“Tell your King,he is not alone" What this means?

[Mehrunes]

Won't waste my time anymore. /ignore

You sure showed me right now When making shit up doesn't work, making a public spectacle ignoring the person one couldn't argue against will sure elevate their argument, it is known.

I'm not going to defend Varian's short comings, but I believe it's because of them that she was worried. If you set mouse traps and the creature ran through each one, you'd sigh. But if it lived through each trap and just came charging faster than the last, you'd be worried. Varian did some idiotic things, but his idiocy in itself is a threat. Anduin is not the type to dash into the fray, but it's that personality that lets Sylvanas set even more elaborate plays.

I'd be more worried about the mouse that survives consecutive spring traps over the one that gets stuck on the glue pad.

It's more because Varian could keep the people that are even more idiotic than him in check, like @Mardux said. Anduin is capable of spending a second about thinking about what's going on, but he lets things like Stormheim or Silithus happen, because some people in the Alliance don't give a shit about his peacemongering to the point of being willing to outright break his orders if it means they can attack some Horde. And since he's only all talk about said peacemongering, he then ignores that. Varian never let such a thing happen in the first place and even in case something like that had happened under his rule, chances are that he'd punish those guilty.

Because when it comes to Sylvanas' own experiences, the mouse either ran away or outright died, depending on the front. Varian's repeated banging of his head against the wall happened on the Ashenvale front, where he was locked in an eternal stalemate with the thickheaded-ness equal he found in Garrosh.

Also, while Anduin may be more wary, I'd disagree with the notion that he's not the type to dash into the fray altogether. Because that's precisely the thing he did at Lordaeron. It could be argued that it's because emotions were high after Teldrassil, but that would only give as explanation as to why, it wouldn't change that it was him dashing.

Because dash he did, without anything resembling an actual plan. Even putting Alliance's ginormous plot-armor at Lordaeron aside, the reason why they weren't all turned to sludge because of his unpreparedness there was Jaina's conveniently timed arrival that no one in the Alliance even knew about.

[Rozz]

Also, while Anduin may be more wary, I'd disagree with the notion that he's not the type to dash into the fray altogether. Because that's precisely the thing he did at Lordaeron. It could be argued that it's because emotions were high after Teldrassil, but that would only give as explanation as to why, it wouldn't change that it was him dashing. Because dash he did, without anything resembling an actual plan. Even putting Alliance's ginormous plot-armor at Lordaeron aside, the reason why they weren't all turned to sludge because of his unpreparedness there was Jaina's conveniently timed arrival that no one in the Alliance even knew about.

Tbh that ntire scenario was weird for multiple characters. Anduin isn't the type to forget the blight exists and I feel like the authors tried too hard to make him like Varian in that moment. Tbh even Varian at the start of Legion probably wouldn't be dumb enough to do that either. That was just really stupid.

[omeomorfismo]

Welcome to where the nelf and Alliance players are since the BfA prepatch. Blizzard made it pretty clear that they don't give a shit about the fact that most nelf fans and a lot of Alliace players DO NOT consider Tides of Vengeance as vengeance for Teldrassil. We DO NOT want to forgive and forget and work with the Horde either.

Welcome to "just unsubscribe". At least that's what a ton of nelf/Alliance players did. There were entire nelf RP communities literally wiped out during the cause of this "storytelling". I guess Blizz don't mind losing the players of the 2nd most popular Alliance faction, do they?

isnt like that ally had to watch a dumb orc spare malfurion without the ability to do anything, watch deus ex jaina save the entire battle in lordaeron multiple time out of her ass, watch both jaina and mekkatorque escaping a raid, watch ally denying the entire horde war campaign, help a shitty cow murdering an entire boat of our comrades and help 3 traitors to free that cow.
you had at least rastakhan head and an half assed revenge, we had at best plaguing to death enemies in lordaeron and thats all...

[Rozz]

Varian probably also wouldnt have let greymane do whatever-the-fuck he wants with zero repercussions or let calia pull the shit she did at the Gathering, both ensuring the war would continue.

Knowing how harsh Varian was with Genn, he'd probably exile her to distance the Alliance from the incident. Well tbh Varian wouldn't have even let the event occur in the first place. He'd probably say it'd just antagonize Sylvanas unnecessarily and the iota of peace they currently have after Legion is more important.

[Mehrunes]

Tbh that ntire scenario was weird for multiple characters. Anduin isn't the type to forget the blight exists and I feel like the authors tried too hard to make him like Varian in that moment. Tbh even Varian at the start of Legion probably wouldn't be dumb enough to do that either. That was just really stupid.

Well, yeah, the entirety of BfA is. Though Lordaeron is indeed near the top of the list when it comes to stupid moments in BfA.

[Jastall]

I kinda doubt Kul Tiras was the biggest fan of it either. You know, given Daelin's desire to see the Orcs burn even after they helped save the world and after his own daughter assured him they can live in peace with the Alliance.

Oh, I'm sure Daelin was livid as well, but he remained Alliance to the very end regardless.

Mind, I agree with @Super Dickmann that the Horde getting out with a slap on the wrist another time is ridiculous, even if inevitable due to gameplay mechanics.

Even character wise it's worse than in Mists, where Varian mellowing out was at least shown as an expansion-long affair and partly caused by his son's influence. Jaina in BfA goes from the Daughter of the Sea invading the homes of her enemies, participating in an assassination and holding out Horde war parties by her lonesome, to wishing for peace and love forever within the space of a .5 patch. Because of the brother that the Horde scrounged up, painfully resurrected as a living weapon, and condemned to a life of misery and (possibly) an afterlife of torment.

[Specialka]

Oh, I'm sure Daelin was livid as well, but he remained Alliance to the very end regardless.

Mind, I agree with @Super Dickmann that the Horde getting out with a slap on the wrist another time is ridiculous, even if inevitable due to gameplay mechanics.

Even character wise it's worse than in Mists, where Varian mellowing out was at least shown as an expansion-long affair and partly caused by his son's influence. Jaina in BfA goes from the Daughter of the Sea invading the homes of her enemies, participating in an assassination and holding out Horde war parties by her lonesome, to wishing for peace and love forever within the space of a .5 patch. Because of the brother that the Horde scrounged up, painfully resurrected as a living weapon, and condemned to a life of misery and (possibly) an afterlife of torment.

Maybe because she saw in the action of Baine the "True Horde", the one that did not forgets honor. That she saw Thrall and Saurfang act with honor beause they tried to free Baine on their own.

[Darknessvamp]

Maybe because she saw in the action of Baine the "True Horde", the one that did not forgets honor. That she saw Thrall and Saurfang act with honor beause they tried to free Baine on their own.

lol as if Jaina cares about Honour, she did it because Anduin is affecting her with his Peace Aura. Also on the topic of Anduin and Jaina's belief in honour, get back to me when Ms. Teleports where ever she pleases and can literally magic boats in the air with no explanation broaches the topic of leaving Varian to die at BS with him.

[Specialka]

lol as if Jaina cares about Honour, she did it because Anduin is affecting her with his Peace Aura. Also on the topic of Anduin and Jaina's belief in honour, get back to me when Ms. Teleports where ever she pleases and can literally magic boats in the air with no explanation broaches the topic of leaving Varian to die at BS with him.

She was not at broken shore, wasn't she?

As usual, I guess when teleporting you need to know where you will land, so she could not just warp in, grab him and warp out.

[Verdugo]

She was not at broken shore, wasn't she?

She was. Of course you would know that if you didnt focus on sad cinematics where people are sad so you can also feel sad.

[Specialka]

True, I remember now. She did some kind of ice bridge when Thrall did a stone bridge. But we do not see her afterwards. And we can guess she was too exhausted to do anything.

[Verdugo]

True, I remember now. She did some kind of ice bridge when Thrall did a stone bridge. But we do not see her afterwards. And we can guess she was too exhausted to do anything.

Are you actually defending a plot hole here? Just so I know what am I dealing with.

[Specialka]

I am not here to argue with you. She did not warp out Varian because she could not. Period.

This is not the first time one of the main character do not use his/her op power to further the plot.

In that battle or video, did we see Sylvanas using her banshee ability and such? Nope.

Same for Jaina.

[Darknessvamp]

True, I remember now. She did some kind of ice bridge when Thrall did a stone bridge. But we do not see her afterwards. And we can guess she was too exhausted to do anything.

Well if we consider Jaina didn't have any power up prior to Battle for Lordaeron, we can assume she should have been capable of the same crazy bs at BS which means a teleport after summoning an ice bridge should be no problem for someone who can ice a whole field and then teleport four people afterwards, onto a ship she kept afloat overhead, by her magic. I mean she also wasn't too exhausted to go on a year long vacation "slaying demons" to deal with her emotions afterwards whilst completely ignoring the main problems with the Legion and somehow ended up getting her own personal Kul'tiran ship out of nowhere from the bottom of the sea several years after it had been sunk and with barely any damage during it.

What always tickles me pink about Jaina and the Broken Shore she abandoned is

The Alliance forces watched helplessly as King Varian Wrynn sacrificed himself by distracting the Burning Legion forces so that the Alliance forces can fly to safety. In the aftermath of the battle she attends Varian's funeral, and is outraged at her belief that the Horde left the Alliance to die against the demons

[Mehrunes]

I am not here to argue with you. She did not warp out Varian because she could not. Period.

This is not the first time one of the main character do not use his/her op power to further the plot.

In that battle or video, did we see Sylvanas using her banshee ability and such? Nope.

Same for Jaina.

I'm sorry, what? "She did not warp out Varian because she could not. Period."? What kind of faulty argumentation and logic is that? This is nothing more than your supposition, so why are you treating it as fact? For all you know she did not warp out Varian because she was making out with a Legion's succubus in some ditch.

Then there's your argument about Sylvanas. Where according to you hers and Jaina's cases are the same. So combine the two and you get the idea that if we do not see a character doing something, they are unable to do it at the time. Which is all sorts of bizarre.

[mickybrighteyes]

Liberate? You will invade Thunderbluff....
Last time i checked the taurens are loyal to the Horde and the warchief.

Last I checked the only person saying that was Thrall

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Well if we consider Jaina didn't have any power up prior to Battle for Lordaeron, we can assume she should have been capable of the same crazy bs at BS which means a teleport after summoning an ice bridge should be no problem for someone who can ice a whole field and then teleport four people afterwards, onto a ship she kept afloat overhead, by her magic. I mean she also wasn't too exhausted to go on a year long vacation "slaying demons" to deal with her emotions afterwards whilst completely ignoring the main problems with the Legion and somehow ended up getting her own personal Kul'tiran ship out of nowhere from the bottom of the sea several years after it had been sunk and with barely any damage during it.

What always tickles me pink about Jaina and the Broken Shore she abandoned is

I was sooooo hoping that Jaina Dreadlord theory was real. She always seemed to dip out when she would have been needed most or RIGHT before an Illidari showed up with their magic sight.

[MatthiasVonTzeskagrad]

I'm sorry, what? "She did not warp out Varian because she could not. Period."? What kind of faulty argumentation and logic is that? This is nothing more than your supposition, so why are you treating it as fact? For all you know she did not warp out Varian because she was making out with a Legion's succubus in some ditch.

Then there's your argument about Sylvanas. Where according to you hers and Jaina's cases are the same. So combine the two and you get the idea that if we do not see a character doing something, they are unable to do it at the time. Which is all sorts of bizarre.

Also, who can tell if Sylvanas wasn't using banshee stuff on demons out of cameras? She could, it's just so many noise and demons she only stopped herself from screaming, and if she killed a bunch of trash mobs who cares, there was a gazillion more. A different deal with Jaina, it's clearly she didn't port Varian, because he was down there, and if she port him behind the cameras he should be up there.

[mickybrighteyes]

I'm still baffled as to why Varian would have to dive the Fel Reaver when there were perfectly good starboard/portside artillery cannons mounted on the ship that probably would have hit with more force than his armor clad self.

[Feanoro]

I'm still baffled as to why Varian would have to dive the Fel Reaver when there were perfectly good starboard/portside artillery cannons mounted on the ship that probably would have hit with more force than his armor clad self.

Rule of cool, and setting up the lame as hell "misunderstanding" of Broken Shore.

[Aurabolt]

Can we please get back on topic? The constant bickering has taken this thread pretty far in an ugly direction.

I'm still baffled as to why Varian would have to dive the Fel Reaver when there were perfectly good starboard/portside artillery cannons mounted on the ship that probably would have hit with more force than his armor clad self.

That would have happened if it were possible first and thought to have worked second. Or do I need to remind of what happened just before that? The Horde was getting overrun from their support position and were forced to withdraw (The Alliance forces below didn't know the Horde were getting routed from their vantage point). Varian ordered a full retreat and during said retreat the Fel Reaver grabbed the gunship.

Things were pretty crazy to say the least and almost everyone was shell shocked, badly wounded, dead or trying to retreat. Varian knew he had the best chance out of everyone there of being able to one-shot the Fel Reaver so he did, knowing fully well he wasn't going to leave alive even if he succeeded. His priority at that point was ensuring as many survivors got out alive as possible and in that he succeeded. Sylvanas did the same for the Horde when she gave the retreat order after Vol'Jin was cut down.

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Can we please get back on topic? The constant bickering has taken this thread pretty far in an ugly direction.



That would have happened if it were possible first and thought to have worked second. Or do I need to remind of what happened just before that? The Horde was getting overrun from their support position and were forced to withdraw (The Alliance forces below didn't know the Horde were getting routed from their vantage point). Varian ordered a full retreat and during said retreat the Fel Reaver grabbed the gunship.

Things were pretty crazy to say the least and almost everyone was shell shocked, badly wounded, dead or trying to retreat. Varian knew he had the best chance out of everyone there of being able to one-shot the Fel Reaver so he did, knowing fully well he wasn't going to leave alive even if he succeeded. His priority at that point was ensuring as many survivors got out alive as possible and in that he succeeded. Sylvanas did the same for the Horde when she gave the retreat order after Vol'Jin was cut down.

Rule of cool, and setting up the lame as hell "misunderstanding" of Broken Shore.

...Nah, it was pretty effective.

Varian was the only thing keeping Genn in check up to then. Between the misunderstanding and then watching Varian die in front of him because of said misunderstanding--I do think the Alliance + Horde forces would've been routed even if the misunderstanding didn't happen personally--that was all it took. Genn already had personal beef with Sylvanas over Gilneas and his son so...yeah. Again, Varian was the only thing keeping Genn in check up to the events of the Broken Shore.