[TV/Books] Game of Thrones ***SPOILER Discussion***

[Sezh]

well she looked a little angry before the barbeque ).

Or she looked frustrated, angry and sad at the same time. I haven't heard what reason D&D gave for her choice, and I wouldn't be surprised if they just say "Oh you know, Targaryens be crazy dude". But until they ruin it, I will stick with what I hope is the reason

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Also agree with your point #3 but imo that surprise attack with three perfect shots never should have happened to begin with.

Definately. They wanted to get rid of the dragon so they invented a way for it to die. Extremely lazy.

[Grimbold21]

I can only hope that what Ian McElhinney said has even a grain of truth to it: that a deal was struck for the books' release to be delayed until the show is finished

[Mteq]

good episode, but this is exactly with what i meant with the time moving so fast due to things being crammed in fewer episodes. Dany going mental should take a bit longer or should have rooted more, possibly by adding a traitor in earlier seasons that make tyrion etc. fear her more then anything else (or evne just a hint of). up to episode one/two, they still considered her fair and honest, without fear.

Dany warned Jon, everything she has done is to get a bigger army to take her claim. there simply never was a treat to her claim until Jon (who she would have for certain already killed if she didn't love him) came a long. every threat she has decimated without hesitation. this is not out of character, and Sansa (and albeit unknowing: Jon) triggered a fight or flight panic response by trying to push her out of the number one spot.

if she can not be a ruler that can be loved, she will rule through fear. the destruction if King's landing is more a message to Sansa and to an extend, to jon. 'don't fuck with me, this is what happens when you do'. In Jon's case however, they will push him towards not wanting her on the throne anymore. he will take the throne and rule from the North. Arya will either kill Dany or the dragon. another possibility is that Tyrion will kill Dany after which gray worm will kill tyrion.

guess we'll see.

all in all it does make sense, to some extend. there's just to much character development cramped into a to short a time span (on camera atleast) that leads to 'lolwut?'

the battle for the North could have easily be season 8, King's lading season 9 and season 10 Jon fighting Dany so easily have kept the same pacing as the earlier part of the series.

[lonely zergling]

When you realize they didnt show dothraki doing what they are known for (raping) because it isnt possible in sjw times to display foreigner characters doing evil things. Show goes out of their way to show northeners being rapey. I would have believed it if it was wildlings but hey we all know why they choose the white guy.

[Pannonian]

I even think it's a nice story, that Dany turns out to be more and more like her father, even though she tried to not become like him.

Kinda like: Power corrupts anyone.

That's in the spirit of the books: You can try to emulate some fairy tale behavior, but the gritty reality sets in sooner or later.

The only problem i have: It feels to forced, but maybe that's the problem with TV shows, as the need way more time. I also found Arya becoming a killer in the show a bit lackluster. In the books you have literally hundred of pages describing her training, which makes what she become more believeable.

The same goes for Dany. Showing her descent into madness/reality over a few seasons, and i think its a very powerful narrative, but in the show, in a matter of hours - feels wrong.

[Soimu]

The common people were innocent and didn't deserve to die in flames. Daenarys is a cunt that needs to die for what she did. Not many characters in the show can say that they personally killed tens of thousands of people.

no they did not but fear is a weapon, look at genghis khan it worked well for him :P

[Ihavewaffles]

if Winds of Winter & Dream of Spring books had been complete, hbo had those to draw inspiration from then people would be right to complain why last seasons were ass.

Btw fatso g.martin confirmed he isn't finished with Winds n that he hasn't even started on Dream..

I know it's edgy to complain on hbo writers but doesn't change that it's fucking stupid to do so.

[Bodakane]

It is 100% them. They're the head writers, and they chose to forgo more episodes and more money because, obviously, they're tired of the show. The acting is and was superb. The sets are and were superb. The production values are and were superb. The network is and was willing to put more into it. The WRITING is what sucks absolute balls, and the executive decisions -- which were theirs to make -- were abysmal. It is ENTIRELY on them; no excuses to be found. .

I love how people just know a person's motivations they haven't met all while knowing nothing about the actual process with which those people work in.

Why wasn't each GoT season 26 episodes?
Why didn't GRRM tell this story in 7 more books?
Why wasn't Endgame 3 movies?
Why is any successful book/TV series/movie not longer and just more?

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if Winds of Winter & Dream of Spring books had been complete, hbo had those to draw inspiration from then people would be right to complain why last seasons were ass.

Btw fatso g.martin confirmed he isn't finished with Winds n that he hasn't even started on Dream..

I know it's edgy to complain on hbo writers but doesn't change that it's fucking stupid to do so.

Not to mention, GRRM admitted he told D&D how the books would end.

[Sezh]

When you realize they didnt show dothraki doing what they are known for (raping) because it isnt possible in sjw times to display foreigner characters doing evil things. Show goes out of their way to show northeners being rapey. I would have believed it if it was wildlings but hey we all know why they choose the white guy.

Lmao, imagine being this eternally triggered that your mind actively seeks out and twists every little thing into something you can get upset about.

[Ihavewaffles]

Telling how books will end isn't the same as having huge body of work, books. I don't need to know the end to like every clever thing Tyrion said. Now he n Varys have personalities of two dead goats in the last seasons...

[uopayroll]

And it also doesn't help that writing is utter shit, with writers deliberately taking a dump all over the plotlines they've been establishing for years, only to give us 3 minutes long throw-away scenes, if at all. At least the action is good and the production quality is obviously through the roof, but these are the only reasons for me to watch it.

I started re-watching from the start about two weeks ago knowing how this last season is going, and nothing in season 8 feels like it is coming out of nowhere. Having not read the books in a long time (because a new one has not come out in a long time) I am keeping just the show within the show and not having the book seep in. Arya, Bronn, Tyrion, Jaime, Jon , Danny, Bran, Sansa, Varys, etc all pretty much stayed in character. A couple things may need a bit of suspension of belief, but nothing is out of left field.

Some people just cannot separate the show from the books, and some just jump on the bandwagon of this thread and repeat the same complaints.

[Jessicka]

There were some good parts, I particularly liked the Golden Company just going "fuck this" and running away.

Hound and Mountain fight was nice too, especially with Mountain just telling Cersei straight up "No", then smashing Qyburn into the wall.

Otherwise I think it was a bit too easy for Dany and Drogon, and Arya just running away wasn't Arya; nor really was her trying to save someone else - she's typically been more chaotic than that.

Also feel like Dany was rushed into 'mad queen'. Yes, she's had destructive impulses before - but they were tempered by her advisers, and also a bit of time to reflect; this was completely the opposite, it wasn't getting carried away, it was reflecting and then taking the decision to torch the place. Maybe if she did just get carried away that would have been more in-character. Still too easy though.

Euron was a let down, and even Jaime and Cersei got a massive let off getting killed quietly together rather than having to face any kind of justice.

Like I said earlier in the thread, I think we can just say GoT ended with the Long Night; it's sad to also see so many actors themselves were disappointed in the ending as well. Surely they had these concerns and expressed them, but the writers didn't take it on board? That's crazy.

[Sezh]

I started re-watching from the start about two weeks ago knowing how this last season is going, and nothing in season 8 feels like it is coming out of nowhere. Having not read the books in a long time (because a new one has not come out in a long time) I am keeping just the show within the show and not having the book seep in. Arya, Bronn, Tyrion, Jaime, Jon , Danny, Bran, Sansa, Varys, etc all pretty much stayed in character. A couple things may need a bit of suspension of belief, but nothing is out of left field.

Some people just cannot separate the show from the books, and some just jump on the bandwagon of this thread and repeat the same complaints.

Everyone are able to suspend their disbelief differently. Some can overlook almost anything, others almost nothing.

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Also feel like Dany was rushed into 'mad queen'. Yes, she's had destructive impulses before - but they were tempered by her advisers, and also a bit of time to reflect; this was completely the opposite, it wasn't getting carried away, it was reflecting and then taking the decision to torch the place. Maybe if she did just get carried away that would have been more in-character. Still too easy though.

I don't view Dany burning the city as "Dany going mad". For many seasons, we have been told that Dany has no love in Westeros. No one knows who she is, no one wants her to rule them. Jorah has been telling her this from the start. Now that Jon turned out to be the true heir, she has told him that if the world finds out, she will not get the throne - because she is not loved. Right before the battle, she gives Jon a chance to rule with her, together as King and Queen. But he don't want her now that he knows they're related. So she says to him "Fear it is, then". When King's Landing surrenders, she can't allow it because she won't be able to rule on mercy and love - it has to be fear. She has to murder thousands so millions fear her. Whether she does this for lust for power or with twisted Thanosy logic, I don't know. That's the real discussion to be had I think.

[Heavens Night]

There were some good parts, I particularly liked the Golden Company just going "fuck this" and running away.

Hound and Mountain fight was nice too, especially with Mountain just telling Cersei straight up "No", then smashing Qyburn into the wall.

Otherwise I think it was a bit too easy for Dany and Drogon, and Arya just running away wasn't Arya; nor really was her trying to save someone else - she's typically been more chaotic than that.

Also feel like Dany was rushed into 'mad queen'. Yes, she's had destructive impulses before - but they were tempered by her advisers, and also a bit of time to reflect; this was completely the opposite, it wasn't getting carried away, it was reflecting and then taking the decision to torch the place. Maybe if she did just get carried away that would have been more in-character. Still too easy though.

Euron was a let down, and even Jaime and Cersei got a massive let off getting killed quietly together rather than having to face any kind of justice.

Like I said earlier in the thread, I think we can just say GoT ended with the Long Night; it's sad to also see so many actors themselves were disappointed in the ending as well. Surely they had these concerns and expressed them, but the writers didn't take it on board? That's crazy.

The writing was on the wall when she executed Randyll and Dickon. Once a Targaryen, always a Targaryen.

She craves power, she craves the throne, she's ultimately destructive and murderous. A Targaryen. Why is this a surprise to anybody really.

Snow is the exact opposite of all of the above.

I agree about Jaime and Cersei though, that was lame as fuck.

[Jessicka]

The writing was on the wall when she executed Randyll and Dickon. Once a Targaryen, always a Targaryen.

She craves power, she craves the throne, she's ultimately destructive and murderous. A Targaryen. Why is this a surprise to anybody really.

Snow is the exact opposite of all of the above.

I agree about Jaime and Cersei though, that was lame as fuck.

Jon is a Targaryen.

[Bodakane]

I don't get how the Cersei and Jaime deaths aren't fitting enough.

They literally started all of this. And as a result they lost their children, stature, dignity, father all while watching the only thing they love besides each other, KL, burn to the ground.

They were literally crushed to death by the results of their actions.

[Heavens Night]

Jon is a Targaryen.

Indeed, hence my statement below about Snow. Apologies if I didn't convey my confusement. When I was talking about Dany I was referring to her in the "mad sense" but John as you say also a Targaryen, breaks this cycle and so IMO Dany doing what she has done, I think is more down to her own motivations of power and meglomania over the course of the show, which has been building subtly throughout the seasons, rather than anything to do with her being a Targaryen.

[Altrec]

I don't get how the Cersei and Jaime deaths aren't fitting enough.

They literally started all of this. And as a result they lost their children, stature, dignity, father all while watching the only thing they love besides each other, KL, burn to the ground.

They were literally crushed to death by the results of their actions.

It is because they were allowed to die together and in a mostly peaceful way. Given the things they have done(Cersei in particular) it wasn't a very satisfying end for them. Personally I wanted someone to stick a knife in them and twist while they looked their killer in the face knowing they got what they deserved. The audience sees them die but as far as any character that wanted revenge they were essentially killed off screen and perhaps it won't ever be know if they actually died. Hard to say if the bodies will ever be found under all that ruble in the tunnels. That isn't to say it isn't realistic in a way, but it doesn't feel particularly satisfying from a story telling perspective.

[uopayroll]

I don't get how the Cersei and Jaime deaths aren't fitting enough.

They literally started all of this. And as a result they lost their children, stature, dignity, father all while watching the only thing they love besides each other, KL, burn to the ground.

They were literally crushed to death by the results of their actions.

Many are thinking it should be the Valonqar, from the book that never made it into the show and how she had to be killed by one of her brothers.

[tikcol]

Every episode worse than the last. Lazy plot conveniences on top of the complete disregard for how many of these characters have been built. Can't wait for the end of this shitshow