Skeletons are objectively NOT part of models

[lialcw]

I don't understand where did this meme come from.

Skeletons control how the model is moving through a process called "skin". You can have different models with same skeletons or same skeletons with different models.

Stop your "old models are not old models" meme.

[XDurionX]

We really don't need multiple threads in this. Stop spamming.

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...7#post51126467

[lialcw]

We really don't need multiple threads in this. Stop spamming.

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...7#post51126467

Not spamming:

If you want to do a CONSTRUCTIVE thread about the model differences, feel free.

[Calfredd]

Not spamming:

Requires that you be constructive and not constantly attack every poster that disagrees with you.

[XDurionX]

That wasn't a request to open another thread.

[c313]

That wasn't a request to open another thread.

Just let this kid (least I hope hes a kid) run his course until he gets suspended and (hopefully) realizes what hes doing is dumb and a waist of time.

[Calfredd]

Just let this kid (least I hope hes a kid) run his course until he gets suspended and (hopefully) realizes what hes doing is dumb and a waist of time.

Pretty sure the OP is an alt of cqwrteur, in which case, he'll rage for 2 or 3 more threads and then get banned, perma'd or otherwise.

[Surfd]

I don't understand where did this meme come from.

Skeletons control how the model is moving through a process called "skin". You can have different models with same skeletons or same skeletons with different models.

For someone who spends so much time telling other people to learn shit about 3D animation, you really should take your own advice.

"Skinning" has fuck all to do with how a model moves.

A skeleton is attached to a model through a process called Rigging. The model is "rigged" to the Skeleton at fixed points, so that when, for example, the Skeleton bends it's elbow, the rigged model moves in correspondence.

"Skinning" is the process of attaching a visual appearance to the outer surface of a "model".

The entire process for a "human model" would be:
Human Skeleton rigged to Human Model with "Human Skin B" overlapped ontop of model.

Changing the "Skin" gives the model a different visual "look" but does not change any of it's physical characteristics (IE, slapping a Human Female Skin on a Human Male Model is not going to give the model physical boobs, it's just going to paint the graphic for boobs onto the flat male chest).

So yes, you CAN have models without skeletons, but they would be kind of pointless, because they would have no way of processing any form of animation (they would basically be static mannequins).

[Daevelian]

"Objectively"

You keep using that word, i don't think it means what you think it means.

[draynay]

Not spamming:

When can we expect the constructive thread?

[Kaleredar]

I don't understand where did this meme come from.

Skeletons control how the model is moving through a process called "skin". You can have different models with same skeletons or same skeletons with different models.

Stop your "old models are not old models" meme.

Skinning a new model to an old rig is not a instantaneous process. Nor is texturing that model with a new texture.

You don't really seem to know anything about modeling, texturing, rigging, or animation, OP.

[MoanaLisa]

You can't have a working model without a skeleton for rigging so I don't know how you reconcile this.

[Surfd]

You can't have a working model without a skeleton for rigging so I don't know how you reconcile this.

Technically you can. For example, one of the "boots" sitting on a shop table in a vendors room is still a "model", and it does not need to be rigged to any movement object to just sit there. So technically it is a Skeletonless Model that can be placed in game.

Creature models though, would almost guaranteed be required to be rigged to a skeleton, even if you had no intention of ever having them move. Like, a Taxidermy Bear object in a hunting lodge would still need to be rigged to a skeleton, because otherwise there would be no way to pose the thing the way you wanted it to look. Unless of course you actually WANT to have a bunch of rigid T-Frame models (or whatever base default pose they use for Critters) just standing motionless in your game.

[MoanaLisa]

Technically you can. For example, one of the "boots" sitting on a shop table in a vendors room is still a "model", and it does not need to be rigged to any movement object to just sit there. So technically it is a Skeletonless Model that can be placed in game.

Point taken, I should have been more specific. I meant, of course, models like character, NPC, mount, etc. models that have movement. Not static stuff.

[Seranthor]

I don't understand where did this meme come from.

Skeletons control how the model is moving through a process called "skin". You can have different models with same skeletons or same skeletons with different models.

Stop your "old models are not old models" meme.

It's pretty simple. When you play the game you agree to follow the rules. If you dont follow the rules you are subject to the sanctions you already agreed to when you log into the game. You chose to violate the rules, you suffer the consequences, which can and often does lead to being banned either temporarily or permanently.

[lialcw]

For someone who spends so much time telling other people to learn shit about 3D animation, you really should take your own advice.

"Skinning" has fuck all to do with how a model moves.

A skeleton is attached to a model through a process called Rigging. The model is "rigged" to the Skeleton at fixed points, so that when, for example, the Skeleton bends it's elbow, the rigged model moves in correspondence.

"Skinning" is the process of attaching a visual appearance to the outer surface of a "model".

The entire process for a "human model" would be:
Human Skeleton rigged to Human Model with "Human Skin B" overlapped ontop of model.

Changing the "Skin" gives the model a different visual "look" but does not change any of it's physical characteristics (IE, slapping a Human Female Skin on a Human Male Model is not going to give the model physical boobs, it's just going to paint the graphic for boobs onto the flat male chest).

Objectively false.
https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/electric...7F12_Lec06.pdf

Skinning Characters : Embed a skeleton into a detailed character mesh

Rigging: Building 3D models and their animation controls is a major component of every animation pipeline.
Building the controls is called “rigging”.

https://answers.unity.com/questions/...but-i-see.html

3d animation is complex - there is always confusion.

A 3d model is a collection of vertices. Typically called a mesh. One approach to animate it is called skeletal animation.

You create a 3d "skeleton" that consists of joints and bones. (The joints really just represent transformation and rotation matrices used to deform the vertices at render time) This skeleton is the rig. It can also contain ik controls to help pose it. The skeleton is posed in various keyframes to create animations. walking, running, jumping...

This is more efficient than keyframing the entire list of verts (like old quake md2) because the gpu can be used to perform the bone transformation and rotations. The verts are already stored on the gpu in a vbo - this is the t-pose. The gpu shader is the "skinned mesh renderer component".

In order for the skeleton to be used to deform the mesh, each bone must be associated with the vertices it affects in the mesh. This process is sometimes called "skinning a mesh".

In Mecanim, you can take an animation built for a different mesh/skeleton and retarget it to any mesh. This relies on the fact that both skeleton rigs are humanoid and similar. This is very useful and innovative.

Hope that helps clarify things for you.

The reason the vocabulary is so varied is because different tools have evolved that call it different things and use different approaches.

[Benomatic]

I really don't understand the hate for shared skeletons.

Don't the mogu and draenei share a skeleton rig? Worgen and saurok? kodos/thunderlizards/direhorns et al? Who care if models share skeletons?

[lialcw]

Point taken, I should have been more specific. I meant, of course, models like character, NPC, mount, etc. models that have movement. Not static stuff.

That does not mean model skinned with different skeletons becomes another model. Blizzard reskins their models for over 100 times. Old models are not old models meme are objectively false.

- - - Updated - - -

I really don't understand the hate for shared skeletons.

Don't the mogu and draenei share a skeleton rig? Worgen and saurok? kodos/thunderlizards/direhorns et al?

They don't. They are different files.

Who care if models share skeletons?

People love to claim different models skinned with the same or similar skeleton as the same models. That is how old models are not old models/allied races blah blah meme come from

[Yarathir]

For someone who spends so much time telling other people to learn shit about 3D animation, you really should take your own advice.

"Skinning" has fuck all to do with how a model moves.

A skeleton is attached to a model through a process called Rigging. The model is "rigged" to the Skeleton at fixed points, so that when, for example, the Skeleton bends it's elbow, the rigged model moves in correspondence.

"Skinning" is the process of attaching a visual appearance to the outer surface of a "model".

The entire process for a "human model" would be:
Human Skeleton rigged to Human Model with "Human Skin B" overlapped ontop of model.

Changing the "Skin" gives the model a different visual "look" but does not change any of it's physical characteristics (IE, slapping a Human Female Skin on a Human Male Model is not going to give the model physical boobs, it's just going to paint the graphic for boobs onto the flat male chest).

So yes, you CAN have models without skeletons, but they would be kind of pointless, because they would have no way of processing any form of animation (they would basically be static mannequins).

Absolutely not. Skinning does not refer to in-game skins. That's called texturing. Not even the process of making a mesh suitable for projecting a 2D texture map on to is called "skinning", instead it's called unwrapping.

Skinning refers to weighting the vertices to the appropriate bones in a way that gives a suitable or agreeable result.

[Amerissis]

You can have different models with same skeletons or same skeletons with different models.

That’s the same thing. Or is that supposed to be the unknown meme you are refering to?