"No changes/QOL" = in denial.

[Relapses]

I'm not particularly for or against changes but comparing WoW Classic to OSRS (or RSC or whatever the fuck) is incredibly fucking braindead. They're two entirely different MMOs which appeal to two entirely different audiences. Apples and oranges. Game design by democracy is really, really fucking stupid.

[MoanaLisa]

Classic is not good game design. You're going to like it the wasy they have it because blizzard knows you better than you know yourself.

No, I think they were pretty clear at first that leaving it as it was in 2005 would be a mistake. The answer was a resounding "NO!" and so that's what they put together. This project, maybe more than anything Blizzard has ever done, is purely a product of user desire.

[LionSinMaikeru]

= Acting as if no one ever wanted changes back in 2004/05. Acting as if it were acceptable for Blizzard to leave hybrid classes incredibly weak compared to pures/semi-pures.

Oh people definitely wanted QoL changes back in 2005. But we see, from the way the game has progressed and how much the quality suffered, exactly how wrong those people were. Now that isn't to say some weren't needed. But Blizzard has two settings: nerf into the ground or buff to the heavens. They don't seem to know how to do something in the middle.

No, hybrid classes being weaker in their current state is *not* good game design - not in any reasonable way.

How are hybrid classes weaker?

Hybrid classes can do anything they want until raiding. I have stepped into a dungeon as a Druid not spec'd in Resto and healed just fine. I've tanked and healed as a Ret Paladin. And even when raiding hits, hybrids are usually excellent healers or tanks. Can they do as much DPS as non-hybrids? In most cases no they can't. But that is a GOOD thing because if a hybrid could do EVERYTHING perfectly, what is the point in bringing a non-hybrid?

[ssjgohan4life]

Not knowing how to play a hybrid class isn't a fault of the class or it's design, it's your insistent that you have to be the best at everything you do and top the meters (which aren't native to the game in the first place).

The role of the hybrid classes are to be exactly that; doing more than one thing at once. You in a DPS role? Fine, it won't be as awesome as the single focus classes you're with, but they also can't do any spot healing or hold a stray couple of mobs that get lose and start eating the healer's face that the tank can't pick up.

It wasn't until the morons at Blizzard decided that they wanted to make the game sound like it had tons of classes and thus reclassified specs as separate classes that things went downhill for them. Now, today, the "hybrid classes" are all the power players in the game, in that they can do all of their roles just as well if not better than the "pure" classes. And THAT, my friend, is what's truly bullshit.

Translation: Stop worrying about fucking asinine damage meters and learn to play your class the way it's meant to be played. You don't want to be able to do a lot of things well but just one thing great? Then PLAY A CLASS THAT DOES IT and leave the hybrids to the players who not only get how they're intended to be played, but enjoy it as well.

Entitled fucks, I tell you...

Um no, hybrids were programmed to be weaker then their counterparts, it had nothing to do with the player skill and skill IS NOT a factor in classic/vanilla, you hit 2 maybe 3 buttons, check the logs. Now if hybrids could even do as well as the other classes then there obviously wouldn't be a issue about what guilds would take to raids as all would be viable.

[bmjclark]

It's not my fault you play with shitty human beings, and it certainly isn't the game's.

Enjoy finding no pugs or getting carried by your friends i guess? Like i don't know what you want here. Maybe you can get in groups but you are actively bringing them down by playing such a shitty spec. Sorry if that hurts you

[mehow2g]

I don't recall people wanting QoL Changes in vanilla, at least not at a noticeable level, actvision merger happened and soon after the TBC trailer came out.

Activision want QoL changes to make the game more casual and more acceptable because at the time they wanted to cash in while time's were good, they didn't expect WoW to live more than a few years which is the business model actvision has for their own games.

These changes caused a lot of people to quit, I mean ALOT of people, WoW was still in hype phase so it didn't suffer at all.

Anyway, what's the point of the need of hybrid classes? If you want to tank roll a warrior, if you want to Meele dps? Roll rogue and so on, hybrid classes work on classic if you have the correct gear which is how it should be.

Tbc started the cluster Fk where every class can be any class which is the incorrect way to go, however I really enjoyed how my mage played in Tbc it was a more enjoyable experience than classic.

Activision blizzard seemed to think that adding more spells in every expansion was somehow a form of content or progression, it just made it a mess.

[Eapoe]

Can’t some people just take it on themselves and make a raid of nothing but Paladin/Shaman(s), Spriests, and Druids? Then people can truly discuss whether hybrids are viable or not and go from there.

[Minikin]

It's a slippery slope. Everyone sees this differently. You could say hybrid, someone else says flying, another says heirlooms, one more says lfg tool and on and on it goes.

[TigTone]

I don't recall people wanting QoL Changes in vanilla, at least not at a noticeable level, actvision merger happened and soon after the TBC trailer came out.

Activision want QoL changes to make the game more casual and more acceptable because at the time they wanted to cash in while time's were good, they didn't expect WoW to live more than a few years which is the business model actvision has for their own games.

These changes caused a lot of people to quit, I mean ALOT of people, WoW was still in hype phase so it didn't suffer at all.

Anyway, what's the point of the need of hybrid classes? If you want to tank roll a warrior, if you want to Meele dps? Roll rogue and so on, hybrid classes work on classic if you have the correct gear which is how it should be.

Tbc started the cluster Fk where every class can be any class which is the incorrect way to go, however I really enjoyed how my mage played in Tbc it was a more enjoyable experience than classic.

Activision blizzard seemed to think that adding more spells in every expansion was somehow a form of content or progression, it just made it a mess.

I guess one argument for better hybrid damage at least for paladins is that lore wise Ret paladins were a strong melee fighter. In vanilla they are a joke of a melee fighter.

[korijenkins]

Want the vanilla experience replicated as much as possible in Classic? Accept calls for QoL changes.

Uhh, what? That would literally be the opposite of the vanilla experience, as the vanilla experience DID NOT HAVE THOSE THINGS.

[Adamas102]

Just accept that people didn't want a good, balanced game. They wanted a vanilla WoW rerelease. Those are two very different things.

[Dormie]

It's not that any changes are automatically a bad thing, it's how do you know who to trust to make changes? Only changes currently allowed IMO are things that fix straight up bugs.

[Zugzuggies]

That's naive. I'm sorry that it is but it is.

There may well come a time when entertaining some serious changes to Classic can be considered but it's not now and it's not anytime soon. I think at minimum it's a year away.

We just going to ignore the needless insults and jabs from the post two above this response? Lol

Unless the 'Entitled fucks' bit isn't considered a bit trollish.

[Coldfire989]

Right or wrong they are NOT going to change how classes work in Vanilla.

[Mosotti]

Fuck RSC. How the fuck would it be classic if you change it?

[Aggrophobic]

= Acting as if no one ever wanted changes back in 2004/05. Acting as if it were acceptable for Blizzard to leave hybrid classes incredibly weak compared to pures/semi-pures.

No, hybrid classes being weaker in their current state is *not* good game design - not in any reasonable way. They waited an entire Xpac to bring them up to a reasonable standard. That sucks. As long as a change is done "in the spirit of Vanilla" (to burrow a phrase from the Catholic Church) then it shouldn't be controversial. And yeah, I acknowledge that Blizzard aren't Jagex in terms of their skills at communicating with the needs/wants of their player-base. I understand if someone is worried about any potential QOL changes.

RSC is one of the most successful MMO's of all time, and it's a reboot of past game version. They have still made changes, "in the spirit of 2007". This utopia nonsense over no-change has got to stop, because trust me when I say this: Classic will not maintain its current level of popularity if it doesn't.

Want the vanilla experience replicated as much as possible in Classic? Accept calls for QoL changes.

(At any rate, what do you even want? To keep playing classic as it is right now for years? Lol)

Nah. Retail has changes made in the spirit of vanilla as well. Go play that if you want balance.

[aceperson]

= Acting as if no one ever wanted changes back in 2004/05. Acting as if it were acceptable for Blizzard to leave hybrid classes incredibly weak compared to pures/semi-pures.

No, hybrid classes being weaker in their current state is *not* good game design - not in any reasonable way. They waited an entire Xpac to bring them up to a reasonable standard. That sucks. As long as a change is done "in the spirit of Vanilla" (to burrow a phrase from the Catholic Church) then it shouldn't be controversial. And yeah, I acknowledge that Blizzard aren't Jagex in terms of their skills at communicating with the needs/wants of their player-base. I understand if someone is worried about any potential QOL changes.

RSC is one of the most successful MMO's of all time, and it's a reboot of past game version. They have still made changes, "in the spirit of 2007". This utopia nonsense over no-change has got to stop, because trust me when I say this: Classic will not maintain its current level of popularity if it doesn't.

Want the vanilla experience replicated as much as possible in Classic? Accept calls for QoL changes.

(At any rate, what do you even want? To keep playing classic as it is right now for years? Lol)

so i'm in denial that i want to experience vanilla wow like it mostly was because i never got to play vanilla. gasp, i guess you could say i thought i did, but i don't!

- - - Updated - - -

i used to think no changes would be the way to go, that the game itself would foster community at least a little bit like back then. but the attitude in classic is a lot more BFA than it is vanilla.

So now i'm like, this dev team has demonstrated that they know what they are doing, so go ahead and make changes focused on improving the community aspects of the game.

stuff like server blacklists and such weren't made over a couple weeks. it could take months and maybe even a year to get close to a true classic community. also, tons of retail babies are playing right now so that mentality is also present for the time being.

[LDancer]

= Acting as if no one ever wanted changes back in 2004/05. Acting as if it were acceptable for Blizzard to leave hybrid classes incredibly weak compared to pures/semi-pures.

No, hybrid classes being weaker in their current state is *not* good game design - not in any reasonable way. They waited an entire Xpac to bring them up to a reasonable standard. That sucks. As long as a change is done "in the spirit of Vanilla" (to burrow a phrase from the Catholic Church) then it shouldn't be controversial. And yeah, I acknowledge that Blizzard aren't Jagex in terms of their skills at communicating with the needs/wants of their player-base. I understand if someone is worried about any potential QOL changes.

RSC is one of the most successful MMO's of all time, and it's a reboot of past game version. They have still made changes, "in the spirit of 2007". This utopia nonsense over no-change has got to stop, because trust me when I say this: Classic will not maintain its current level of popularity if it doesn't.

Want the vanilla experience replicated as much as possible in Classic? Accept calls for QoL changes.

(At any rate, what do you even want? To keep playing classic as it is right now for years? Lol)

I spent the last year listening to people in raids and groups bitch about how they can’t wait for classic... how they’re sick of not getting loot and that classic will be awesome.... that they hate what the game has become and want classic... how timegated retail is and they want classic...

And now, the whinging is “oh but I want this or I want that” to be included. Well sucks to be you... enjoy the classic experience with crazy queue times, unbalanced classes with useless talents and toolkits... classes completely not wanted because of bad design...

You got what you wanted so live with it.

[kail]

What your asking for is effectively tBC.

[Hctaz]

Um no, hybrids were programmed to be weaker then their counterparts, it had nothing to do with the player skill and skill IS NOT a factor in classic/vanilla, you hit 2 maybe 3 buttons, check the logs. Now if hybrids could even do as well as the other classes then there obviously wouldn't be a issue about what guilds would take to raids as all would be viable.

I think they could possibly fix the problem with hybrids if they fully embrace some kind of fourth role.

I don't know if you raided in Ulduar or Siege of Orgrimmar, but both of those raids had boss fights where a small section of your raid would go alone to complete some task in order to make the boss fight easier/do-able in the first place. Imagine sending your ret pallies and balance druids to run the Ulduar gauntlet with a couple of pure DPS or more CC style. Imagine Subtlety rogue being good in a raid environment because having the ability to prep another vanish for an extra sap or additional Cheap Shot is valued based on this utility role and not for pure dmg.

Would be interesting. I think that is honestly the biggest problem with the hybrids in the game. They do really well in solo and smaller dungeon content with a lot of trash, but bosses usually don't rely on these same mechanics.

- - - Updated - - -

I spent the last year listening to people in raids and groups bitch about how they can’t wait for classic... how they’re sick of not getting loot and that classic will be awesome.... that they hate what the game has become and want classic... how timegated retail is and they want classic...

And now, the whinging is “oh but I want this or I want that” to be included. Well sucks to be you... enjoy the classic experience with crazy queue times, unbalanced classes with useless talents and toolkits... classes completely not wanted because of bad design...

You got what you wanted so live with it.

Seems like somebody is salty. A lot of the people who wanted Classic WoW wanted the Classic experience. That doesn't necessarily mean no changes.