"Mythic Crucible of Storms will be just as hard as Jaina"

[KaPe]

I don't really see the issue here. The most difficult bosses get nerfed before the 100th guild kills them anyway, regardless of gear upgrades. By the time you learn to execute the fight properly it will get changed not to require 10 priests.

You don't see the issue where less than 100 guilds (realistically, less than 20) are supposed to even attempt the boss? Really?

Something like this would be problematic already in a big raid with 8 other bosses - but at least, people would have something else to wipe on... and get geared along the way. However, when the very first boss is already a wall, there's your "issue".

And this is after they already nerfed Shadow Priests. It's a total balancing joke.

[burek]

You don't see the issue where less than 100 guilds (realistically, less than 20) are supposed to even attempt the boss? Really?

Something like this would be problematic already in a big raid with 8 other bosses - but at least, people would have something else to wipe on... and get geared along the way. However, when the very first boss is already a wall, there's your "issue".

And this is after they already nerfed Shadow Priests. It's a total balancing joke.

It's not an issue to release these bosses to be this hard, because most guilds are still in BoD. Their current state is intended for the top guilds to compete with each other, they won't remain like this for long. If they were released with the 500th guild in mind, they would be cleared before EU got up.

And PvE balance looks like a joke, that's true. Ranged and melee are both dominating their niches - MDI is a complete disaster as well. It's similar to how it's always been, just taken a bit to the extreme.

[Senel]

People defending Blizz tuning the raid for literally 15 Guilds or so only. LUL. First boss is mathematically impossible ATM unless you class stack to the max and even then it's TIGHT as fuck, with no possible gear upgrades to help it. Regular Mythic Guilds that downed Jaina should not even bother wasting gold there.

[styil]

As hard as Jaina when Method first killed it before the item level inflation or as hard as Jaina after the suite of nerfs with everyone gear capped?

[Dracodraco]

I don't really see the issue here. The most difficult bosses get nerfed before the 100th guild kills them anyway, regardless of gear upgrades. By the time you learn to execute the fight properly it will get changed not to require 10 priests.

Except we're already progressing the boss and learning to execute it. Are you proposing that this boss gets nerfed *this week*? Because it won't take us more than a full reset of progress to actually start seeing enrage attempts, it's *not that difficult*. It's the DPS check that's an issue. Are you saying that it's OK that the boss is not possible to do without a suite of alts for a guild that competes in the top 100, despite being able to do and progress the encounter? That seems odd to me.

It's not an issue to release these bosses to be this hard, because most guilds are still in BoD. Their current state is intended for the top guilds to compete with each other, they won't remain like this for long. If they were released with the 500th guild in mind, they would be cleared before EU got up.

And PvE balance looks like a joke, that's true. Ranged and melee are both dominating their niches - MDI is a complete disaster as well. It's similar to how it's always been, just taken a bit to the extreme.

You're going from "top guild" to "500th guild". There's a state in between. My guild has had Jaina down for six resets now; Long enough that BFD is firmly on a "farm" status and we can bring in everyone to share kills around, and also so far in that we have almost zero "growth" left from gear in BFD. We are at a stage where we will be spending all our raid hours on a boss that isn't technically in a state where we can kill it unless it gets tuned around not having +10 dot-casters in the raid, or untill we gear enough alts that can accomplish the above. Currently we have 7, normally we'd only have 4 (counting ele/sp/lock, as boomkin seems less potent), but do you really not see the issue that the boss is gated behind how many alts you can gear, rather than being able to bring a balanced comp?

[Logwyn]

Raids are hard in this game? I thought we debunked this as a myth!

[KaPe]

Raids are hard in this game?

Clearly not everyone is as amazing as you and raids with 19 clones.

[Huzzaa]

We decided to take time off from even attempting the first boss because we simply don't have the classes to do it.

We're not even dealing with dispels, which is issue number 2. But with the fact that we have a couple of people who literally cannot survive the 2 crush explosions which is issue #1. Therefore, nope...

Our "balanced" comp doesn't include a disc priest at the moment, with it, we'd be having issue #2 instead of issue #1.


Looking at it from a glance, for us, the fight is impossible, until we get half the ra... no, not even half, more than half of the raid to reroll.

/sigh. Blizzard?! Why?


Couple of thoughts. Change the dispel mechanic into an extra action button.
Nerf the dps requirement or, well nerf the classes? Idk, to bring them inline they need to eat the dirt with their performance and then they'd not compete on anything other than 2+ target fights as they'll be trash. Meaning that this fight is poorly thought through.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that DPS is issue #3, after the dispels. Yeah, aint happening for the time being...

[KaPe]

Nerf the dps requirement or, well nerf the classes?

They did. These are Shadow Priests after the nerfs and they are still absurdly ahead - which is no surprise since this encounter tailors to all of their strengths.

[burek]

Except we're already progressing the boss and learning to execute it. Are you proposing that this boss gets nerfed *this week*? Because it won't take us more than a full reset of progress to actually start seeing enrage attempts, it's *not that difficult*. It's the DPS check that's an issue.

Have you seen limit and method streams? They weren't wiping to enrage. They had like 100 wipes to failed interrupts, visage casts, pulls, random deaths and all sorts of other crap. I doubt you will get to perfect execution within a week to wipe to enrage because of bad comp.

You're going from "top guild" to "500th guild". There's a state in between.

So what if there is a state between? Is it the most important special state? No. If it was doable by you, it would be easy for the top who would have class stacked anyway, and the raid would be considered a joke. It will get nerfed for you, just like every other difficult boss.

[Dracodraco]

Have you seen limit and method streams? They weren't wiping to enrage. They had like 100 wipes to failed interrupts, visage casts, pulls, random deaths and all sorts of other crap. I doubt you will get to perfect execution within a week to wipe to enrage because of bad comp.

I watched them, yes. Limit wiped a ton of times due to enrage, with the bosses at around 3-5%. BDG hasn't been able to kill it yet with a more standard setup partly due to damage.
Also, if you don't think an ordinary raiding guild can rack up 100 pulls to "perfect execution" within a week you're delusional.

So what if there is a state between? Is it the most important special state? No. If it was doable by you, it would be easy for the top who would have class stacked anyway, and the raid would be considered a joke. It will get nerfed for you, just like every other difficult boss.

So you're saying that it's okay that houndreds of guilds are in a state where there is no definitive way to progress the boss except for "gear more alts", because there is no way to gain any additional power to handle the enrage timer due to already being fully geared? Seems like a great idea.

[KaPe]

So you're saying that it's okay that houndreds of guilds are in a state where there is no definitive way to progress the boss except for "gear more alts", because there is no way to gain any additional power to handle the enrage timer due to already being fully geared? Seems like a great idea.

That's exactly what they're saying. The very top guilds being challenged and forced to absurd stacking >>> showing middle finger to everyone else. Go afk for a week/however long it takes for Blizzard to nerf this atrocity, it's more important that people live vicariously through Method&co wiping for 100+ times.

E: And let's not forget about people like this claiming that "it's just like the good old days where people wiped for months, but now they're crying after 24 hours, filthy casual scum."

[Jastall]

That's exactly what they're saying. The very top guilds being challenged and forced to absurd stacking >>> showing middle finger to everyone else. Go afk for a week/however long it takes for Blizzard to nerf this atrocity, it's more important that people live vicariously through Method&co wiping for 100+ times.

E: And let's not forget about people like this claiming that "it's just like the good old days where people wiped for months, but now they're crying after 24 hours, filthy casual scum."

That one's my favorite, really. Anyone claiming such a thing has no idea of how different raiding was in vanilla (hint: no, you weren't going to be ready to pull again 2-3 minutes after a wipe).

[Woobels]

That one's my favorite, really. Anyone claiming such a thing has no idea of how different raiding was in vanilla (hint: no, you weren't going to be ready to pull again 2-3 minutes after a wipe).

Yeah people making that claim have no idea what they're talking about and I doubt they're even actively raiding.

[GlitchedTV]

Method is having a really hard time atm on uu'nat. Best try is 69%, Exorsus is on 73%. That boss looks way overtuned as it is right now.

[burek]

Also, if you don't think an ordinary raiding guild can rack up 100 pulls to "perfect execution" within a week you're delusional.

What the hell is an 'ordinary' guild? It took them ~20 hours of raiding to kill it, it will take you more. You don't raid that much in a week.

So you're saying that it's okay that houndreds of guilds are in a state where there is no definitive way to progress the boss except for "gear more alts", because there is no way to gain any additional power to handle the enrage timer due to already being fully geared? Seems like a great idea.

Additional power is already on the ptr. And nerfs are coming. You are acting like you don't know how the tuning worked for the past 10 years. The hardest bosses are tuned for the top and then nerfed for everyone else. Have you killed Jaina in the exact same state as she was when you reached her? No, she was nerfed in the mean time. And then she was nerfed some more. And probably will be nerfed again. One of the first changes was not to require stacking - in her case that was trolls.

[ydraw]

Nerfs to both Shadow Priests and boss health inc next week. Nothing surer.

[hellhamster]

Nerfs to both Shadow Priests and boss health inc next week. Nothing surer.

/laughs nervously in warlock

pls dont notice us blizzard, look there, a priest! /hides

[KaPe]

Nerfs to both Shadow Priests and boss health inc next week. Nothing surer.

Which will indirectly make Jaina harder, if not by much... so that's very likely.

[Zyky]

Couple of thoughts. Change the dispel mechanic into an extra action button.

As much as I'm sure people would love this, look at Mythic Mistress from Tomb of Sargeras for a history of this being unlikely. Every week the fight got progressively harder because of the Bufferfish and Blizzard never fixed the issue of the fight having different timings every week.

- - - Updated - - -

Nerfs to both Shadow Priests and boss health inc next week. Nothing surer.

I mean they should be buffing underperformers not nerfing Shadow. That would not only solve the issue of needing to class stack, but also make a health nerf less needed while bringing other options, at the very least, up to par.