New High in U.S. Say Immigration Most Important Problem

[Wyrt]

Immigration isn't a serious problem. It's just pure fearmongering to get people riled up over something minor. Turning molehills into mountains and all that.

I'm not really in favor of open borders, but I'd like to see a return of the old system where migrant workers were able to come up to the US to work during harvest season and then return to Mexico when they're done. A lot of why they chose to stay in the US now is because if they go back they might not be able to come in for the next harvest. Preferably with some kind of border background check so we know who is here and what for.

[DKjaigen]

Immigration is an issue for me due to concentration camps.

You do realise that these `concentration` camps are necessary to properly care and screen these people . Make no mistake people will die as moving thousands of miles on foot is not good for your health.

[Edge-]

The far left (in the US context) has adopted the following positions on immigration:

- Abolishing ICE
- Ending immigrant detention.
- Ending deportations for illegal entry (IE: no one can be deported for simply being in the country illegally, not just DACA recipients, everyone).
- Path to citizenship for all undocumented migrants.

AOC, Elizabeth Warren, Bill de Blasio, to name a few off the top of my head, have all advocated those positions.

How is eliminating one border enforcement agency entirely, making the other one essentially useless since it can't detain anyone for illegal entry, neither punishing nor deporting people for illegal entry, and eventually naturalizing all undocumented migrants... Not functionally an open border? Please explain.

AOC is a freshman Congresswoman with little power.
de Blasio is a mayor with zero control or impact on border policy.

As for Warren -

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...=.01bdf8eb9da5

Not in favor of abolishing ICE wholesale, but rather restructuring it and/or redistributing duties.
She does support not penalizing illegal immigrants for crossing alone, but that's a part of her views on the need for comprehensive immigration reform. She still supports deporting those engaged in other criminal activities though.
She supports immigration detention, but with limits. She doesn't support longterm detention, the detention of families/pregnant women, and wants stronger oversight of government and private facilities to make sure they're not abusing people as we repeatedly see today.
She also supports more funding for border security, which seems to contradict the "open borders" nonsense.

ICE isn't a border enforcement agency, that's the CBP that handles borders. ICE handles dealing with those already within US borders illegally.

This isn't a good example of the views of even the more progressive Democrats in the field.

You do realise that these `concentration` camps are necessary to properly care and screen these people . Make no mistake people will die as moving thousands of miles on foot is not good for your health.

Except that they're not being cared for or even screened properly there, as we repeatedly see despite the efforts of those running the concentration camps to keep lawmakers and media out as much as they can.

[I Push Buttons]

AOC is a freshman Congresswoman with little power.
de Blasio is a mayor with zero control or impact on border policy.

As for Warren -

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...=.01bdf8eb9da5

Not in favor of abolishing ICE wholesale, but rather restructuring it and/or redistributing duties.
She does support not penalizing illegal immigrants for crossing alone, but that's a part of her views on the need for comprehensive immigration reform. She still supports deporting those engaged in other criminal activities though.
She supports immigration detention, but with limits. She doesn't support longterm detention, the detention of families/pregnant women, and wants stronger oversight of government and private facilities to make sure they're not abusing people as we repeatedly see today.
She also supports more funding for border security, which seems to contradict the "open borders" nonsense.

You are arguing semantics. "They support deporting criminals who represent a tiny portion of undocumented migrants, so its not an open border!" Letting 99% of people who illegally enter the country remain here and deporting the 1% of them that are/become criminals is still functionally an open border.

[Edge-]

You are arguing semantics.

Yes, "semantics" matter when it comes to policy positions.

"They support deporting criminals who represent a tiny portion of undocumented migrants, so its not an open border!" Letting 99% of people who illegally enter the country remain here and deporting the 1% of them that are/become criminals is still functionally an open border.

Not when there's ongoing support for additional border security and a push for proper comprehensive immigration reform. Which is why she holds this position.

Context matters.

[I Push Buttons]

Not when there's ongoing support for additional border security and a push for proper comprehensive immigration reform. Which is why she holds this position.

Context matters.

Which consists of what exactly?

What additional border security? She is opposed to a physical barrier. Having more agents at the border won't prevent people from illegally entering the country, it will merely make it easier to find them/apprehend them just after they cross it... And she is opposed to their removal after they are already here... So her positions seem rather contradictory, no?

Everywhere I look I see her policy bullet points, but no elaboration.

"Replace ICE with something better that reflects our values!" What does that even fucking mean?

"Comprehensive immigration reform!" Such as????

Because all I see are tidbits that make it look like she is advocating for a functionally open border that anyone and everyone can pass illegally (or legally since her comprehensive reform probably consists of 'anyone can come here as long as they aren't a criminal!'), and if they pass the border (illegally), they will be temporarily detained for a background check and then released, especially if they have kids with them/are pregnant, and then they get a path to citizenship, unless they break the law, in which case they will be deported by the new supposedly morally upright ICE replacement agency.

[Edge-]

Which consists of what exactly?

What additional border security? She is opposed to a physical barrier. Having more agents at the border won't prevent people from illegally entering the country, it will merely make it easier to find them/apprehend them just after they cross it... And she is opposed to their removal after they are already here... So her positions seem rather contradictory, no?

Everywhere I look I see her policy bullet points, but no elaboration.

"Replace ICE with something better that reflects our values!" What does that even fucking mean?

"Comprehensive immigration reform!" Such as????

Because all I see are tidbits that make it look like she is advocating for a functionally open border that anyone and everyone can pass illegally (or legally since her comprehensive reform probably consists of 'anyone can come here as long as they aren't a criminal!'), and if they pass the border (illegally), they will be temporarily detained for a background check and then released, especially if they have kids with them/are pregnant, and then they get a path to citizenship, unless they break the law, in which case they will be deported by the new supposedly morally upright ICE replacement agency.

Why don't you look up her actual positions on the issues, then? You're the one claiming that she believes X or Y without bothering to check first.

[I Push Buttons]

Why don't you look up her actual positions on the issues, then? You're the one claiming that she believes X or Y without bothering to check first.

I just said I did.

Everything, everywhere is literally just talking points. The only thing I can find of her elaborating on at all is, when asked how she will reduce the influx of immigration, she responded that we need to invest money in Central America to make those places better so people won't feel the need to come to the US. That's it, every other policy position I can find no elaboration. The ICE replacement? Nothing, she just says at rallies all the time it needs to be replaced with something that reflects our values. Her comprehensive immigration reform? She just says we need to focus on criminals over and over, which presumably means everyone who isn't a criminal gets a free pass to violate our border and seek a path to citizenship.

[BigToast]

I can't think of anybody who was for open borders since Ronald Reagan.

"Rather than talking about putting up a fence, why don’t we work out some recognition of our mutual problems, make it possible for them to come here legally with a work permit, and then, while they’re working and earning here, they pay taxes here. And when they want to go back they can go back, and cross. And open the border both ways, by understanding their problems. This is the only safety valve they have right now, with that unemployment, that probably keeps the lid from blowing off…And I think we could have a fine relationship.”

Regarding ICE. ICE was created post 9/11 in an attempt to keep terrorists out, not as a deportation force to harass immigrants and destroy families. That's why people want to abolish ICE, because it is not serving its intended purpose.

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This whole immigration debate is simply about xenophobia and racism. Unemployment is at record lows, immigration was at a net negative until this uptick during Trump's administration. So why is it an issue? Fear of a brown planet.

[DKjaigen]

I can't think of anybody who was for open borders since Ronald Reagan.

"Rather than talking about putting up a fence, why don’t we work out some recognition of our mutual problems, make it possible for them to come here legally with a work permit, and then, while they’re working and earning here, they pay taxes here. And when they want to go back they can go back, and cross. And open the border both ways, by understanding their problems. This is the only safety valve they have right now, with that unemployment, that probably keeps the lid from blowing off…And I think we could have a fine relationship.”

Regarding ICE. ICE was created post 9/11 in an attempt to keep terrorists out, not as a deportation force to harass immigrants and destroy families. That's why people want to abolish ICE, because it is not serving its intended purpose.

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This whole immigration debate is simply about xenophobia and racism. Unemployment is at record lows, immigration was at a net negative until this uptick during Trump's administration. So why is it an issue? Fear of a brown planet.

Another bourgeois globalist that is an enemy of the working class.

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Except that they're not being cared for or even screened properly there, as we repeatedly see despite the efforts of those running the concentration camps to keep lawmakers and media out as much as they can.

/shrug blame both political parties for dragging their feet. The problem is resources and ice is not getting enough of that. Oh btw didn't AOC and her disgusting ilk attempted to block the relieve package intended for the people in detention camps?

[Machismo]

Another bourgeois globalist that is an enemy of the working class.

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/shrug blame both political parties for dragging their feet. The problem is resources and ice is not getting enough of that. Oh btw didn't AOC and her disgusting ilk attempted to block the relieve package intended for the people in detention camps?

Uhh, most immigrants tend to be working class, so supporting immigration would be supporting their freedoms.

Man, you didn't think that one through.

[Edge-]

Oh btw didn't AOC and her disgusting ilk attempted to block the relieve package intended for the people in detention camps?

I dunno, what are you referencing?

[DKjaigen]

Uhh, most immigrants tend to be working class, so supporting immigration would be supporting their freedoms.

Man, you didn't think that one through.

MY people first then the others. If you flood the labour market with low skilled labour it becomes saturated and that means anybody who has a low paying job their position
will become terrible. Lower wages and lower job security. Second part is that these economic migrants usually need a lot of social welfare before they can even work and that means less to the poor sick and elderly. So yes as usually the regressive leftists like you are fucking over the most vulnerable of our society. You dont even realise you are doing this but this does happen.

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I dunno, what are you referencing?

https://dailycaller.com/2019/06/22/p...minal-ice-cbp/

[Wyrt]

Another bourgeois globalist that is an enemy of the working class.

Yes, yes, keep blaming immigrants for the plight of the working class. It is clearly their fault. Pay no attention to the corporations.

This has literally been the US bourgeois(your term) go to tactic since the very start of the country. Always, always blame someone else to distract from the corporations robbing the working class of fair wages.

I don't understand why people keep falling for the same old bullshit. Same shit, different race. We've been over this shit with the Irish, Italians, Germans, French, "ethnic" Europeans, Chinese, and now it's the South Americans. It's the same old fucking tired ass bullshit.

[Machismo]

MY people first then the others. If you flood the labour market with low skilled labour it becomes saturated and that means anybody who has a low paying job their position
will become terrible. Lower wages and lower job security. Second part is that these economic migrants usually need a lot of social welfare before they can even work and that means less to the poor sick and elderly. So yes as usually the regressive leftists like you are fucking over the most vulnerable of our society. You dont even realise you are doing this but this does happen.

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https://dailycaller.com/2019/06/22/p...minal-ice-cbp/

Then it's not about the working class, so you are being disingenuous. It's about nationalism... or even possibly worse, white nationalism.

Great, get rid of welfare, and yes, that means for everyone. Stop giving it to farmers, veterans, the elderly, government employees, and everyone else.

Oh, you thought I was a regressive leftist... nope, I'm an actual small-government conservative... unlike the Trumpsters and the GOP. Their platform is based on nationalism, xenophobia, and racism. I mean, you are literally arguing against capitalism and the free markets... and you want to call me a regressive leftist?

[BigToast]

MY people first then the others. If you flood the labour market with low skilled labour it becomes saturated and that means anybody who has a low paying job their position
will become terrible. Lower wages and lower job security. Second part is that these economic migrants usually need a lot of social welfare before they can even work and that means less to the poor sick and elderly. So yes as usually the regressive leftists like you are fucking over the most vulnerable of our society. You dont even realise you are doing this but this does happen.

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https://dailycaller.com/2019/06/22/p...minal-ice-cbp/

Yep, he referenced the Daily Caller. Shocking. I suspect this guy is upset that a migrant worker stole his job picking fruit in the fields. Sorry

[DKjaigen]

Yes, yes, keep blaming immigrants for the plight of the working class. It is clearly their fault. Pay no attention to the corporations.

This has literally been the US bourgeois(your term) go to tactic since the very start of the country. Always, always blame someone else to distract from the corporations robbing the working class of fair wages.

And have you ever heard of a big corporation speaking against mass immigration? or globalism? They coat their laissez-faire capitalist BS with some progressive sauce and you people eat that shit up because you don't think . Nike hires Kaepernick because he kneels during the national anthem. HOW PROGRESSIVE! and it worked because Nike´s sales went way up. And not one of you where concerned for the wage slaves who are usually children. That is what the left has become.

I don't understand why people keep falling for the same old bullshit. Same shit, different race. We've been over this shit with the Irish, Italians, Germans, French, "ethnic" Europeans, Chinese, and now it's the South Americans. It's the same old fucking tired ass bullshit.

History has shown us that some migrations are beneficial and some are not. Taking the pro and cons is would say the ILLEGAL migration from south America is not beneficial but the legal one is .

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Then it's not about the working class, so you are being disingenuous. It's about nationalism... or even possibly worse, white nationalism.

Great, get rid of welfare, and yes, that means for everyone. Stop giving it to farmers, veterans, the elderly, government employees, and everyone else.

Oh, you thought I was a regressive leftist... nope, I'm an actual small-government conservative... unlike the Trumpsters and the GOP. Their platform is based on nationalism, xenophobia, and racism. I mean, you are literally arguing against capitalism and the free markets... and you want to call me a regressive leftist?

You fear nationalism because it can unify people to stop you and your worthless globalism ideology. Doesn't matter if you are black white or brown i can unify people under a shared set of ideals. And yes i am against free market and capitalism that is completely out of government control.

[Wyrt]

And have you ever heard of a big corporation speaking against mass immigration? or globalism? They coat their laissez-faire capitalist BS with some progressive sauce and you people eat that shit up because you don't think . Nike hires Kaepernick because he kneels during the national anthem. HOW PROGRESSIVE! and it worked because Nike´s sales went way up. And not one of you where concerned for the wage slaves who are usually children. That is what the left has become.



History has shown us that some migrations are beneficial and some are not. Taking the pro and cons is would say the ILLEGAL migration from south America is not beneficial but the legal one is .

Yes, yes, good, keep blaming the poor immigrants. Ignore the corporations fucking people over. Do as your corporate overlords wish.

[DKjaigen]

Yep, he referenced the Daily Caller. Shocking. I suspect this guy is upset that a migrant worker stole his job picking fruit in the fields. Sorry

what kind of fucking madness are you suffering from mate? it has links to her own twitter page.

https://twitter.com/AOC/status/11424...nal-ice-cbp%2F

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Yes, yes, good, keep blaming the poor immigrants. Ignore the corporations fucking people over. Do as your corporate overlords wish.

You cannot even form single point of defence in your case and you call me a corporate slave?

[Wyrt]

You cannot even form single point of defence in your case and you call me a corporate slave?

A defense of what? The random strawman you threw at me? No, I deliberately ignored it.