Why exactly are people so anti-LFR?

[bufferunderrun]

From a progression standpoint, there's absolutely no reason whatsoever to step foot into LFR - you can get as good or better gear just by doing dailies. The only reason anybody does LFR is likely because it's a way for them to see content they otherwise wouldn't see likely because they're too busy to be in an active raiding guild or don't care to invest that much time into the game. So what exactly is the problem with allowing "casuals" to see this content when they're not even being rewarded for it? Why is LFR such a major talking point for classic fanboys and the like? How does it affect your gameplay at all? I personally don't use LFR and forget it exists most of the time so I struggle to understand why so many people have such an issue with it when the only thing people get from it is trash gear (hardly the "free epixx" people frame it as).

imho there is only one real reason behind the hate and has nothing to do with how difficult lfr is, peoples hate it because it completely drained guild recruiting pool and i'm not talking about high end heroic/mythic guilds, those i'm talking about were friends&family guilds those who back in wrath run 10man/25man(with pug members) normal mode.

Nowadays only those really interested enter a guild, being it for the challenge or for the extra reward the others just run lfr that killed a plethora of guilds who had survived only thanks to peoples being forced to commit to one; there is a salty bunch of ex GM, ex RL and ex Officers who don't have the ability to run a decent guild who hate lfr.

[Melsiren]

I drew the line at cross realm BGs, anything past that I feel was bad for the game.

[mvaliz]

THAT is one of the most destructive arguments to the video game industry.

It is not, it's the truth. I can point to several several gaming successes that are successes due to what I said being true. Skyrim is a splendid example of this.

Saying "People haven't changed" is a lie. Or, at best, it's a dishonest half-truth.

The truth is "Some older geeks haven't changed - the gaming audience, however, has grown larger and more diverse with more people in it."

You keep saying that's destructive, and yet - here we are - 3 expansions later, and somehow LFR hasn't destroyed Retail yet. What's so special about LFR in BfA that didn't "destroy" it in WoD or Legion?

That's why classic will be so successful compared to retail.

Come back in 3 months and try telling me the same thing. Hell, these past few days reactions to the Molten Core/Ony drops are already proving you wrong.

[Granyala]

Because it gives you a false sense of accomplishment, that will lower your ambitions to actually do the content in the appropriate way: heroic/mythic with a group of friends.

If LFRs existence is enough to lower your inhibitions to not want to raid, you're never been raiding material anyway.

[Ssateneth]

Why is this in the classic WoW Forum? This has nothing to do with classic. Please move thread to the appropriate forum.

[-aiko-]

yes, instead of being walked through a completely foreign subject, people need to hit the ground running!

What an absolute nonsense post this was.

Nobody wants LFR to be difficult, we just want it to actually represent what raiding is about. Current LFR is like teaching kids to play basketball by giving them a ball and telling them to keep throwing it until it finally goes into the basket and they all win. Surprise, that's not how it works. We teach them the fundamentals and have them play with other kids. We teach them teamwork and friendly competition. We teach them it's okay to lose.

[mvaliz]

Why is this in the classic WoW Forum? This has nothing to do with classic. Please move thread to the appropriate forum.

Huh.. I didn't even notice it was until now. Just followed a link from somewhere else! :P

I guess that explains why there's so many ravenously close-minded people in this thread, willfully trapped in a timeline when they were probably happier and less responsibilities hitting them in the face by a boxing glove with the words "Reality!" written on the front of it.

I'm guessing this was meant to be a thread about somebody's opinion in suggesting updating/improving Classic in some way?

- - - Updated - - -

What an absolute nonsense post this was.

Nobody wants LFR to be difficult, we just want it to actually represent what raiding is about. Current LFR is like teaching kids to play basketball by giving them a ball and telling them to keep throwing it until it finally goes into the basket and they all win. Surprise, that's not how it works. We teach them the fundamentals and have them play with other kids. We teach them teamwork and friendly competition. We teach them it's okay to lose.

When did Blizzard say that LFR is supposed to be designed to teach people to raid normal mode and further encourage them to play Normal mode?

For that matter... when was it said that LFR was designed to "Teach" people anything!? o_O

Lastly, what's wrong with some kids shooting baskets? Is it because you feel that's not "Regular Basketball"? Well, that's why it's called "LFR" and not "Regular Raiding"! ^_^

Do you yell at a kid in in the basketball court shooting hoops saying "Get out noob, you're not a REAL basketball player!"? Ever consider that some kids just find it fun to shoot hoops instead?

[Maarius]

Saying that classic raids are easier than lfr raids is a lie, in classic you need to know what you're doing or you're dead. I can't remember lfr mechanics that killed you.

Personally I dislike the existence of LFR as well as the existence of all the other difficulty modes because of what it did to gearing. We now have huge itemlevel jumps with each new raidtier and each stat squish is basically wasted.

[-aiko-]

When did Blizzard say that LFR is supposed to be designed to teach people to raid normal mode and further encourage them to play Normal mode?

From its conception LFR was announced as a quick way to create a pick-up raiding group, and to this day Blizzard still refers to it as a raid activity. We don't expect everyone who plays a game of basketball in the gym as a kid to have aspirations of playing high-school, college, or NBA basketball...but at least we respect the sport enough to teach the right fundamentals for those kids who do.

Lastly, what's wrong with some kids shooting baskets? Is it because you feel that's not "Regular Basketball"? Well, that's why it's called "LFR" and not "Regular Raiding"! ^_^

There is nothing wrong with kids shooting baskets, except that's not a good comparison to what LFR is. Kids can "shoot around baskets" in WoW by doing pretty much any other content. LFR specifically puts players into a group environment with tanks, healers, and DPS. These are group-based roles, and as a group activity we should expect some teamwork to successfully complete them.

Do you yell at a kid in in the basketball court shooting hoops saying "Get out noob, you're not a REAL basketball player!"? Ever consider that some kids just find it fun to shoot hoops instead?

I wish I understood why you people always try to make this some kind of elitist thing.

[Tiwack]

Because they're showboating smug addicts with no patience for newcomers in the game. In general these types assume everyone knows the same as they do and anyone who don't or knows less than them is not worthy of their time. They're hypocrites to boot as they themselves are glued to anyone doing the opposite and proving them wrong while being nice to them. Qualities they look up to in order to exploit instead of adopt themselves. They grow attached to each other and become depressed, only to end up wondering what they did wrong initially. Like getting serious about a game of all things as if their lives depended on it.

[parasight]

There's no reason to be anti-LFR. Stop being insecure.

I push Beguiling keys every day. There's no upgrades for me in heroic EP. Haven't even set foot in EP yet. I'm thinking about trying LFR one of these weeks so that I can get the experience and see the story once. It sure as hell isn't for the gear.

[Loeko]

I don't like LFR because it is a symbol of a disease that has been growing in WoW for years. It started with the dailies and normal/hero modes in BC, spread like the plague and now entirely contaminated the game with M+, Island expeditions, WQ and so on. That disease is: repetitive content, an absolute immersion killer. Imagine your D&D GM telling you "Good job guys, you did a great job in this dungeon. Let's start our next adventure! Same dungeon in a different difficulty". You can't, right? Well, Blizzard decided to do that, and not just a bit, they did it for every single piece of end game content there is in the game, to the point where unique content is rarely developed anymore. It probably started without any bad intention from Blizzard but it quickly grew out of control and here we are. A game with over 90% of its content being anti-immersive, anti-progression, anti RPG, and of all those repetitive things, LFR is probably the dumbest one with zero challenge, zero communication, zero investment, zero learning, but hey, you get to see the story and repeat it in normal after that. Then in heroic, then in Mythic. Yay

[Schattenlied]

Just IMO, but I feel any system (this includes LFD) that takes all social interaction and throws it out the window, and basically encourages people to treat eachother like NPCs, has absolutely no place in an MMO.

[Tiwack]

I wish I understood why you people always try to make this some kind of elitist thing.

It's because they want elitism to be associated with acting like jerks or assholes. Basic social and diplomatic skills to perform teamwork is unfortunately becoming a rare thing online. People don't know how to put themselves out there without taking offense over the smallest things like being informed of alternatives to their own impressions and worldviews. They like being at war with themselves, to them there's no middle-ground and everyone is either with them or against them.

[Daffan]

Personally, because LFR is a gateway to let Blizzard add catchup mechanics. The real evil.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Molten Core could be a LFR raid. It's about as easy as LFR.

[Tiwack]

Just IMO, but I feel any system (this includes LFD) that takes all social interaction and throws it out the window, and basically encourages people to treat eachother like NPCs, has absolutely no place in an MMO.

Instead of ask what others can do to improve the experience maybe consider what you can do. It's no different from any other pug. Auto-matchmaking is what you make it into just like everything else in an mmo. If you're unwilling to give it along with its users a chance then you've no right to complain about it.

[durenas]

From a progression standpoint, there's absolutely no reason whatsoever to step foot into LFR - you can get as good or better gear just by doing dailies. The only reason anybody does LFR is likely because it's a way for them to see content they otherwise wouldn't see likely because they're too busy to be in an active raiding guild or don't care to invest that much time into the game. So what exactly is the problem with allowing "casuals" to see this content when they're not even being rewarded for it? Why is LFR such a major talking point for classic fanboys and the like? How does it affect your gameplay at all? I personally don't use LFR and forget it exists most of the time so I struggle to understand why so many people have such an issue with it when the only thing people get from it is trash gear (hardly the "free epixx" people frame it as).

I am against LFR because it is currently unnecessary(you can get better gear from prismatic manapearls), and it is filled with toxic or lazy people.

[Tiwack]

Personally, because LFR is a gateway to let Blizzard add catchup mechanics. The real evil.

Where's the benefit in making it difficult to find suitable players to group with in an mmo for the content you want to seek out? The gateway to real evil is think you've got everything figured out. In an ever changing game with regular updates catchup mechanics are inevitable and not a new thing with LFR or any expansion since vanilla.

[tmamass]

Hi, started during Vanilla played tbc/wrath some of cata end of wod/legion/bfa here.

LFR is bad because its much easier than the other modes and most of the time does not represent a challenge to over come making current content trival reduces the feeling you get, imagine if getting wins in fortnight was easy.. nobody would train to be the best.
Improving yourself and your character is a big part of why this game is great.. it takes many wipes to overcome hard bosses and doing so feels so good, going into lfr to farm gear when only half of the raid is really required to beat the encounter makes gearing and progression a joke and makes more people resistant to try the next up which rewards much less of an upgrade for much more work.

#1 you clearly never played a boss like jaina/queen azshara or lfr cos
#2 this person is a prime example of people not able to except that not every person has fun the same way he has.

The "what if we don't have enough time to raid" comes up sometimes, well what do you do about eating sleeping and watching tv series? i mean at a certain point entertainment that is a video game and its raiding scene shouldn't have to bend to your time management skills.. you as an adult or learning to be one should be able to handle that on your own.

look at the kid with no RL/Family/Job

I hope this helps no doubt people will be angry because i don't like LFR and i think it should be reduced to a storymode where you are the only player amoung npcs and it should reward no gear, just for the "to see the story" excuse gets wiped out.

these people like him we dont need in our MMO cause he is the kind of player who gets angry about average joe getting loot

- - - Updated - - -

The first time I tried LFR I believe I summed it up to my friends in a few words, a cesspool. If I was a developer and I created any content that was that painful to experience, I'd purge it as soon as I could from existence. Leave the raids to people who want to spend the time to condition and be serious about that kind of content. I'd personally have entry level as the Heroic difficulty and implement similar to Ulduar hard modes (example, Mimiron Big Red Button) which would equate to a Mythic difficulty. All raids would be flex, 10-25.

another person angry about average joe getting loot....who clearly doesnt understand that without lfr the 0.1% that raid would have no raids anymore....

PS: The whole see content excuse is bullshit for classic. You can see it all on live right now solo anytime you want.

if you look back at vanilla and see how damn small the number of people was that steped ever into naxx you know that it is NOT bullshit...
its about content being designed and not only be seen by 0.1% of the playerbase but by everyone and his mom.