and deadly terror actor.

IRA stands out since they make a lot of attacks, but few deadly ones.
(The first is likely in part caused by the British keep really good track of those attacks.)
One reason for the lack of deadliness is that they are reluctant to kill themselves and bystanders.

[Eldar45]

Just as a for-instance, go back 50 years, and check the distribution again; Muslim terrorism isn't that prevalent, globally. Go back further, and it changes again. If it were the faith, then the Muslim world would be significantly more violent than elsewhere in every era, and that's flat-out not true. The reality is that most of the issues plaguing the Muslim world today, and particularly terrorism, are far more about geopolitics in the Middle East, than religion. This is why the vast majority of the victims of Muslim terror attacks? Are other Muslims.

If you want actual data for the last 50 years of terror attacks, and some explanatory analysis, here you go; https://bsos.umd.edu/featured-conten...rorist-attacks

Notice that this study is for the US, not the world. Iraq and Afghanistan have the vast majority of terrorist attacks. They are also majority Muslim. The rest of the middle-east is usually higher than most places in the world for terrorist attacks. Again, a mostly Muslim population. There is correlation here.

Also, I can say for a fact that the teachings of religious leaders is what lead to the Crusades. Yet now you can hardly find Christian terrorists (Though they do exist).

I can also say that the teachings of religious leaders is what has lead to the extreme rise of violence in the Middle-East.

You could find a lot of Muslim militarism in the time of the crusades as well. From the battle of Tours in France to lots of attacks on other European powers, Islam wasn't exactly innocent in the middle ages either.



If the Muslim leaders of today behaved like Saladin then we wouldn't have a problem.

[Cizr]

Nevermind the main victims on that entire list are Muslims right?

Yeah they are. So what? That changes nothing.

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Consider the IRA, for one.

Sure you can compare IRA (are they even active still?) with other groups

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Again I don’t have the details but I don’t see how shooting a single farmer is really helping them spread their agenda or a random mine that could have been placed and set off years apart with no rhyme or reason.

I also really don’t care enough to make a list of violent Christian or Jewish crime but unlike ico-2 I’m not here claiming that they have a higher number of “murderous psychopaths than every other religion in the world.” Hell he didn’t even say terrorist that’s something you added.

The no data has been presented as leaving out a list of violent crime from all other religions within the same time span makes this useless to back up his claim.

It sents messageto others I guess. But you are right,mine thing didnt have to target farmers and it could have been "accidents".

Maybe data were not present because there are no jewish murdergroups riding around and killing people.

[Flarelaine]

Sure you can compare IRA (are they even active still?) with other groups.

Why not? They are a religion-based terrorist organization. They have not been very active since the Good Friday agreement, but that may change very soon and in any event, their present inactivity does not invalidate their previous actions. I mean, what's your cutoff for "active" anyway? Say Al Qaeda hasn't hijacked a plane in 18 years, does that mean 9/11 suddenly never happened?

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An important factor is the difference between terror attack and deadly terror actor.

IRA stands out since they make a lot of attacks, but few deadly ones.
(The first is likely in part caused by the British keep really good track of those attacks.)
One reason for the lack of deadliness is that they are reluctant to kill themselves and bystanders.

The Troubles took thousands of lives. The IRA may have been more discriminate in their choice of targets then suicide bombers, but targeted terror is still terror. They also created no-go areas decades before the term was picked up for Muslim neighbourhoods.

[Kumorii]

Nevermind the main victims on that entire list are Muslims right?

Are Muslims less valuable as victims? Terrorism is awful no matter who it targets.

[Pannonian]

The problem here is that one is bigotry based on genetics, and the other one is bigotry based on personal choice. One chooses to become a Muslim. I can for certain say that being a part of the Westboro Baptist Church makes you a bigoted moron. It is also "bigotry" to dislike the Westboro idiots since bigotry is: "stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own" (Source) . I am stubbornly and completely intolerant of Westboroers.

I do not hate Muslims. I hate a lot of their beliefs, but I don't hate the people. Much the same way that I disagree with or hate the beliefs of the left, but I do not hate the people who believe them. I'm quite good friends with many of them. I count some Muslims as my friends. Not because of their beliefs but in spite of them.


We have a word for this kind of thing: Its called Tolerance: "the ability or willingness to tolerate something, in particular the existence of opinions or behavior that one does not necessarily agree with."

But lets be completely honest about something. Iraq and Afghanistan both have more terrorist attacks than the rest of the world combined. There are more terrorist attacks in the Middle-east than any other region on Earth; it doesn't even come close. Most of these attacks are carried out by Muslims as the people in this part of the world are Muslim by a vast majority. Based on this it is pretty clear that yes, Islam does have a bigger problem with murderous psychopaths than any other religion in the world.

In fact I'd say its racist to say that criticizing Islam is racism. It means you are assuming that all Arabs, Kurds, Persians, Turks, etc are Muslim. You assign them a religious belief because of their ethnicity.

Or you could argue that terror attacks are commited by the people living in areas where central authority and trust in these authorities is massively shaken.

Like Ireland 30 years ago. I don't thin the IRA was so fanatic because of their catholicism, but because their normal lifes were in uproar.

Compare to Afghanistan and Iraq where the social order and security was completely destroyed by outside forces in a matter of days.


People living in extreme environments take extreme actions... shocking!

[Coolthulhu]

It would be "easy" to post a whole bunch of racist cartoons denigrating black people, too.

I'm not gonna do that, either, because it isn't about how easy it is, it's about whether such a post would help anything, or just act as a contributor to hatemongering. I'm not going to contribute to that, however easy it may be.

Except there's a difference between cartoons and a list of incidents; even if said incidents are without (much) context, though not entirely deprived of it, given the Islamist nature of the attacks. Let's be frank: there'd be nothing bad at all to come up with such a list for example's sake, but it's simply not nearly as easy as you claim it to be, so now you're using the rather ludicrous excuse that it'd constitute hatemongering (which it wouldn't) and citing stuff like cartoons which I never even thought of.
P.s. given the places where the incidents in that list happen, it's safe to assume most of the victims were Muslims, which is also what you claimed a couple of posts ago, and rightfully so. Yet for some reason that's hatemongering. Curious.
P.p.s. the list is about attacks carried out by people who are by definition extremists, so I fail to see how is that racist. Do you not condemn radical Islam? Do you not admit that it's the group, or rather the category since its dishomogeneous due to the different signatures and confessions, that's responsible for the most terrorist attacks? Ill give you the benefit of the doubt and assume your posts were meant as a defense for Muslims in general, and not for islamists (who, again, are those responsible for everything on that list by definition, so tell me again how that's racist, even seeing as how their main victims are Muslims).

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Only in America.

[Gref]

I don't know where you are in the world but literally every outlet in Australia is calling what happened in NZ a terrorist attack. Which is it, because it is politically and ideologically motivated and intended to cause political division

Ah yes, I do not mean anything bad about the press in NZ or Australia. It is just the title of this thread kinda triggered me. I can clearly see, if it is not brown, it is not terrorism. Then again, it should be the last thing to worry. People are dead. But I really applaud the leadership of New Zealand right now.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

It sents messageto others I guess. But you are right,mine thing didnt have to target farmers and it could have been "accidents".

Maybe data were not present because there are no jewish murdergroups riding around and killing people.

So you think Christians Jews ect have a 0% violent crime world wide? I’m gonna guess that’s not the case.

[ico-2]

Can you stop spreading hate and shit on these forums? We get it, you're a racist.

lol love you too !

[Vargur]

Eye witness on the official dutch state news website claims the gunman yelled allahu akbar and tried to shoot him while he was dragging away one of the victims. Is he lying?

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I read that he had an argument with a person he knew, attacked said person and the others that intervened got killed also.