Mythic+ is terrible for the game

[czarek]

M+ idea is fine but loot rewarding system is crap. Braing back justice points or smth like that.

[Deaged]

Mythic+ is a great alternative for people that don't have time to raid or can't follow a strict schedule.
The only hard part about raiding is finding 20 skilled people that can/want be online at the same time on the same days every week, 80% of the raid content is laughably easy and if your guild can't clear full mythic with 2 raids/week by the time the next raid gets released, you are just horribly bad at the game.
So if you can manage to get these people together and invest the time, I don't mind it dropping gear 15 or more ilvls above M+, even if high keys are way harder and more unforgiving than most raid encounters.

The only problem with M+ is that it's full of elitists that think only fotm classes can time their +10 freehold key and it's really hard to climb when you don't have a lot of friends when playing a class that isn't highly wanted. People saying 'just do your own keys' only have a point once you can establish a decent baseline of r.io score and have your own 10+ keys every week.

Regarding the loot system, when you do a couple of M+ a week, at the end of the patch you'll be about 5 ilvls below a Mythic raider (who will be at their max ilvl WAY earlier). Even if you spam M+, the time you need to invest to even get the chance to be lucky enough to get fully decked out in titanforged gear and surpass a mythic raider's set is just ridiculous. If you see a guy without raid gear with higher ilvl than mythic raiders, he has spent A LOT more time playing the game than said raider, so is it not in some way justified then?

I mostly stop pushing keys at the point where super elaborate pulls/snapping/skips starts to become necessary to time the dungeon because the chance to pull that off with pugs is way too low. But once you get to the segment of 15-20 keys, most people are decently skilled but not flawless.

You have to meet people. I was stuck at 950io in s1 until I found a group that regularly plays together, I showed them I was at the least their skill level and voila. I play Hunter, far from meta in s1 and the first half of s2. The group we play with is far from a meta comp but we get along and finished s1 at 1800 and are sitting roughly at 2400 now in s2. Am I any better of a player than I was at 950io, no, but I went out and found people to play with. Could I go find a double rogue prot group and get 2800+? Sure but the point isn't to play with broken classes and people you don't like for a bigger number, it's to make friends, learn together, improve your strategies, and have fun on the game. If pugging m+ isn't fun, don't do it. If your goal is in fact to get the biggest number possible, compare yourself against those playing your class and spec, will save you stress, I totally agree with you on tryhard strats too, no one in my group cares about watching mdi, or our io or what comp we play. The number of times we carry some pug 1900io player and every 30 seconds they question the strat is nauseating.

[Wild]

M+ is awesome (however loot is shit sometimes and too RNG)
Raiding sux.

oh.. just another personal opinion

[ID811717]

To be frank, if you don't like M+ gameplay (for me "race with timer" type was never compelling i prefer tactical progress) and you love mythic raiding you are fucked. You must do m+ for gearing and if in your guild already have m+ groups you need to find pugies - that's makes it even worse experience for you.

If you are a mythic raider, then a weekly +10 run is a walk in the park for you, and good weekly groups will invite you just based on your character's mythic raid progress. The more hardcore you are as a raider and the more pressure you have to farm M+ for gear (mind you, for one week only), the more capable you are to easily find a group and even boost the other 4 people in your group if necessary.

I don't see a problem. Yes, it sucks if you have to do all of this in the first two weeks of each raid tier: PvP, M+, Warfronts, may be even IEs + WQs. But in all cases it was your choice to be so hardcore at raiding that you are forced into this content.

[cherb]

Well I don't think either scenario is correct, every +10 is lead by a mongoloid? Unlikely. Myself as a player is irrelevant because nobody can know that without playing with me or the group leader is somehow psychic. All they know is my rio score which is more than adequate (1.1k) for a measly +10

I think there must be some reason that hunters are automatically rejected in favour of other classes.

For 10-15 the classes really dont matter, but beyond that hunters get rejected because they just aren't good in m+. Every dungeon basically requires a rogue for skips, and two rogues can usually make things even easier. When you have two rogues, a monk amplifies them even more with their physical buff. If you are going to bring a ranged, there are zero reasons to bring a hunter over a boomkin or a frost mage. Warlock is in an even worse position than hunter for m+. It's a dungeon design and class balance issue. It sucks when you play the "bad" classes but to push higher keys, there isn't much players can do if blizzard isnt going to fix things.

[Onikaroshi]

If you are a mythic raider, then a weekly +10 run is a walk in the park for you, and good weekly groups will invite you just based on your character's mythic raid progress.

That's not the point though? He doesn't even mention it being hard (it's not), it's boring in BfA, specially with the new trash emphasis.

[Deaged]

For 10-15 the classes really dont matter, but beyond that hunters get rejected because they just aren't good in m+. Every dungeon basically requires a rogue for skips, and two rogues can usually make things even easier. When you have two rogues, a monk amplifies them even more with their physical buff. If you are going to bring a ranged, there are zero reasons to bring a hunter over a boomkin or a frost mage. Warlock is in an even worse position than hunter for m+. It's a dungeon design and class balance issue. It sucks when you play the "bad" classes but to push higher keys, there isn't much players can do if blizzard isnt going to fix things.

Hunter is easily the best ranged in current meta at highest keys. The reason many top groups play with a Hunter is because they smash mage and really really smash boomkin in sustained aoe which you need in the highest keys, esp as you work up in fortified. Right now the meta is to do a lot of physical damage. Frost and ele are viable depending on comp, I think boomkin is the most overrated ranged class by far.

[Chaelexi]

The glorified Diablo 3 greater rift system, now renamed to "Mythic+", is an un-MMO like feature that completely ruined ANY other way of gearing. It's literally a system taken from a non-MMORPG. It does not belong here.

The fact that you get the same ilvl from M+ as raiding is just awful. Why would anyone raid? Even Method has only defeated Jaina 2 times. Why farm her more? They get better gear from M+.

I was serious about raiding during this expansion for the first time since MoP. I was farming the heroics and then we started raiding as a Heroic raiding guild. It was fun. Then M+ unlocked. Guild leaders going "We expect you to farm M+ for gear and get +x ilvl by next raid"... I hate doing the same dungeons over and over again with scaled hp and dmg. Also raiding don't even give a single Tier set that looks cool... I quit raiding 3 weeks after M+ unlocked.

Raiding gear can't compete with M+. PvP gear can't compete with M+. Nothing can comete with M+.

I tried to cap on Conquest points each week to get that kind of gear but it's still miles worse than what M+10 gives.

How about making a dungeon system that can feel rewarding all expansion long without any scaling, while still giving incentive to raid? PS: Vanilla managed to do it, see dungeons set 1 and 2.

The game has gone from "raid or die" to "m+ or die", and I for one, rather die then.

Not sure what you are talking about Mythic raiding has high ilvl gear, and you can not get the highest ilvl weapons for M+. Yes there are some BIS trinkets from M+ but there has always been a BIS trinket from dungeons of some sort in the game. As for PVP, you can get Mythic raid gear from PVP but it takes more then just capping you have to get rank as well.

[Elkfingers]

I like Mythic +, but it's not an RPG-like feature at all. The reason I used to like MMORPGs was because there were things to do, but they took place within a world that I could explore. WoW may as well be a lobby shooter at this point. It has fun features, but I wouldn't log in because I wanted to play an RPG.

It's a different game now, and that does make me a bit sad.

[goriander]

If you are going to bring a ranged, there are zero reasons to bring a hunter over a boomkin or a frost mage.

Where'd you get this idea from? Hunter is one of the most represented ranged classes in high keys and they're really good.

Boomkins have shit damage and mages aren't that great at anything either. Hunter goes well with the emphasis on physical damage (battle shout, mystic touch) in this meta. You seem to be a bit out of touch anyways making the comparison to a boomie and mage, top 3 ranged specs for m+ are ele shaman, bm hunter and (arguably) shadow priest.

[ID811717]

That's not the point though? He doesn't even mention it being hard (it's not), it's boring in BfA, specially with the new trash emphasis.

I guess the "you are fucked" tone just confused me.

This is still an MMO game, so there are so many aspects of the game you have to do if you want to be hardcore, even if you don't enjoy any of them. PvP cap for gear, M+ spam for gear, IE spam for AP, farming gold for consumables and may be BoEs, Warfronts for raid-level gear rewards, WQs to min-max azerite residuum gains. I don't see why M+ holds a special place among these activities. You can farm M+ for 2 full evenings (or mornings, or whatever) on the first mythic raiding week and quickly reach the point of diminishing returns where you are fully decked in HC-level gear (with +5 ilvl warforges in half the slots), and there is no point to keep farming it for a reasonable person.

[Azerate]

Mythic+ is actually pretty horrible as far as gear drops. People who claim it showers you with raid level loot all the time and somehow invalidates raiding have probably only seen mythic+ on twitch when MDI is live.

Yes, I guess technically you can run 20 mythic+ dungeons a day and something decent will drop within those 20 runs, but that's huge time investment, and still the loot/time ratio is not that great. The ilvl you can get is equal to that of a heroic raid only. Sure you can get a lucky wf/tf but it's not like this happens all the time, it's actually pretty rare. Raids are way better for gearing, and more time efficient. Not to mention for the people who are actually clearing mythic, the base ilvl is higher than the max you get in m+. Outside of the one weekly m+10, doing mythic+ for gearing is just pure stupidity.

Mythic+ is fine as a system for people who enjoy beating and upgrading the keys. For everyone else it's basically a "do this one weekly thing to get high ilvl piece of loot".

I've personally run about 25-30 mythic 10+ this season, and at the moment, I only have 1 item on me from all those dungeons, and that's a 425 lucky titanforge. Everything else is from heroic BoD and professions. I think I have like 1-2 decent-ish pieces from the weekly chest and that's that.

[LDancer]

And I say, remove gear rewards or the possibility of titanforging from M+ and see how popular it is, and if those key runners still wanna push then so be it.

But why did we have to lose CM as a choice for those of us who like to invest heavily into alts and xmogs? If feels as if blizz have tried to placate the “content drought” babies with some smoke and mirrors to stop unsubbing after clearing Mythic raid in the first month and unsubbing till the next patch.

As I said before, bring back CM for those of us who don’t give a toss about doing more then 1 +10 per week or even at all, and like to level and gear alts to do the challenge of CM for mounts and mogs.

As it stands, when ever a new allied race is announced I tune out or turn off as there is NO reason to go through the process of levelling a new toon for a crappy generic armour that is totally rubbish. More allied races = less care for the game for some of us!!!

[Deaged]

Where'd you get this idea from? Hunter is one of the most represented ranged classes in high keys and they're really good.

Boomkins have shit damage and mages aren't that great at anything either. Hunter goes well with the emphasis on physical damage (battle shout, mystic touch) in this meta. You seem to be a bit out of touch anyways making the comparison to a boomie and mage, top 3 ranged specs for m+ are ele shaman, bm hunter and (arguably) shadow priest.

don't try to explain anything to people. hunter can do this without even running a meta comp. it's all about optimizing play.

[Alopex Major]

Yeah, I saw the writing on the wall back in Legion with M+. It's not something I enjoy in the slightest, but they made it so lucrative that it eclipses every other gearing method, probably because they can tout it as an e-sport. I don't begrudge people enjoying it, but when it feels necessary or required is when I realized WoW is not for me anymore.

I should say that I sometimes play Diablo, and I don't mind the rifts there. For one thing, they take like 4 minutes. I also don't need to wait around and find 4 other people to do them with, nor track a "score" on some third party site, nor do I need to wait a week to get my reward for it. But they absolutely do not belong in an MMORPG.

[Deaged]

In no way is m+ more lucrative than mythic raiding. 150+ runs between 10 and 20 for me this season and I have 4 pieces of gear that are 415 or better from m+ That's 75 hours of play, in other words, 12 full raid weeks assuming you raid 6 hours a week. I've been using a 405 weapon all season. 150 chances for gear, 90% of which are 400 ilvl, 9 bosses in BoD, if you clear 12 weeks on heroic and mythic that's 18 chances at gear per week or 216 chances at gear + 2 bonus rolls a week, 240 chances at gear.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

If mythic+ gets removed ill never play live wow again just wait for a mop or legion legacy server.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

Yeah, I saw the writing on the wall back in Legion with M+. It's not something I enjoy in the slightest, but they made it so lucrative that it eclipses every other gearing method, probably because they can tout it as an e-sport. I don't begrudge people enjoying it, but when it feels necessary or required is when I realized WoW is not for me anymore.

I should say that I sometimes play Diablo, and I don't mind the rifts there. For one thing, they take like 4 minutes. I also don't need to wait around and find 4 other people to do them with, nor track a "score" on some third party site, nor do I need to wait a week to get my reward for it. But they absolutely do not belong in an MMORPG.

Why don't they belong the timer only matters if you don't know the instance... You don't need to track a score but you do need information to vet people with. Bad players look solely at io but good players look at runs. I've been denied from groups because I did instance on easy weeks which makes perfect sense. We need to tie analytics to runs but that's just my opinion. You also get a reward at the end of the dungeon...

No clearing mythic raids is more lucrative every drop only needs to war-forge twice for it to be maxed. Versus a drop that needs to titan forge multiple times and has to roll a gem slot as well. Mythic+ is not time efficient at all.

[Spotnick]

Funny how so many people talk about it being timed is an issue, when you don't even have to time the key to get lot.

The timer is only there for extra loot.. I don't see why you can't take your damned time and CC everything if that's what you prefer.

[Relapses]

Funny how so many people talk about it being timed is an issue, when you don't even have to time the key to get lot.

The timer is only there for extra loot.. I don't see why you can't take your damned time and CC everything if that's what you prefer.

...if not for the timer, there's little to no reason to ever do a key higher than +10. R.IO score and bragging rights are more than enough motivation for some players.