Raider.IO exists because...

[RobertMugabe]

I love raider.io! Today my group was doing +10 keys to get an alt geared. We could of easily timed it with 4 of us but wanted to go faster with a 5th person, so we asked someone in the community for a DPS. A demon hunter wanted to join but he had no IO, so whatever lets go you have 400 item level. Turns out this guy has almost no experience in a dungeon. He came in as a vengeance to dps to "live longer" because healers didn't "heal" him. Without raider.io the group finder tool will be useless and everyone will just run with friends they know and trust.

Yeah like srsly I see people all the time that have clearly no experience in anything... they don't do m+, raids, arenas or anything and they don't know really a lot about the game overall and yet they have 400 ilvl.

[Cannibalus]

ilvl has never equalled skill. People have been running around in high lvl welfare PvP epics since before gearscore was even invented. What changed was timed runs where you couldn't replace people, making prescreening much more important than it previously was.

Nobody ever used ilvl as a basis for inviting to any remotely difficult content. You looked at logs, which have been available for over a decade. Logs even back then could tell you if someone knew what they were doing or if they got carried through raids for all their gear.

You're forgetting the days of Gearscore...

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And why exactly SHOULD dungeon finder do this?

A HUUUUUGE part of an MMO is being helpful to others below you. An MMO isn't about being HYPER selfish and purely committed to improving yourself only. People like that are CANCER. Your addition would make it easier to be selfish. Eff that.

So basicly what you're saying is that others should put time and effort so that you don't have to. Entitlement syndrome right there.

[whywhatwhowhenhow]

Because the game is full of the fucking shitest, thickest mother fuckers in the world.

WASTE OF FUCKING TIME!

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Because it wants to stop people doing Mythic+ dungeons I guess, doesn't have any other useful function I can see.

If anyone understands mathematics has a close look at the feedback loop on - they will realise that skill isn't the primary driver.

It keeps the shitters like you out!

[MiseryIndex]

Almost everyone that dislikes a simple tool that collects and displays experience is probably bad at the game. I can start a new character and get it to a middling score easily, but it's almost always the people complaining about an addon that does nothing more than display information that seem to be the causes of bad dungeon experiences.

[Gaidax]

It exists so I can do my single weekly +10 in peace without getting stuck with some derps that can't DPS/Tank/Heal to save their lives and pull unrelated shit around on top of that.

[lardaoc]

I don't get all the hate that Raider.IO is getting IMHO. It's the best way to know if the applicant is any good.

Of course it's not a perfect system, because people can get carried and get a good score... but it still helps. I used to fucking hate m+ as someone who pugs dungeons, because of both toxic and terrible players, but RIO made everything way better.

No, Raider.IO does not tell you anything about the skill level of someone, it just tells you if said person did run M+ or not, do you really think that a mythic raider who doesn't care about M+ and never ran them wouldn't be able to do them? Also it's a waste of time for everyone, even people who run M+ and want to play another character. I highly doubt that someone with 39873269786325928 rio score on main rogue will not be able to do a +10 on his/her twink <insert melee char here> and needs to grind score on the char first. But that's what happens, or otherwise you won't get a group.

It's a tool for lazy people who don't want to put in some time to check their team mates and rather have a program/site do it for them, even if it's using inadequate information and rules out people who are very well capable of doing the task, simply because it saves some time and effort for those people who build the group.

[Malkiah]

Almost everyone that dislikes a simple tool that collects and displays a very specific kind of experience is probably bad at that one very narrow aspect the game.

fixed that for you.

raider.io measures 3 things:
1. how good your regular dungeon partners are, if you have them
2. how lucky you get with pugs having competent people
3. how often you replay dungeons and get a modifier roll on 1 and 2 above

and this is fine, if the community at large understood what .io actually tells you about a player.
the problem is that people think io score = individual skill, and i'm sure that in some cases it does, but quite honestly my anecdotal experience is that inviting only people with a high .io score will result in fucktards in your group at the same overall rate as inviting only people with decent ilevel who you have verified gem and enchant every available slot.

[Girrag]

And why exactly SHOULD dungeon finder do this?

A HUUUUUGE part of an MMO is being helpful to others below you. An MMO isn't about being HYPER selfish and purely committed to improving yourself only. People like that are CANCER. Your addition would make it easier to be selfish. Eff that.

There's a big difference between helping somebody who wants to improve and boosting slackers. And currently things like raider.io is the best way to separate them. It's far from perfect, but it's better than ilvl/gearscore.

[RobertMugabe]

No, Raider.IO does not tell you anything about the skill level of someone, it just tells you if said person did run M+ or not,

"Skill level" is a phrase that doesn't mean anything, at least not in WoW. The rio score tells you someone's performance in m+ dungeons and it also easily shows you what dungeons they've done and at what performance, which is a good piece of info to know whether they have experience with this dungeon. There is obviously a way bigger chance that someone who has already done a dungeon will know what to do vs someone who never ran it.

do you really think that a mythic raider who doesn't care about M+ and never ran them wouldn't be able to do them?

I doubt there are many mythic raiders out there that don't do m+ AND yes, absolutely... just because you're raiding mythic, it doesn't mean that you're capable of running high M+ keys. You still have to know the strategies and what the mobs/bosses do. I wouldn't invite someone on a +10 who has cleared BoD on mythic, but hasn't done any m+ at all.

Also it's a waste of time for everyone, even people who run M+ and want to play another character. I highly doubt that someone with 39873269786325928 rio score on main rogue will not be able to do a +10 on his/her twink <insert melee char here> and needs to grind score on the char first. But that's what happens, or otherwise you won't get a group.

How is it a waste of time when it's literally making it faster and easier to invite people lol. Also people can see your main's score (if you turn that feature on).

AND it does absolutely make sense that every character has it's own rio score. Just because you're good with your rogue doesn't automatically mean that you'll be any good with your mage or even with a tank or healer.

It's a tool for lazy people who don't want to put in some time to check their team mates and rather have a program/site do it for them, even if it's using inadequate information and rules out people who are very well capable of doing the task, simply because it saves some time and effort for those people who build the group.

So now it's a tool for lazy people, but just before you said it's a waste of time?! And how is it a bad thing that there's a tool out there that makes things easier and more convenient? RIO is literally just summarising the most important stuff from your armory. What information from RIO is inadequate and wtf are you going to check on your applicants that RIO won't already provide you with?!

Honestly your entire comment sounds like bitching about something that you haven't really used yourself. Also your last paragraph simply doesn't make any sense...

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Almost everyone that dislikes a simple tool that collects and displays experience is probably bad at the game. I can start a new character and get it to a middling score easily, but it's almost always the people complaining about an addon that does nothing more than display information that seem to be the causes of bad dungeon experiences.

I was at first pretty skeptical about raider.io. But then I started using it mid S2 and M+ has become fun again, because most of the time things are going well.
It was super easy to catch up too. I had to do some lower keys first to get the score up, but it was also a good time to learn all the mechanics and strategies and of course just because I've got a high ilvl through rng doesn't mean I'm qualified for high m+ keys..

And yeah rio isn't just a tool that displays some random score, but it actually does provide you with some more useful info, such as what dungeons (and keys) did you do already, your main's score, raid performance and even how you did in S1. That's all great info for the party leader...

[froschhure]

Raider.io exists because blizzard is too dumb to create real content.

[schwarzkopf]

I don't get all the hate that Raider.IO is getting IMHO. It's the best way to know if the applicant is any good.

LOL - it offers NO indication of how good the player is at M+ runs... at all.
It only suggests that the player is good at getting a high Raider.IO score.

My skill level is around M8-10+ with iLvl 405.

Try to get into a pug, can't get anything more than a +4, and then only if they don't check my Raider.IO score.

[steristumpie]

Raider.IO exists because of lazy players who put in no effort to become better at the game but still feel like they are entitled to be a part of everything.

Change my mind!

This is a consumer product. Not real life. They are entitled to be part of something they paid for.

[Kralljin]

This is a consumer product. Not real life. They are entitled to be part of something they paid for.

They can, they have access to it.
Doesn't mean other costumers need to be forced to play with them, because they didn't pay to play with people that aren't up to the challenge.

Yeah, some people are overdoing it with Raider.Io, but at the end of day, there is no legitimate way to judge whether a person is up to the challenge presented by a certain difficulty level.

If you have issues with Raider.Io, make your own parties, invite people on any other metric you want and check the results.
There is no guarantee in the world for a player being good, but if someone has literally nothing to show for, you're basically gambling whether the person is decent or not.

Any person working in HR knows this, if a person has literally no resumee, yeah they could be good, but the likelihood of them being not increases by quite a marigin compared to someone who has one.
If i get 10+ applications for a Dps slot, i'll obviously pick the best one, because why wouldn't i?

[MiseryIndex]

fixed that for you.

raider.io measures 3 things:
1. how good your regular dungeon partners are, if you have them
2. how lucky you get with pugs having competent people
3. how often you replay dungeons and get a modifier roll on 1 and 2 above

and this is fine, if the community at large understood what .io actually tells you about a player.
the problem is that people think io score = individual skill, and i'm sure that in some cases it does, but quite honestly my anecdotal experience is that inviting only people with a high .io score will result in fucktards in your group at the same overall rate as inviting only people with decent ilevel who you have verified gem and enchant every available slot.

I appreciate the pedantic edit, but I'm pretty sure that anyone able to read would know that I'm speaking specifically of exactly one aspect, mythic + dungeons, not pet battles or transmog skills. We could argue back and forth based on anecdotal experiences, the point, however, stands. Raider.io merely collects and displays the experience a character has in running dungeons. If you were to argue that the numerical value assigned to this experience is irrelevant in lower keys, I would agree, completely. However, players with respectable scores are statistically less likely to be the cause of failure due to mechanics, and that's literally all there is to it.

[Kaver]

This is a consumer product. Not real life. They are entitled to be part of something they paid for.

I agree. But they didn’t pay for a spot in my group.

[RobertMugabe]

LOL - it offers NO indication of how good the player is at M+ runs... at all.
It only suggests that the player is good at getting a high Raider.IO score.

My skill level is around M8-10+ with iLvl 405.

As I said earlier, something like a "skill level" doesn't exist, at least not in WoW. And what other way is there for a party leader to know (or estimate) whether you have the "skill" to do this dungeon. A high ilvl doesn't mean anything, because you can get that by doing other content.

And how isn't the rio score a good indicator on how you are at M+, when this score takes only your M+ runs into consideration. I mean yes, just because you have high rio score doesn't have to mean that you're good. You could've very well "cheated" that and sure it isn't perfect. But it's still the best way so far for a party leader to decide who they should take. After all, someone with a very good rio score is more likely to be better at this than someone who has a very bad one.

Try to get into a pug, can't get anything more than a +4, and then only if they don't check my Raider.IO score.

Well then do a +4 first and get a better score. I've also started off by doing lower keys, even though my ilvl was way above what I could get from these runs. It was also a good opportunity for me to learn the strategies and mechanics.

Basically you can start doing a couple +4-+5 dungeons and on the next day you'll have a good enough score for +5-+7 content. Then you can go higher and higher. You can easily be ready for +10 within a week. I've started doing m+ with an ilvl of 392 and I got to that point after 1 week.

[Kaver]

No, Raider.IO does not tell you anything about the skill level of someone, it just tells you if said person did run M+ or not, do you really think that a mythic raider who doesn't care about M+ and never ran them wouldn't be able to do them? Also it's a waste of time for everyone, even people who run M+ and want to play another character. I highly doubt that someone with 39873269786325928 rio score on main rogue will not be able to do a +10 on his/her twink <insert melee char here> and needs to grind score on the char first. But that's what happens, or otherwise you won't get a group.

It's a tool for lazy people who don't want to put in some time to check their team mates and rather have a program/site do it for them, even if it's using inadequate information and rules out people who are very well capable of doing the task, simply because it saves some time and effort for those people who build the group.

People with high rio scores tend to be pretty skilled and not lazy. I take my chances with them. It’s about risk.

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LOL - it offers NO indication of how good the player is at M+ runs... at all.
It only suggests that the player is good at getting a high Raider.IO score.

My skill level is around M8-10+ with iLvl 405.

Try to get into a pug, can't get anything more than a +4, and then only if they don't check my Raider.IO score.

Why do you need to get into a pug? You can just make your own group.

[Nnyco]

no it really doesn't

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It exists to filter out the people who don't bother to put effort into improving their own play. Those are the people who are actually selfish build up your own keys if it's so easy.

If you dont put in effort to improve your score you also lack experience, since you prolly only ran dungeons a handful of times on a meaningful difficulty at most.

[Cannibalus]

LOL - it offers NO indication of how good the player is at M+ runs... at all.
It only suggests that the player is good at getting a high Raider.IO score.

My skill level is around M8-10+ with iLvl 405.

Try to get into a pug, can't get anything more than a +4, and then only if they don't check my Raider.IO score.

Do like i did. Back in season one i had almost no time to play. I didnt even unlock some of the dungeons. Then in 1 week i started spamming keys starting from +5/6. I ended up doing all dungeons on +10/11 max with a score of 1050. You can't expect people who did more than you to risk taking you. You didnt prove yourself.

[anon5123]

And why exactly SHOULD dungeon finder do this?

A HUUUUUGE part of an MMO is being helpful to others below you. An MMO isn't about being HYPER selfish and purely committed to improving yourself only. People like that are CANCER. Your addition would make it easier to be selfish. Eff that.

Yeah, wanting to only group with people of similar skill level to you, so that you don't have to wipe over and over, is CANCER and SELFISH!!!!!!!

....lol, are you listening to yourself?

Also, nuWoW isn't an MMO, it's a 3rd person shooter lobby game with some very light RPG elements.