The Major things each race is good at

[VladlTutushkin]

In terms of applying the standards within your own culture but not upon others, well enough, but the end goal of this whole exercise is to apply a same standard as the unifying characteristic of the whole of the Horde and for that to work, there has to be some history of it binding them before - and there isn't, and that concept has to be defined, which empathically isn't since everyone has different standards, even within the races themselves.

I also have no issue with Saurfang sending assassins, since like most of his plan, it was just solid tactics and he was targeting military, but then Malf was also a military target, one that was stated to be singlehandedly putting thousands at risk and had almost failed their invasion by himself, despite all the preparation the Horde had put in. I do think that his personal quandary was done fairly well in A Good War and promptly never again, but this is more about his personality than some overarching code of honor that can be pieced together.

To not turn this into a Baine topic I'll leave at this. This was an ongoing war wherein his people, who were not the aggressors, were targeted, with the meme camp being only one of the targets, others including the gates to Mulgore itself and all of it carried out chiefly by Theramore forces. The reason Mulgore's gates didn't get punted down was the camp of those he exiled and the orcish troops that he whined about. A leader who exiled his own race for defending themselves during an ongoing war would find himself decorating a noose within a week, especially if he followed it up by tipping off the woman who enabled all these attacks in the first place. This is not an ethos that anyone in real life who isn't into self-flagellation believes in or that is remotely laudable.

Damn some people just have such standards... Fuck me am i weird or are they weird? Maybe. So back to Saurfang. He allowed Sylvanas to kill Malf. Thats first. She wanted to play mind games and be all cheeky with him, also btw she started "trolling" him with mentions of homor and great victory straight after he did some things that he would call "dishonorable" but he was about to let that slide past his radar since magnitude was simply too small in comparison to the "greater good" of the Horde. Things like - witnessing that assains went ALSO after civilians, witnessing whole slaughter of night elfs in the Ashenvale and in the end backstabbing(throwing) Malf. But he just said "okay kill him quickly and be done with it", and what he got for that? Mockery and "do it yourself or gtfo". And he was STILL about to do so , so for the love of Titans and Voild Lords stop throwing shit at him.
...
And about Baine - twist it all you like but he did what he had to to stop tauren from losing more people in their PERSONAL quest for revenge after revenge was served. They were free to go and join any other Horde regiment and serve against Alliance. Stopping your forces from overcommitement on a front where it would be unwise is not a bad deicision, especially if it is not an organised unit but a nuch of overly zealous guerrilas.

[Super Dickmann]

Damn some people just have such standards... Fuck me am i weird or are they weird? Maybe. So back to Saurfang. He allowed Sylvanas to kill Malf. Thats first. She wanted to play mind games and be all cheeky with him, also btw she started "trolling" him with mentions of homor and great victory straight after he did some things that he would call "dishonorable" but he was about to let that slide past his radar since magnitude was simply too small in comparison to the "greater good" of the Horde. Things like - witnessing that assains went ALSO after civilians, witnessing whole slaughter of night elfs in the Ashenvale and in the end backstabbing(throwing) Malf. But he just said "okay kill him quickly and be done with it", and what he got for that? Mockery and "do it yourself or gtfo". And he was STILL about to do so , so for the love of Titans and Voild Lords stop throwing shit at him.

Saurfang didn't give a fuck about any of the above nor did he see the assassins go after civilians. He was gleeful about the war all the way until he flung an axe into Malf's back. Sylvanas is also a moron for not just killing Malf, but her internal monologue shows her to be genuine, in the sense that she misread Saurfang and figured he'd go ahead and kill Malfurion and would consider the trophy worthwhile. Saurfang however was not going to kill Malf. He did nothing for several minutes and spared him by inaction, by the time Tyrande showed up to actually stop him. As can be demonstrated by how he's later described to be smug and glad that Malf came out of it alive and that he made the right decision.

And about Baine - twist it all you like but he did what he had to to stop tauren from losing more people in their PERSONAL quest for revenge after revenge was served. They were free to go and join any other Horde regiment and serve against Alliance. Stopping your forces from overcommitement on a front where it would be unwise is not a bad deicision, especially if it is not an organised unit but a nuch of overly zealous guerrilas.

None of this happens. This wasn't an isolated incident, it was an invasion of the Barrens by the Alliance forces from Theramore. Taurajo was just one of their targets and Hawthorne was a moderate, Twinbraid just wanted to kill them all and let god sort them out and he was the one in charge at the end of the day. He was also the same guy who exterminated the Stonespire tribe of tauren, something Baine also did fuck all about. After Taurajo, the Alliance also attack the great gate and it's the people at Vendetta Point who defend their home and ensure the gate doesn't fall. There's no overcommitment to be had because exiling them didn't change that the war effort was ongoing and the tauren were the ones defending themselves. This is all in the S. Barrens questlines on both sides.

[TheImperios]

Random thought. Now that we know that orcs are Titan creations descended from ogres, it makes sense that they learned to be mages in Cata and then became so good at it for no reason in a short period of time. They are naturally good at arcane magic, but never had the chance to learn it until recently for cultural reasons.

[Kyphael]

Humans - everything.

Everything else - being inferior to humans at everything.

In a story written by human beings? Get out of here! So you're telling me the human characters aren't meant to be the protagonists and the remaining races aren't meant to be supporting characters and/or antagonists, and this is only the case due to lack of racial diversity in the writing room!? Someone call Orlando Bloom and tell him not to forget his prosthetic elf ears. He needs to REPRESENT. Lor'themar Theron is obviously supposed to be the protagonist of Warcraft!

[VladlTutushkin]

Saurfang didn't give a fuck about any of the above nor did he see the assassins go after civilians. He was gleeful about the war all the way until he flung an axe into Malf's back. Sylvanas is also a moron for not just killing Malf, but her internal monologue shows her to be genuine, in the sense that she misread Saurfang and figured he'd go ahead and kill Malfurion and would consider the trophy worthwhile. Saurfang however was not going to kill Malf. He did nothing for several minutes and spared him by inaction, by the time Tyrande showed up to actually stop him. As can be demonstrated by how he's later described to be smug and glad that Malf came out of it alive and that he made the right decision.


None of this happens. This wasn't an isolated incident, it was an invasion of the Barrens by the Alliance forces from Theramore. Taurajo was just one of their targets and Hawthorne was a moderate, Twinbraid just wanted to kill them all and let god sort them out and he was the one in charge at the end of the day. He was also the same guy who exterminated the Stonespire tribe of tauren, something Baine also did fuck all about. After Taurajo, the Alliance also attack the great gate and it's the people at Vendetta Point who defend their home and ensure the gate doesn't fall. There's no overcommitment to be had because exiling them didn't change that the war effort was ongoing and the tauren were the ones defending themselves. This is all in the S. Barrens questlines on both sides.

Saurfang is more glad that he didnt had to make a decision, which is while questionable in itself and can be considered "weak" inst the worst thing in the world. Plus it is REALLY, REALLY hard to make anyone less un-likeable then Sylvanas. I would rather betray my country and leader then follow a maniac who can burn a surrednered city full of civilians and commit what is a genocide. This is simply too repugnant and abhorrent. Such things - they span past racial and political.

[Super Dickmann]

Saurfang is more glad that he didnt had to make a decision, which is while questionable in itself and can be considered "weak" inst the worst thing in the world. Plus it is REALLY, REALLY hard to make anyone less un-likeable then Sylvanas. I would rather betray my country and leader then follow a maniac who can burn a surrednered city full of civilians and commit what is a genocide. This is simply too repugnant and abhorrent. Such things - they span past racial and political.

Saurfang didn't know the tree was going to get torched yet at the time, it's only later that he says that Sylvanas was right, which also disqualifies him. As for him being more unlikable, that's mostly personal preference so not much to say. I can't really consider Sylvanas a character in this one, she barely appears and is mostly just a mustache twirling plot-device who exists to make everyone else look good. She's a cartoon bad guy with no motive you're meant to root against, so if she's unlikable that's par for the course. The actual heroes on the other hand we're meant to like when they're really just awful to a man, especially Horde-side.

[schwarzkopf]

Thank to Tauren assist - Gnomes get flying at the start of the expansion

[VladlTutushkin]

Saurfang didn't know the tree was going to get torched yet at the time, it's only later that he says that Sylvanas was right, which also disqualifies him. As for him being more unlikable, that's mostly personal preference so not much to say. I can't really consider Sylvanas a character in this one, she barely appears and is mostly just a mustache twirling plot-device who exists to make everyone else look good. She's a cartoon bad guy with no motive you're meant to root against, so if she's unlikable that's par for the course. The actual heroes on the other hand we're meant to like when they're really just awful to a man, especially Horde-side.

Excuse me but i rather have Zekhan and Thrall and maybe Saurfang and LtTheron then Keeshan, Jaina, Jaina, Jaina, Aniaj , Jaina and then Anduin.

[Super Dickmann]

Excuse me but i rather have Zekhan and Thrall and maybe Saurfang and LtTheron then Keeshan, Jaina, Jaina, Jaina, Aniaj , Jaina and then Anduin.

The Alliance characters suffer in that except for Jaina and Anduin they're all incidental to the story. Sadfang's mystical journey to restore honor is the real focus and it's wht the whole story that's not about Jaina revolves around.

[Friendlyimmolation]

In a story written by human beings? Get out of here! So you're telling me the human characters aren't meant to be the protagonists and the remaining races aren't meant to be supporting characters and/or antagonists, and this is only the case due to lack of racial diversity in the writing room!? Someone call Orlando Bloom and tell him not to forget his prosthetic elf ears. He needs to REPRESENT. Lor'themar Theron is obviously supposed to be the protagonist of Warcraft!

If you think all fantasy is like that you either haven’t read much, or you haven’t read any good fantasy.

Hell your argument only makes a lick of sense if humans were the only playable race, the entire point is that players are sick of bending over backwards for humans if they are Alliance. It has nothing to do with us being humans in real life and everything with blizzard writers being too creatively bankrupt to do anything other than write about how great humans are because it’s easy.

[Toppy]

If you think all fantasy is like that you either haven’t read much, or you haven’t read any good fantasy.

Hell your argument only makes a lick of sense if humans were the only playable race, the entire point is that players are sick of bending over backwards for humans if they are Alliance. It has nothing to do with us being humans in real life and everything with blizzard writers being too creatively bankrupt to do anything other than write about how great humans are because it’s easy.

Don't bother, he's just being #woke

[VladlTutushkin]

Don't bother, he's just being #woke

I heard that a lot but what actually does "woke" means?

[Kyphael]

If you think all fantasy is like that you either haven’t read much, or you haven’t read any good fantasy.

Hell your argument only makes a lick of sense if humans were the only playable race, the entire point is that players are sick of bending over backwards for humans if they are Alliance. It has nothing to do with us being humans in real life and everything with blizzard writers being too creatively bankrupt to do anything other than write about how great humans are because it’s easy.

Well in Burning Crusade, Velen was the hero that purified the blood elves after overseeing Kil'jaeden be vanquished. Cataclysm was all Thrall and dragon friends. Warlords of Draenor, Yrel, Durotan, and Grom were the heroes after Archimonde was killed. Khadgar played a supporting role at best. Then in Legion it was all Illidan and Velen with Turalyon playing second fiddle. That's a lot of orcs and draenei in a game supposedly all about humans. Why is no one complaining about orc and draenei bias?

The only humam hero of a whole expansion was Tirion Fordring, and Mists really was a mixed bag with no definite hero. I guess you could give Varian credit for leading Siege of Orgrimmar since it was his decision to spare the Horde, but he was hardly everywhere. BfA is the first expansion Anduin is the insufferable "can do no wrong" hero, let's see if he's the one to put the final nail in N'zoth's coffin because it's looking an awful lot like it'll be Sylvanas.

[Fiacla]

Do the night elves excel at fel though? Or are you referring to demon hunters?

[mickybrighteyes]

Like I said, a select few can yes. Humanity as an entire race though - this isn't the case. Take a human farmer vs an orc farmer - who's gonna win?

at farming? the human cause they didn't settle in a fucking desert because their leader said so.

[Syegfryed]

i would sy that orcs make great outlaw/combat rogues like the shattered hand clan and make great Death Knights too, well necromancy in general, Deathbringer saurfang was the most powerful DK, Teron was also an orc soul, and well ner'zhul

Trolls are also good at melee and ranged fighting, axe/spear throws, arrows, and of course druidism

[Daevelian]

Sigh... somehow i knew this thread wouldn't make it one page without a human potential memester vomiting everywhere.

Lo and behold, the very first post is exactly that.

Jokes aside, i'm pretty sure blood elves are the kings of hypocrisy, night elves are great punching bags, orcs have mastered the victim complex, etc.

[VladlTutushkin]

i would sy that orcs make great outlaw/combat rogues like the shattered hand clan and make great Death Knights too, well necromancy in general, Deathbringer saurfang was the most powerful DK, Teron was also an orc soul, and well ner'zhul

Trolls are also good at melee and ranged fighting, axe/spear throws, arrows, and of course druidism

Shamanism you mean, orcs cant into druidism.

- - - Updated - - -

Sigh... somehow i knew this thread wouldn't make it one page without a human potential memester vomiting everywhere.

Lo and behold, the very first post is exactly that.

Jokes aside, i'm pretty sure blood elves are the kings of hypocrisy, night elves are great punching bags, orcs have mastered the victim complex, etc.

Forsaken are Kings of Shifting Blame and two-think, also they are the best mallgoths in game. With blood elfs being close seconds.

[Syegfryed]

Shamanism you mean, orcs cant into druidism.

the second paragraph was about trolls, but orcs could be druids too, would be ok, but not great.

[mickybrighteyes]

Forsaken are Kings of Shifting Blame and two-think, also they are the best mallgoths in game. With blood elfs being close seconds.

Humans still beat them. Every time humans hsift blame... a new faction is born....

Example: see Forsaken.