Nazjatar and night elfs (also nightborne).

[Wangming]

I never like Nelves as much as Worgen or Pandaren but I'm starting to feel really sorry for them. This does seem like a: Fuck Night Elves expansion.

Oh and a fuck Tyrande especially.

I also liked how her big moment included Malfurion helping her. How about she ditches her boyfriend and does things on her own like she did for thousands of years between the War of the Ancients and Warcraft III?

Well, he isn't wrong.

Many Nightborne don't really see Nelves in a good light, they even openly mock them for not using magic and relying on stuff like bows and sticks, and their overall ignorance. Nelves don't like Nightborne either, they're seen as arrogant snobs.

So yeah, Nelves are peasants/plebs/rednecks from Nightborne's PoV.

Which would give the race an interesting story if Nightborne and normal Nelves were different social classes of the same race. Like they used to be.

But they Nightbourne did. They sought out both the Night Elves and the High Elves since all three were the same people. Lor'themar and Liadrin welcomed them... Tyrande not so much.



It's not a lack of diplomacy... it's the fact that Tyrande is still chewing her liver over what Azshara did 10,000 years ago. Look at the dialog. The Nightbourne were not like the High Elves that separated from the Night Elves and left to establish Quel'thalas and eventually became addicted to the Sunwell as a result of playing with it. The Nightbourne became dependent on the Nightwell after they were cut off in the midst of the Well of Eternity's implosion. Their addiction was not the result of recklessness.

But the thing is the Nightbourne were still Highbourne. Tyrande could not see past that little fact. In her mind, 10,000 years had not passed at all and these were the same people that were in Suramar before the destruction of the Well. Keep in mind as well that Thalyssra had just ordered the Nightwell be allowed to dissipate after removing the Eye of Aman'thul destabilized it. So of the three major fonts of power, only one still remains being the Sun Well. So how could Thalyssra "become the next Elysande... the next Azshara"? They couldn't, not without the High Elves of Quel'thalas.

Even Elysande is more sympathetic since the only reason she even made the deal with Gul'dan and the Legion to begin with was because she could only see that timeline as the one where her people survived. If she had refused, Gul'dan would have simply just taken the Nightwell and the Nightbourn would have withered before the Arcan'dor would have been able to restore them. And in the end she sided with us after she found her scrying did not show her that we would defeat the Legion.

Sure, but here's the thing. Tyrande didn't point a gun at the writer's head to have her written as an unsymapthetic jerk. It was a deliberate decision for divide the Nelves and their long lost cousins and make it Tyrande's fault. A fault she can't undo now that Nightborne are a Horde allied race.

Same way it was a deliberate choice to exclude Night Elves from the Nazjatar story.

[Arrashi]

You kinda funny.
But actually you arent.

But its true. Hell, seeing all that "savage kaldorei" memes people want them to go all out redneck. Like in "Deliverance".

[VladlTutushkin]

But its true. Hell, seeing all that "savage kaldorei" memes people want them to go all out redneck. Like in "Deliverance".

Well kinda. But at the same time it isnt exactly the same situation since for example after Cata night elfs have Highborne with them.

[ls-]

Which would give the race an interesting story if Nightborne and normal Nelves were different social classes of the same race. Like they used to be.

Writing a story for a non-Human Ally race? Wuuut? Are you insane? That's like saying, that Belves and not Orcs must be in the spotlight. Ultimately, despite having 13+ playable races, WoW boils down to Orcs vs Humans, which is unfortunate for everyone who isn't a fan of either of two races, heck, even diehard fans eventually start suffering from Human/Orc fatigue.

Said fatigue doesn't seem to affect the writers though, which is sad...

[Arrashi]

Well kinda. But at the same time it isnt exactly the same situation since for example after Cata night elfs have Highborne with them.

Yeah and seeing "amazing" magical feats of those nightborne we can say that redneck with glasses is still redneck.

[ls-]

Yeah and seeing "amazing" magical feats of those nightborne we can say that redneck with glasses is still redneck.

You meant Highborne.

[VladlTutushkin]

Yeah and seeing "amazing" magical feats of those nightborne we can say that redneck with glasses is still redneck.

Not our fault that blizz only give good things to the Horde.

[Arrashi]

You meant Highborne.

Indeed i meant highborne.

- - - Updated - - -

Not our fault that blizz only give good things to the Horde.

Yes yes, when in doubt horde bias out.

[VladlTutushkin]

Indeed i meant highborne.

- - - Updated - - -



Yes yes, when in doubt horde bias out.

You really want to argue about that? Their whole way of telling the story is “this isnt the story i wanted to tell”. Aka Vindicaar plothole and such. Same with Highborne who managed to enslave a demon and fed from it for 10000 years without getting Fel corrupted or addicted. But they dont want to explore or show more of them so Nightborne it is. Horde. Bias. Is. Real. And if you dont like it - its not my fault.

[Wangming]

Writing a story for a non-Human Ally race? Wuuut? Are you insane? That's like saying, that Belves and not Orcs must be in the spotlight. Ultimately, despite having 13+ playable races, WoW boils down to Orcs vs Humans, which is unfortunate for everyone who isn't a fan of either of two races, heck, even diehard fans eventually start suffering from Human/Orc fatigue.

Said fatigue doesn't seem to affect the writers though, which is sad...

I know. Sad. Literally the only good thing out of BfA is that now it is Zombies vs Humans, for a change. But god forbid Orcs aren't relevant for one fucking expansion Varok "told being awesome cause they can't bother to show it" Saurfang is pulling a Vol'Jin so it is Dead Humans VS Orcs and Humans.

- - - Updated - - -

You really want to argue about that? Their whole way of telling the story is “this isnt the story i wanted to tell”. Aka Vindicaar plothole and such. Same with Highborne who managed to enslave a demon and fed from it for 10000 years without getting Fel corrupted or addicted. But they dont want to explore or show more of them so Nightborne it is. Horde. Bias. Is. Real. And if you dont like it - its not my fault.

You forgot how the Alliance not only gets left out of the Vol'Jin storyline, there is no Alliance equivalent. A yet unseen force made sure Sylvanas is made Warchief and the yet unseen boss of Bwonsamdi is not happy about it. This is completely Horde exclusive. Same with what happens to Xalatath.

[ls-]

I know. Sad. Literally the only good thing out of BfA is that now it is Zombies vs Humans, for a change. But god forbid Orcs aren't relevant for one fucking expansion Varok "told being awesome cause they can't bother to show it" Saurfang is pulling a Vol'Jin so it is Dead Humans VS Orcs and Humans.

Undead were involved at the very beginning, but now... When it comes to the main storyline you're still following Honourfang's Saurfang's orders, and the story itself revolves around Orcs w/ the help of Humans revolting against Sylvanas, who isn't doing anything besides telling us to play along w/ Saurfang & Co. again and again.

The only thing Forsaken do is hanging out on their ship in Zandalar, or shouting at you during WQs.

[Eosia]

Sure, but here's the thing. Tyrande didn't point a gun at the writer's head to have her written as an unsymapthetic jerk. It was a deliberate decision for divide the Nelves and their long lost cousins and make it Tyrande's fault. A fault she can't undo now that Nightborne are a Horde allied race.

Same way it was a deliberate choice to exclude Night Elves from the Nazjatar story.

So she's supposed to be a little goody-goody like Anduin?

You forgot how the Alliance not only gets left out of the Vol'Jin storyline, there is no Alliance equivalent. A yet unseen force made sure Sylvanas is made Warchief and the yet unseen boss of Bwonsamdi is not happy about it. This is completely Horde exclusive. Same with what happens to Xalatath.

There is no Alliance equivalent because the faction does not call for it. Alliance succession is determined by consanguinity... so when Varian was turned into Fel-flavored Jell-O™ at the Broken Shore, Anduin automatically assumed power. There was no meeting between the racial leaders or a vote from the people. Anduin is it as will be his spawn when he dies until the line is extinguished or removed from power by the Alliance itself.

The Horde Warchief on the the other hand picks his/her successor. Thrall chose Garrosh to lead the Horde in Cataclysm in honor of his father, Grommash. Unfortunately Thrall's choice was flawed as we saw in MoP/WoD. So he rectified that mistake in MoP and selected Vol'jin who kept the Horde together. Vol'jin, on the advice of someone, selected Sylvanas. So there is plenty to explore about that especially given the fact that they're tracking Kerrigan/Queen of Blades with her.

[Wangming]

Undead were involved at the very beginning, but now... When it comes to the main storyline you're still following Honourfang's Saurfang's orders, and the story itself revolves around Orcs w/ the help of Humans revolting against Sylvanas, who isn't doing anything besides telling us to play along w/ Saurfang & Co. again and again.

The only thing Forsaken do is hanging out on their ship in Zandalar, or shouting at you during WQs.

They have a master plan that involves freeing an Old God that totally isn't Garrosh 2.0 and will not involve killing Sylvanas in a raid.

So she's supposed to be a little goody-goody like Anduin?

No. But how about she starts as a jerk, gets humbled somehow and changes her stance about the Nightborne? You know, actual character development. Like how actual writers do it.

Let me ask you this. When you first learned about a society of Highborne that lived in isolation since the Sundering. Was your first, or even second, reaction: Boy, they would make an awesome Horde race.

[ls-]

So she's supposed to be a little goody-goody like Anduin?

How dare you not like our God-King Anduin? Heretic!

[shuubu]

Is it just me,or whole Nazjatar questline is designed as “final shot” to the heart of the night elven community/fanbase?
y.

Yes. That is the sole reason why this patch came to be.

[VladlTutushkin]

Yes. That is the sole reason why this patch came to be.

No need to be snarky, it just looks this way, feels this way and kinda plays this way.

[Eosia]

No. But how about she starts as a jerk, gets humbled somehow and changes her stance about the Nightborne? You know, actual character development. Like how actual writers do it.

But that is out of character for her. She is ruthless. Or did you not play WarCraft III where she slaughtered her own people, the Wardens under Maive's command, to release Illidan even though Malfurion was against it? She has always had an "I am right and everyone else is wrong" attitude and nothing major has come along to disabuse her of that notion. Someone down the road might have the balls to tell her "Hey, you need to stop acting like a bitch. We could have reunited with our kin in Suramar but you just cannot let things go."

Character development does not necessarily mean doing a complete 180. It has to be believable. It's believable that Tyrande ignores facts that do not fit her agenda.

Let me ask you this. When you first learned about a society of Highborne that lived in isolation since the Sundering. Was your first, or even second, reaction: Boy, they would make an awesome Horde race.

No. Because I actually thought they were done adding races.

- - - Updated - - -

How dare you not like our God-King Anduin? Heretic!

I like him a lot... especially on the pike I installed on the Orgimmar Ramparts for his impaled corpse.

[eurojust]

They have a master plan that involves freeing an Old God that totally isn't Garrosh 2.0 and will not involve killing Sylvanas in a raid.



No. But how about she starts as a jerk, gets humbled somehow and changes her stance about the Nightborne? You know, actual character development. Like how actual writers do it.

Let me ask you this. When you first learned about a society of Highborne that lived in isolation since the Sundering. Was your first, or even second, reaction: Boy, they would make an awesome Horde race.

Suramar wasn't a society of Highbornes iirc

[Jetpistol]

IMO, Blizzard has messed up so bad with patch in terms of story. Azshara could very well might die but i highly doubt that because shes literally the only lore figure that stands out other than the old gods, illidan, and titans. this was expected for blizzard to not include the story with all the elves that had a relation with the Queen. I mean if you have a poorly done expansion, whats the point of going all in for the story when major of the players who left the game wont see it? Someone might say they should do that to entice players back into the game which is true but with the way things are from their standpoint, all people would do will just watch ciematics on youtube and call it a day.

[Wangming]

But that is out of character for her. She is ruthless. Or did you not play WarCraft III where she slaughtered her own people, the Wardens under Maive's command, to release Illidan even though Malfurion was against it? She has always had an "I am right and everyone else is wrong" attitude and nothing major has come along to disabuse her of that notion. Someone down the road might have the balls to tell her "Hey, you need to stop acting like a bitch. We could have reunited with our kin in Suramar but you just cannot let things go."

Character development does not necessarily mean doing a complete 180. It has to be believable. It's believable that Tyrande ignores facts that do not fit her agenda.

Well they had the entire expansion to do that slowly gradually since they forgot to do that in the time since WarCraft III.