One classic nay sayer admits they were wrong after playing beta

[MidnyteTV]

I am fine with this kinda play style, i will play classic alot, but for a man like him, once he hits raiding, the game changes, its no longer "cast firebolt, then forst bolt to slow, and use cone of cold, and..."

its literally just frostbolt, constantly.

You're fine with just hitting one button to raid? Ok.

Best of luck with that.

[Arrannin]

I must say that I found Blizzcon demo (thus not even beta) surprisingly interesting - it was great to play a game that is harder than current BFA. Im looking forward to Classic!

[arkanon]

and when he hits level 60 then starts doing nothing but frostbolt in raid, we shall see if he still enjoys it then.

nonono, hes played a few hours of low level questing - its perfectly acceptable to draw a conclusion from this level of play.

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I must say that I found Blizzcon demo (thus not even beta) surprisingly interesting - it was great to play a game that is harder than current BFA. Im looking forward to Classic!

Well, if you find questing in classic harder than questing in BfA, thats a fair comparison. Comparing overall difficulty (raids included), i think you will come to a diffirent conclusion.

[FelPlague]

You're fine with just hitting one button to raid? Ok.

Best of luck with that.

i will be, because raiding in vanilla will just be something for me to do while listening to a podcast, its a different experiance.
but yeah he seems to be enjoying the leveling, but top end is gunna be far different.

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I must say that I found Blizzcon demo (thus not even beta) surprisingly interesting - it was great to play a game that is harder than current BFA. Im looking forward to Classic!

i mean its not harder, just longer.

[arkanon]

You're fine with just hitting one button to raid? Ok.

Best of luck with that.

Look to be fair, thats all a good portion of the LFR community do, and that community is HUGE. So although many of us with gain no enjoyment from spamming 1-2 buttons endlessly all raid, for some, its perfectly ok - they focus on the social aspect, the lore, and just being part of a large scale raid. For many ppl, that aspect will NOT be the turn off. But for anyone whos focus is on M+ or Normal and above raiding, they might find it tedious and unrewarding. Thats quite subjective though, and only time will tell - and a few days into low end questing is not the time to be drawing such conclusions.

[KaPe]

nonono, hes played a few hours of low level questing - its perfectly acceptable to draw a conclusion from this level of play.

At that point, one doesn't even need to worry about drinking/eating for health and mana - which was nicely proven by the mistaken complaints about "regen being too high". Once it's bandage/food every other mob, it starts becoming more tedious.

Well, if you find questing in classic harder than questing in BfA, thats a fair comparison. Comparing overall difficulty (raids included), i think you will come to a diffirent conclusion.

It all comes down to the floor being higher but ceiling being lower. High end raiding/high level M+ are harder than anything in classic... but it's experienced by such a tiny minority that it doesn't really matter.

[Aeula]

It’s all about context.

In the context of modern WoW a lot of Classic’s features sound horrible. Slow leveling, no mount until 40 etc... In the modern game all that stuff would feel horrible because the game is built and designed differently. People have different end goals to classic, so most of this stuff would feel like an obstruction to the core gameplay loop.

Classic’s design and philosophy is radically different, so things that would sound utterly horrible in retail are actually enjoyable there. So naysayers thinking in the context of retail might well be surprised when they play Classic.

[WowClassic]

I'm being legit serious. I barely pay attention to WoW "personalities." In fact, I only watched Finalbosstv casually, and watched Sco and Sloot's streams from time to time. So no, I had no clue who he was until recently.

I do not know what i am missing out on. Because I did not play in Vanilla. But I certainly have reservations about playing it due to the amount of scathing vitriol I saw from the pro-classic crowd during the heyday of the debate. If they are that nasty online, who knows how bad they will be in-game.

I honestly hope it does well. Anything that gets people to WoW is a good thing. Because when I do have a chance ot play again, I want to take my son through dungeons and raid with him.

Cool, yeh didn't mean to sound patronising or anything. Just saying it's obvious that guy is trolling.

I didn't play Vanilla either, I started in Wrath. My feeling personally is that the game has just diverged too far from the original experience I enjoyed so much, and Classic is much closer to that even with all its flaws.

People can write an essay on the flaws, make jokes about the simplistic rotations and what not, but in doing so they only advertise the fact that they completely miss the point.

I know nothing about the drama that preceded WoW Classic, but I suspect most of the animosity came from people being told that they didn't understand what they really wanted. All the early signs are that Wow Classic will recapture the community/social aspect that has been to a large extent lost.

[Seranthor]

For years I have read people (who probably pretend to have played vanilla) on this forum saying vanilla was bad and people think it was great because of nostalgia. Now classic beta is open we can finally have a fair comparison and it's funny to see how the nay sayers admit they were wrong after playing beta.

More accurately would be to say 'A Classic Naysayer' or 'Some Classic Naysayers' because people's opinions (read that word again, if you dont understand the word, look it up) are subjective.

[arkanon]

At that point, one doesn't even need to worry about drinking/eating for health and mana - which was nicely proven by the mistaken complaints about "regen being too high". Once it's bandage/food every other mob, it starts becoming more tedious.
It all comes down to the floor being higher but ceiling being lower. High end raiding/high level M+ are harder than anything in classic... but it's experienced by such a tiny minority that it doesn't really matter.

This just isnt true, im sorry. You are just believing some randoms opinions. What percentage of people have never done a m+? what percentage of players have done normal mode bosses? heroic? do you know these numbers? or are you just saying "its a tiny minority" because thats not a fact, thats just something you heard once and decided to believe.

[Hitei]

Boost runs for real money were illegal in classic. They are not illegal anymore nowadays. Thanks to tokens.

And as i said, they are epidemic. Means, they are the standard nowadays. The gold tokens blizzard sells turned WoW into a marketplace for gameplay.

Boost runs for gold were not illegal in classic, and they aren't illegal now. The only thing that has changed is people buying gold for real money from rampant, cheating gold farmers in Vanilla, or people buying gold for game time from other players via Blizzard.

Oh, and you call helping people do content they can't normally do for money "helping"?

Yes.

What kind of understanding do you have for "helping others"?

help
1. : to give assistance or support to
other
1. : being the one or ones distinct from that or those first mentioned or implied

Do you call buying services "helping"?

When that service involves helping someone do something, yes.

[oland138]

1. It's one guy.
2. It's been, what, 3 days of beta? I don't think most "classic naysayers" were claiming it would instantly fail.
3. Three days after new expansion launches, forums are usually filled with "this is amazing", regardless of how it eventually turns out. Hype works both for retail and classic.
4. You could just as easily find people claiming the opposite, though I doubt making a video titled "I didn't change my mind" is nearly as exciting.

The vanilla leveling experience was getting people hooked to the game for 6 years. People need to stop pretending this it isn't the best MMO of all time and that it doesn't have a wide appeal.

It's the modern stuff that doesn't have any sustain.

[MidnyteTV]

Cool, yeh didn't mean to sound patronising or anything. Just saying it's obvious that guy is trolling.

I didn't play Vanilla either, I started in Wrath. My feeling personally is that the game has just diverged too far from the original experience I enjoyed so much, and Classic is much closer to that even with all its flaws.

People can write an essay on the flaws, make jokes about the simplistic rotations and what not, but in doing so they only advertise the fact that they completely miss the point.

I know nothing about the drama that preceded WoW Classic, but I suspect most of the animosity came from people being told that they didn't understand what they really wanted. All the early signs are that Wow Classic will recapture the community/social aspect that has been to a large extent lost.

I was Wrath baby as well and have made arguments that Wraths overall game systems were the best.

I would say thst BfA has certainly diverted WoW in ways even I cannot defend. But the game has changed as expected, but people fail to realize that they have changed as well. In the era of Fortnite and Pubg, WoW is no lknger a desirable game in that players want quick consumable content. Why grind to 60 when there are games that require less time commitment with similar gaming experiences?

Its probably a good thing you missed out on the drama. It was so nasty the WoW subreddit banned all mention of legacy.

From my perspective, the pro legacy crowd wanted classic and woildnt listen to anybody. They were a 5 year old begging for a cookie. They may have felt that people were gelling them they didnt really want it, but most anti legacy people didnt want money and time wasted on a nostalogia trip initiated by a bad expansion (WoD).

[HavokHeart]

Again, people were hyper about WoD during the first week and look how it turned out in the end. This is also how many MMORPG "reviews" look like, judging the whole product based on the first impression. Hell, you could start leveling a new class and everything seems so much better and more fun at first.

I'm pretty sure none of these people even hit the actual "hard" points in the leveling, where you had to travel a huge amount for piddly exp, unless you knew all the obscure areas. Especially if they didn't save enough money for a mount yet. It was quite a nuisance when compared to the earlier levels.

Also (since I'm not about to watch some random people on Youtube) don't they play with friends/in groups? That's quite a bit different from a random nobody play the game on their own and relying on pugs... if at all.

There's zero proof that Classic is a success or a failure yet - even ignoring the fact that it's merely a beta. And, to be cynical - Asmongold certainly made a ton of money in just few hours of streaming. Who knows if "naysayers" didn't see that and go "hmm... maybe hyping it up a bit more than I actually feel like is a good idea"?

Again, four days now. Huge hype. Too early for rational analysis.Same here... did it all 15 years ago. I'll probably play it a bit once it launches, depending on how many guildies will be interested - but I don't see it as a second coming of WoW.

Classic has been tried and tested- again and again. It is a good game. Fun and engaging. Comparing it to the trash heap WoD was is a sad stretch. Sure... the beta has been out for four days. Watching the streamers who got invited has been a blast and quite telling as many of them were cynics and skeptics.

Also it is quite literally the second coming of WoW.

[MidnyteTV]

The vanilla leveling experience was getting people hooked to the game for 6 years. People need to stop pretending this it isn't the best MMO of all time and that it doesn't have a wide appeal.

It's the modern stuff that doesn't have any sustain.

Those are huge assumptions.

[HavokHeart]

Those are huge assumptions.

What is the assumption? Seems pretty accurate. Classic provides a living breathing world that is rewarding and immersive.

[MidnyteTV]

What is the assumption? Seems pretty accurate. Classic provides a living breathing world that is rewarding and immersive.

https://youtu.be/Falm0H7VEiQ

This video clearly shows that raiding was a big part of Vanilla.

Thoughts?

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What is the assumption? Seems pretty accurate. Classic provides a living breathing world that is rewarding and immersive.

Every expansion was a living breathing world thats immersive.

[KaPe]

This just isnt true, im sorry. You are just believing some randoms opinions. What percentage of people have never done a m+? what percentage of players have done normal mode bosses? heroic? do you know these numbers? or are you just saying "its a tiny minority" because thats not a fact, thats just something you heard once and decided to believe.

You do realize that we track the number of raid boss kills, right? Same with keystone achievements. And instead of bolding one part, read few words back - not many people do high level keystones. Low level ones aren't particularily challenging.

Classic has been tried and tested- again and again. It is a good game. Fun and engaging. Comparing it to the trash heap WoD was is a sad stretch. Sure... the beta has been out for four days. Watching the streamers who got invited has been a blast and quite telling as many of them were cynics and skeptics.

Also it is quite literally the second coming of WoW.

You know very well what "second coming" means in this sense. It physically cannot be that until it's actually released - and probably couple months pass so we actually see how popular it is after the initial population surge. Current opinions mean little - all we know that it's functional and look almost exactly like the real thing. It might be a smashing success, but we cannot tell at this point.

Plus you don't know what kept people playing vanilla. Was it really the levelling? How many people gave up on the game before level 60? Seeing how the only time we heard about total number of accounts it was over 100 millions... quite a few people, it seems. I believe there were some actual statistic from Blizzard specifically about people quitting before 60, but it's ancient history by now.

[HavokHeart]

https://youtu.be/Falm0H7VEiQ

This video clearly shows that raiding was a big part of Vanilla.

Thoughts?

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Every expansion was a living breathing world thats immersive.

Raiding is obviously a huge part. I think its main appeal was rewards the required dedication and tenacity (not necessarily skill).

As far as immersion goes- pulling 20/15 mobs required to complete a quest and spamming a couple aoe skills may be immersive in your eyes but I don't feel the same way.

Having the best loot in the game provided as a quest reward may be fun to some. .. but not to me.

Coordinating roles, pulls, class skills etc still exists in the modern game but leads to a more exclusive environment (2 rogues, a monk a druid and a prot warrior).

In addition. Some items had true staying power. A trinket from a level 55 dungeon could be valuable through the entirety of endgame. There was a reason to go into previous tiers existed (scarcity of loot, legendary items, etc.).

[arkanon]

You do realize that we track the number of raid boss kills, right? Same with keystone achievements. And instead of bolding one part, read few words back - not many people do high level keystones. Low level ones aren't particularily challenging.

We who? Do you also track player numbers? because to know what percentage of a player base is doing what content, you would need to know the size of the player base. Do you know that information?

You are now suggesting that a +10 is easier than vanilla dungeons?
what about a +15?
What do you consider a high key and what is a low key?
where is the line drawn?
what percentage of players have completed a +10?

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In addition. Some items had true staying power. A trinket from a level 55 dungeon could be valuable through the entirety of endgame. There was a reason to go into previous tiers existed (scarcity of loot, legendary items, etc.).

This was still true for some items, usually trinkets, but they are the exception not the rule. I really do miss the linear gearing path - i didnt mind that i needed to gear my alt up a bit doing dungeons, and then earlier raid tiers before getting into the latest release - it was frustrating at times, sure, but overall i enjoyed having smaller goals and caps to work towards - it gave me a greater sense of progression. I completely accept that for some, that is just tedious and time consuming though, so pretty subjective. The moba / csgo type players who just want to get straight into "endgame" would surely disagree.