Do you believe alternative medicine (acupuncture, aromatherapy, etc) works?

[Dhrizzle]

To repeat an old turn of phrase: Do you know what they call Alternative Medicine that works? Medicine.

They tend to call them "complimentary medicines" as a way of showing they can have positive effects but should only be used alongside mainstream medicines.

Of the two examples in the title acupuncture has been proven to aid pain relief in some circumstances (and is available on the NHS in the UK) while aromatherapy has no proven clinical benefits but can promote a healthy state of mind which can aid recovery.

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I do appreciate how topics like this bring out the Tim Minchin fans. To reiterate a solid quote of his:

"Do you know what they call alternative medicine that's been proven to work? Medicine."

Just a shame it isn't really accurate (see my comment on complimentary medicine above.) Singing comedians aren't really much better than hippies or spiritualist when it comes to medicinal advice.

[Chonar]

I believe in the placebo effect, so I suppose alternative medicine can actually work in that regard. But I'm very sceptical to everything that's pseudosciencey.

Basically this. But the moment people try and make silly amounts of money off it is when I start to feel bile.

At least with big pharma you know you're getting wallet raped legitimately. I prefer to be looked in the eye when getting fucked over.



wait thats a really bad metaphor hey where are you going

[Irian]

It's hard to say. I think some of it like acupuncture and herbalism have a lot more legitimacy than others, but for the most part I think it's safe to see them all as snake oil.

I voted no, but there's likely some value in at least some of these alternative practices. I just don't have enough research on the subject to say for sure.

[Chonar]

I just don't have enough research on the subject to say for sure.

Regardless of the topic, vocalizing this makes you a wiser person than most people.

[therealbowser]

If you treat it as a tool to utilize in addition to other tools, sure.

If you treat it as an alternative, i.e, you are doing it instead of proven treatments, then no.

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I voted no, but there's likely some value in at least some of these alternative practices. I just don't have enough research on the subject to say for sure.

This feels like the best answer in the thread, though.

[Gael1]

Yes, if they didn't work in some capacity they wouldn't stick around as long.

Sure crack down on whatever 'alternative' ideas someone might want to discuss, but the reason they get so big is because people refuse to look at the real issues they have and instead look for that magic thing that does everything they need.

That said, some of the alternative stuff mentioned in the OP seem like groundwork for other modern medicine studies.... so in theory they should work. Herbalism and Aromatherapy would translate into forms of dietary/supplement related fields and I'm only listing aromatherapy here since I know damn well I've had prescriptions that required inhalation or soaking as part of the proper way to administer the material.

That's a very naïve mindset my friend, humans have proved time and time again that their traditions can be absurd, or worst barbaric, and still stick for centuries. The Aztecs were convinced that sacrificing captives to their god was good for their people. In some regions people send their daughters to get their genitalia mutilated, because they actually believe it is good for them, and will keep them pure.

If a medicine has no effect, positive or negative, there is no reason for it not to stick around. As an example, for centuries in Europe, doctors would prescribe purging for about anything, and that included purging you of your "bad" blood. You can easily imagine how helpful bloodletting can be on feable patients. Not to mention with all the germs running around everywhere at the time. As a resut, countless patients died, and yet the practice continued, despite criticism from some (Read "Le Malade imaginaire" from Molière).

And don't get me started on the hundreds of religions that lasted for centuries or more, all contradicting each other. Humans are very capable of believing in nonsense, especially if it's not directly harmful (it often is indirectly anyway).

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It is a alternative to drugs or surgery. And yes, some alternatives to normal medical procedures/drugs can be successful in treating a ailment.

No, if the treatment is clinically tested it is no longer called alternative medicine. And if it works, it will be clinically tested and validated. The only alternative medicines that work are just cutting edge treatments that have yet to pass all tests. And very soon they will be proved to be actual medicine.

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I voted no, because in general I don't believe in alternate medicine. But some of the things you mentioned and stuff that used to be alternative is now used in conventional medicine. Things like acupuncture for instance.

Acupuncture isn't used in conventional medicine. Some doctors use it, but that's a very different thing. It has never been proved to have a positive effect, and that's perfectly logical when the entire premise is to stick needles in places where there are no nerves so it won't hurt. Sounds exactly like the thing an ancient chinese guy would do to prove he had special healing abilities. Now if you think there is something more to it than dodging nerves, I invite you to read on the actual theory behind it, including the circulation of chi, no less, an entirely invisible and all important energy coursing through meridians (that do not exist outside of naruto and Dragon Ball Z unfortunately).

[Kharadin]

Just a shame it isn't really accurate (see my comment on complimentary medicine above.) Singing comedians aren't really much better than hippies or spiritualist when it comes to medicinal advice.

Idk, I feel like if a singing comedian is telling me to trust in proven science then they're somewhat better than both hippies and spiritualists.

I'd be interested to see if you could demonstrate an example of complimentary medicine wherein it is both defined as alternative medicine and is also proven to have an affect stronger than that of a similarly administered placebo.

[HumbleDuck]

No

/10leeches

[Ghostpanther]

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No, if the treatment is clinicaly tested it is no longer called alternative medicine. And if it works, it will be clinicaly tested and validated. The only alternative medicines that work are just cutting edge treatments that have yet to pass all tests. And very soon they will be proved to be actual medicine.

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But if the patient is getting what they feel is real relief, then it does not matter if the method is clinically tested to be effective or not. It is for them. And if it is a method which has not been tested, then it would be alternative to the others which have been. How the medical field want's to categorize it is immaterial. To the patient getting the results they want.

[Surfd]

But if the patient is getting what they feel is real relief, then it does not matter if the method is clinically tested to be effective or not. It is for them. And if it is a method which has not been tested, then it would be alternative to the others which have been. How the medical field want's to categorize it is immaterial. To the patient getting the results they want.

That's a rather loose way to interpret things.

Patient is in pain. Patient wants relief from pain. So I shoot patient in the head. Patient is now free from pain. They got the results they wanted, but that damn sure isn't anything close to a proper "medical" treatment.

Just because the patient might get the "results" they want in no way co-relates to their treatment being considered "medicine".

[Dhrizzle]

Acupuncture isn't used in conventional medicine. Some doctors use it, but that's a very different thing. It has never been proved to have a positive effect, and that's perfectly logical when the entire premise is to stick needles in places where there are no nerves so it won't hurt. Sounds exactly like the thing an ancient chinese guy would do to prove he had special healing abilities. Now if you think there is something more to it than dodging nerves, I invite you to read on the actual theory behind it, including the circulation of chi, no less, an entirely invisible and all important energy coursing through meridians (that do not exist outside of naruto and Dragon Ball Z unfortunately).

There's enough evidence for the effectiveness of acupuncture that the NHS will provide treatment (if available) or at least recommend it. It seems that areas with few nerves are targeted so the patient feels little discomfort but it is enough to stimulate the production of endorphins and other natural chemicals.

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Idk, I feel like if a singing comedian is telling me to trust in proven science then they're somewhat better than both hippies and spiritualists.

Except the idea seems to be that you should only trust in proven science even if there are alternatives that may be beneficial.

I'd be interested to see if you could demonstrate an example of complimentary medicine wherein it is both defined as alternative medicine and is also proven to have an affect stronger than that of a similarly administered placebo.

I think we need to clear up some of the terms being used first, first up the difference between alternative and complimentary medicines is defined by the US National Center for Complementary and Integrative Health (as accepted by the NHS in the UK,)

When a non-mainstream practice is used together with conventional medicine, it's considered "complementary".
When a non-mainstream practice is used instead of conventional medicine, it's considered "alternative".

So whether a treatment is considered "alternative" or "complimentary" is more to do with the way it is used. If somone is only receiving aromatherapy then it would be considered "alternative," is they are receiving it alongside regular treatment it is complimentary. One of the usual defining factors of "non-mainstream," "alternative" or "complimentary" treatments is they have not been proven but have enough claims of positive results (and are considered otherwise harmless) that they can be recommended without any guarantees.

I guess though acupuncture is the closest thing to what you are asking. For some conditions it is the recommended procedure and it has other uses though it is not clear if it is more effective than other treatments.

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No

/10leeches

Leeches are actually a proven treatment and can help with the successful reattachment of severed limbs.

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That's a rather loose way to interpret things.

Patient is in pain. Patient wants relief from pain. So I shoot patient in the head. Patient is now free from pain. They got the results they wanted, but that damn sure isn't anything close to a proper "medical" treatment.

Just because the patient might get the "results" they want in no way co-relates to their treatment being considered "medicine".

I really shouldn't have to explain this, but the key factor for an alternative or complimentary treatment is for it to have the potential of beneficial effects without causing greater harm. Surgeons can treat leg pain by severing someones spinal cord but that is hardly an argument against surgery.

[Kharadin]

snip

If they cannot be proven to be beneficial then I'm afraid they're not beneficial. Unless you're arguing that there is some kind of treatment that is not yet proven to be beneficial?

[Dhrizzle]

If they cannot be proven to be beneficial then I'm afraid they're not beneficial. Unless you're arguing that there is some kind of treatment that is not yet proven to be beneficial?

Did you read my post? Aromatherapy and acupuncture are two forms of alternative treatments where there isn't strong enough scientific data to say they are "proven" to be effective but enough people report positive experiences for doctors to recommend them as complimentary therapies.

[Thereturn]

Only for the quacks making millions on selling the bullshit.

[ellieg]

I have friends that unironically believe in the healing powers of rocks. College educated ppl that think keeping a stone around will cure stuff. One of those was dating this girl that believed one of her stones was haunted and had a scary middle aged man's soul trapped in it.

[Kharadin]

Did you read my post? Aromatherapy and acupuncture are two forms of alternative treatments where there isn't strong enough scientific data to say they are "proven" to be effective but enough people report positive experiences for doctors to recommend them as complimentary therapies.

Sounds like the placebo effect. Whatever makes people feel better is fine by me.

[draynay]

Ugh no, its all in your head, but my head won't allow any of that nonsense in so it would never do me any good to try obvious bullshit fake medicine.

And as for the letting people trick themselves with it, not a fan, especially when they're grinding up rhino horns or trafficking pangolins. Alternative medicine is terrible.

[Velerios]

I think that there are 3 types of alternative medicine:

Category 1: things that actually work
Like nature medicine. There are some medicines with plant extracts that even scientifically are proven to work. But i don't really see them as an alternative medicine, because it simply works.

Category 2: things that might work
Acupuncture/Aromatherapy are falling there. Sometimes when something is in pain, i try to balance the pain somehow out and it works. Acupuncture might work and helps people, even through it might only be the placebo-effect. In most cases it's also not really harmful; at least as the needles are sterile and everything is clean and you don't inhale toxic substances. Especially the sense of smell is really important for us too and can be stimulated. And having something relaxing to smell is always nice.

Category 3: Total Bull****
Homeopathy falls in this category. Sugar Pearls and water are sold as real medicine, and given to children as replacement for real medicaments. This kind of things harms people because they believe in the fairy tail that water have a mind and that cleaning out bottles actually might work. And even big pharma companies jumped on the sugar pearls train; and it's disturbing.

[Shadowferal]

At one point in time I'm sure that some people wouldn't believe that simply eating right, and getting daily exercise is a cure for almost every damn problem.

[Ghostpanther]

That's a rather loose way to interpret things.

Patient is in pain. Patient wants relief from pain. So I shoot patient in the head. Patient is now free from pain. They got the results they wanted, but that damn sure isn't anything close to a proper "medical" treatment.

Just because the patient might get the "results" they want in no way co-relates to their treatment being considered "medicine".

Not in all cases of course. Such as your silly example. But if the patient uses what the medical professionals would call a non clinically tested medical alternative for a treatment of their aliment and years later it is still effective, I would say the patient made the right choice. Drugs and surgery, while I am not against or think is always bad, can have some serous negative side effects and can on occasion cause the death of a person.