Mythic+ mentality ruined classic dungeons

[Choprap]

Im making my own groups and there is a few reason why people want 46+ for atleast aoe groups, mages get rank5 AE at 46 which increases his dmg alot. Someone asked what is the clear time in ZG aoe grind? 8-15min (including running out and reset)

People have always wanted the best geared people for the content they do, back in vanilla alot people used armory to check gear, alot of people had to go to IF/OG for gear inspect, same things happend in TBC, which made making groups ALOT harder since you had to wait for people to get to you or armory thier name for gear inspection. Finally in Wotlk we had Gearscore which made our lifes 100x easier where we could easily see with Gearscore what type for gear they had without inspecting them.

What i find worse is the min/maxers going only with streamers setups when dungeon grinding, ok someone made priest and 4 mages ZF now all need to have that setup, or that you can ONLY do aoe grinds with a priest? i find it quite a wierd mentality.

My group were holy pala, warr, 3 mages we had 80k/h exp without any deaths 43-52 ZF meanwhile i heard from all different mages who did other farm groups which they compared to as Hell compared to my groups, 7 mages told me my group were the best group they ever joined in Cleartime/Exp/h, well i guess i broke the meta despite all the naysayers explaining how garbage holy paladins is and they absolutely got no place on earth in aoe grind groups

[insert random number]

Title would make sense if it said WotLK mentality ruined classic dungeons.

They've generally been an aoe speed fest since then.

During TBC in heroic dungeons it was the same thing. Although it might have been very different per server. The server I played on pugs had pretty outlandish requirements, especially the during the first tier. This has always been a part of wow and it's not that hard to avoid it, although that said it does come with some investment. Just find like minded people build/join a community and play with them. It's not any different now than it was 12 years ago.

Ok. It wasn't around when people levelled their first characters and everyone was still learning, but you already started running into elitist people while levelling during the first wave of alts. The group of people that ran dungeons was reasonably small, most folks leveled via questing. Dungeon runners generally had more trouble getting groups going so people made concessions. As soon as that pool gets bigger people start making demands to filter.

[Erwarth]

It's not "mythic +" mentality, it's the people mentality and it ruined nothing, people like you were too lazy to make their groups on retail and now you are also too lazy to make your own group on classic and blame it on something else.

It's not the game, it's a YOU problem.

[insert random number]

It's not "mythic +" mentality, it's the people mentality and it ruined nothing, people like you were too lazy to make their groups on retail and now you are also too lazy to make your own group on classic and blame it on something else.

It's not the game, it's a YOU problem.

I disagree, there is a prevalent mentality in M+ pugs. Even if you put in the effort of making your own group and you don't stick to the mentality you're trying to avoid in the first place you generally won't end up with a functional group.

[Erwarth]

I disagree, there is a prevalent mentality in M+ pugs. Even if you put in the effort of making your own group and you don't stick to the mentality you're trying to avoid in the first place you generally won't end up with a functional group.

If you want to do a high key, yes, you need to have a certain mentality. But anyone can just do a group for a low key and slowly rise their rio score to apply in high end group.

In Classic ANYONE can just form a functionnal group just fine, they just don't want to put effort in it.

[insert random number]

If you want to do a high key, yes, you need to have a certain mentality. But anyone can just do a group for a low key and slowly rise their rio score to apply in high end group.

In Classic ANYONE can just form a functionnal group just fine, they just don't want to put effort in it.

Yeah, for classic that's definitely true. In retail Rio score isn't going to do much for you pug-wise if you're playing a class/spec that's outside of the meta.

[Jimmyw]

Make your own group!!!!!!! Thats what I have done and still do.

[Piesor]

Some people just want a "safe" run. Classic dungeons are quite a time investment, especially if you want to do all quests, e.g. Uldaman.
Imo players that are way to low and looking for groups are totally annoying. Those players are just completely worthless since they don't hit any mob later on and often facepull mobs from miles away....

[crusadernero]

If all of us just start to create groups that demands other classes than the current "meta", maybe we can change something?


Generally, if I want to do a dungeon in classic, I enter the lfg channel and start creating a grp. I dont care what class they are as long as they fill the role needed. Especially when leveling. Does not matter if you are a druid, warr or pala tank. In fact, in many cases thats not even needed in classic dungeons when leveling lol.

I have healed in every dungeon so far in classic(38 paladin) and its more or less a complete snoozefest, almost like retail. I end up as a dps/Healer most of the runs and often times the tank dont even bother going shield/1hand wep.

But sure - people who want to be 100% effective will do whats needed. Theres always one way thats quicker than the other, but that does not mean its more enjoyable then doing it any other way.

[Dalkill]

So, basically this is another of those threads...

"Now that I have seen with my own eyes that Classic is BS, I blame it on Retail".

[Gratlim]

Everywhere you look its people asking for mage aoe or cleave comp or ridiculous level requirements, like 46+ for things like ZF.

The result of years worth creating a playerbase with a "400ilvl minimum for a mythic +1 zerg derp" mentality.

And yes, i know i can make my own groups. Who cares. Its about retail mentality seeping into classic, which sucks balls.

Thoughts?

Thoughts? Agreed.

That is why i avoid dungeons with random plebs that whisp my feral "hEy wAnnA tAnk ZF??? sPeLlclEave yo. DoN't sUck bRo!!" like the plague.
I refuse mage groups in general unless i know them / are guildmates. But it is easy to know what games they played before Classic went live indeed (either PServer or BFA mythic+ crowd or maybe even Fortnite, who knows?).

[kamuimac]

The number one thing M+ changed is people's attitudes towards mistakes. In M+ a mistake means you fail the entire run.

When you're playing classic, running a dungeon for the first time? A mistake should be something you chuckle at and fix. But everyone loses their mind every time there is one because they're used to M+.

stop with those lies.

the same thing happened long before anyone even thought about mythic +

those people were always there since vanilla.

its problem with PEOPLE wanting smooth wipeless runs not with mythic +

[Firedemon]

The mentality was already there and further enforced by Blizzard buckling and shift away from hard CC to soft CC gameplay in retail before mythic+ was a thing.

Stop being delusional. Aside from heroics in TBC when people were wearing quest gear and sometimes very briefly at the start of Cata, cc was not required.
You may have been doing some cc afterwards but it was by no means required or extremely harder without it.

[Zantera]

Like others have said this was a shift I think that mostly happened in Wotlk so to blame retail is a bit weird, then again this is a phenomenon that's been around for over a decade. It's a sheep mentality where people on twitch see a streamer do something thats "fotm" and they get the idea that its the only way to do it. We all knew this was gonna be change in classic from vanilla because even if the game is the same (i know there's some changes) people aren't the same.

[facefist]

Not retail mentality, but modern gaming mentality. Gaming as a whole has changed from casual approach to minmaxing. It's not something that just retail wow has, it's something that every single big game has. Try playing any game and you'll notice it's all about performing.

[SkagenRora]

"My xp per hour is low". Thats retail mentality.

Imagine if you are going to run a marathon.. and you have a choice between that they cut off your foot, shoot you in the knee cap or Neither of those and just let you run the marathon normally. Which one do you choose? Even if you have to hop on one leg or crawl, You will reach the finish line eventually, Just not as fast as the person without damaged legs.

My point is.. You choose the thing that makes the run go faster/smoother when given options.

[Tekkommo]

"My xp per hour is low". Thats retail mentality.

Was common in vanilla. So technically you are correct, as that was retail at the time.

I remember that addon that gives you a bar at the top and bottom, that gave xp per hour. It was very common to hear brag about it and compete over it.

[insert random number]

Like others have said this was a shift I think that mostly happened in Wotlk so to blame retail is a bit weird, then again this is a phenomenon that's been around for over a decade. It's a sheep mentality where people on twitch see a streamer do something thats "fotm" and they get the idea that its the only way to do it. We all knew this was gonna be change in classic from vanilla because even if the game is the same (i know there's some changes) people aren't the same.

There was never a shift. The tools for measuring character progression changed. In vanilla you had to go and inspect someone and that was all you had. Over the years that's what changed. The M+ mentality has always been there in part of the playerbase. It's just more cultivated now, not that I think that's a good thing.

[erifwodahs]

I do not think the community at start was as toxic as today. Just because it was quite normal to be inexperienced. Nowadays everyone has to be a pro. Or he finds no players to play together with.

Which happened only because of blizzards design focus on competition in a MMORPG. We literally have the same community as like MOBAs in a MMORPG nowadays, because blizzard tried to force WoW into an esport scheme with arena competitions and mythic dungeons tournaments. Blizzard created a relentless meritocracy, starting in the burning crusade with arena.

In classic, there literally was no component, which allowed tournaments and competitions. Yet, people play classic nowadays as if performance is everything.

The community is very sick, if it only wants op class combos and overgeared players for normal content.

Sure, same as employers now wanting experienced people to work for them and just not taking "newbs". Current players are a lot different, because we live in a different world. We have clear goals and we usually stick around with people with a like mind sets, similar skills. If I want to get to point B from point A, why would I do that in very sub optimal way? Unless I have to carry my friends, I will always go for optimal way, if I don't feel like having side fun. Why most of the people are playing most viable classes then? If you can compare against someone, you will be in an "esport". Least people for Onyx kill? Was that 3 or 4, can't remember. Done in Vanilla. Why? because people wanted to see how far it can go. Speed runs were a thing back then. Being world first in something was a thing back then. Fastest level to 60 was a thing back then. You can't play a game and just not compare against something

[Zantera]

There was never a shift. The tools for measuring character progression changed. In vanilla you had to go and inspect someone and that was all you had. Over the years that's what changed. The M+ mentality has always been there in part of the playerbase. It's just more cultivated now, not that I think that's a good thing.

I think you're right but I also think it was lesser in the early days mostly because of lack of knowledge. I feel like with every xpac there's been the rising mentality that "i know this stuff so you must know it too" and in the very early days of the game a lot of people were winging it more. The tools have changed and things like gearscore in wotlk was a big step towards this but I also feel people are more aware today and there's a lot more knowledge about the game out there in the ether.