The Worgen - Goblin monk (8.2.5)

[Oakshana]

So it's first chemical and then magical, and by no disciplinary requirement of their own.

For the most part. The discipline comes in maintaining "human" form. Combat agitates & creates stress, which is why they revert back to Worgen form.

[Carolus Rex]

Is it actually cited lore that Orcs have a genetic bloodlust?

Yeah. That has always been the case. It's in Rise of the Horde and even got specifically mentioned in Durotan's Lords of War episode. I mean where do you think it is coming from?

[Syegfryed]

You can't honestly be this daft.
You are seriously demanding information as to why a LIGHTFORGED DRAENEI does not wield void magic or why a VOID ELF doesn't wield holy magic.

They would literally just blow up if they touch anything from the opposite force.

[Citation needed]

in Legion we literally infused our weapons with both light and shadow in their core and they didn't blow off, this seems again projection and assumption by players, cause its nowehere confirmed.

the only instance is the alleria and turylaion interaction, and that is totally different since she ate a dark naaru and he is a lighforged paladin, there is lots of variables and especially power lv

Is it actually cited lore that Orcs have a genetic bloodlust?

yes, Garrosh, Drannosh, Durotar and so on, thats why maghar racials are stupid.

[Halyon]

And that stops them from using hand to hand combat why?

Being a monk isn't just about punching people, it's very related to a certain mindset and set of principles beyond that, traits giblins are on the polar opposite of.

[Kyphael]

Yet we got orc, undead, dwarf and voidelf monks.

Orcs are polarizing, Undead take a lot of discipline to bear the burden of Undeath, dwarves are like humans and orcs, polarizing, and Void Elves also require high mental aptitude to keep from giving in to the whispers and murdering their friends and family.

[Syegfryed]

Orcs are polarizing, Undead take a lot of discipline to bear the burden of Undeath, dwarves are like humans and orcs, polarizing, and Void Elves also require high mental aptitude to keep from giving in to the whispers and murdering their friends and family.

And goblins and worgens somehow are not, for "reasons", hum.

[Kyphael]

Yeah. That has always been the case. It's in Rise of the Horde and even got specifically mentioned in Durotan's Lords of War episode. I mean where do you think it is coming from?

I suppose then the Orcs that are able to suppress that bloodlust can qualify for Monks? With that logic, Worgen should be able to, but in a comical way, Goblins shouldn't be able to control their greed.

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And goblins and worgens somehow are not, for "reasons", hum.

Strong-willed orcs that suppress their bloodlust are disciplined enough. I suppose Worgen should be able too as well with that logic.

But a Goblin giving up greed and wealth to be a monk? That's no longer a goblin.

[Syegfryed]

Strong-willed orcs that suppress their bloodlust are disciplined enough. I suppose Worgen should be able too as well with that logic.

But a Goblin giving up greed and wealth to be a monk? That's no longer a goblin.

Again going for the stereotypes, if we stay with then half of things should never happen.

in BfA we see plenty of good goblins that are no greed or assholes, Gazlowe and his goblins being a great example

[tromage2]

Being a monk isn't just about punching people, it's very related to a certain mindset and set of principles beyond that, traits giblins are on the polar opposite of.

Dont see the polar opposite at all.
Goblins are disciplined, they are focused and smart.
So what do they actually dont have to be a monk? A calm mind? Well like i said other races also have issues on that front.

[Vladier]

[Citation needed]

In "A Thousand Years of War" its is said that not only do Alleria and Turalyon hurt each other by merely touching due to their opposing cosmic alignment, Alleria literally loses the ability to call upon the Light (something she was learning so she could one day join the Lightforged) after she gives herself to the Void fully in order to save Turalyon and Lothraxion.

As for the topic, the only real reason why worgen and goblins can't be monks is due to their starting zones. Gilneas would have no wandering pandaren due to its isolationism, and while Kezan doesn't have the same limitations (at least as far as we know - the only non-goblins there are slave trolls toiling in the mines and pirates pillaging the party), it would be kind of strange to have a pandaren monk trainer be allowed on the same boat where Gallywix took only the richest with him.

I mean, it's already stretching the disbelief that there is a pandaren traveller ready to teach some draenei that just crashed their spaceship the martial arts. If we ever get a proper rework for worgen and gobling starting experience, I don't see a reason why we shouldn't get worgen and goblin monks.

[Kyphael]

Again going for the stereotypes, if we stay with then half of things should never happen.

in BfA we see plenty of good goblins that are no greed or assholes, Gazlowe and his goblins being a great example

The thing is, Goblins are known as a joke race. That's reflected by their racial leader. Name one great goblin character important to WoW history. You'll be hard pressed to find it. Greed is a goblin staple and defining trait that makes them endearing to begin with. They're the scum bags of WoW, the morally corrupt and proud of it.

[Schattenlied]

I have a hard time thinking a race rooted in greed and another that suffers from violent tendencies can master the strict disciplinary prerequisites to be a Monk.

Monk training would actually be an ideal thing for a person of one of those races who wants to get those impulses under control...

Strict discipline isn't a prerequisite to start the training, it's part of the training, and that training would be something someone might actively seek out if they have control issues that they seek to remedy, therefore it would make sense that some Goblins and Worgen would choose the path of the monk.

Also, Orcs suffer from "violent tendencies" too, it didn't disqualify them

[Syegfryed]

In "A Thousand Years of War" its is said that not only do Alleria and Turalyon hurt each other by merely touching due to their opposing cosmic alignment, Alleria literally loses the ability to call upon the Light (something she was learning so she could one day join the Lightforged) after she gives herself to the Void fully in order to save Turalyon and Lothraxion.

thats hardly a confirmation of other things, its just a instance where 2 different things happens with 2 different individuals, she lose because her faith, and she was dabbling with the void, she being unable to touch him im pretty sure is after she absorb the dark naaru

there is tons of instances of us mixing up energies, and light and void, the weapons infused in the spaceship are proof, a lighforged can wield and manipulate the void, and a the void elf can manipulate the light, the only problem would potentially be a paladin void elf since a paladin is infused with the light

they could potentially feel pain like undeads, but nowhere is said they can't

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The thing is, Goblins are known as a joke race.

same as gnomes

That's reflected by their racial leader. Name one great goblin character important to WoW history. You'll be hard pressed to find it. Greed is a goblin staple and defining trait that makes them endearing to begin with. They're the scum bags of WoW, the morally corrupt and proud of it.

Again stereotypes that hardly define the whole race, i already said we have plenty of examples of the contrary in bfa, if you want to stay with the stereotype you can, but its simple not like that and the player si free to ply what he like.

[Thage]

No. Goblin monks don't make any sense with how they're a very selfish, profit-obsessed race. But then again, they somehow got to be shamans.

Forsaken, void elves, Mag'har, orc, Nightborne, and Dark Irons can all be monks. That's the orcs (who are easily among the most violent, aggressive races on Azeroth and Draenor), Dark Iron dwarves (who can be plenty brutal themselves), void elves (many of whom teeter on the brink of insanity, some of whom seem to be quite actively mad), Forsaken (the most nihilistic race on Azeroth bar none), Nightborne (at least on an even keel with goblins in terms of selfishness and lacking empathy, if the fact that children were caged and put on display for entertainment in Suramar is any indication), and Mag'har (see orcs but even more blunt and aggressive) have all found something of value in monk teachings.

You're really gonna tell me all those races can find value in it, but goblins can't figure out a way to open up a martial arts dojo and turn a profit on it?

As for worgen, much like the more unhinged races like void elves and Forsaken, they'd find plenty of value in the monks' teachings. I'd wager plenty of worgen want to find some manner of inner peace after having it ripped away from them.

[tromage2]

The thing is, Goblins are known as a joke race. That's reflected by their racial leader. Name one great goblin character important to WoW history. You'll be hard pressed to find it. Greed is a goblin staple and defining trait that makes them endearing to begin with. They're the scum bags of WoW, the morally corrupt and proud of it.

Actually the Gob Squad is not really shown as greedy.
They are a elite group of tinkers risking their lifes behind enemy lines to benefit the Horde.

Where does the greed factor fit into this?

[Sluvs]

I could see goblins greed translated into greed for knowledge other than for money, there is always a way to make it work IMO. As for the worgens, I cannot see a race more fitting for the monk class. Finding harmony, fighting impulses, seeking balance, that is all that Worgen are about, accepting and living with themselves, both good and bad.

Yeah, not everyone would be able to do it, but being a monk is the perfect remedy for being a worgen. Master yourself, mind and body.

And to those saying that there is a lore reason for it, do you really think it's just a coincidence that both cataclysm races cant be monks? This is/was probably due to some limitation, either due to the starting zone or some other complicated reason.

But lore reason? I don't really think so.

[Thage]

Name one great goblin character important to WoW history.

Weird litmus to measure by, but okay.

Gazlowe, Noggenfogger, and Revilgaz, off the top of my head. Those three turned the Steamwheedle Cartel into a global powerhouse, big enough that the Alliance and Horde both go out of their way to curry favor with the Steamwheedles (though Gazlowe has a bias toward the Horde, it's not so great that it outweighs his love of Alliance gold). Ratchet, Gadgetzan, and Booty Bay left their mark on history by being the most immediately-recognizable neutral trading hubs, a neutrality both factions have regularly respected even at the height of faction hostilities (no small feat).

[Carolus Rex]

I suppose then the Orcs that are able to suppress that bloodlust can qualify for Monks? With that logic, Worgen should be able to, but in a comical way, Goblins shouldn't be able to control their greed.

Why would being greedy not allow you to be a monk? I mean a World of Warcraft monk. A World of Warcraft monk goes around punching things with his fists, throws beer kegs and all sorts of silly stuff. Don't see why being greedy would stand in conflict with that. Besides, even if it does, what if a goblin just isn't greedy? Are they all born greedy? What does that even mean? What if I roieplay a goblin that isn't greedy? What about Goblin shamans or priests? Does their greed get in the way there?

I don't think Goblin's greed is anything Blizzard has ever considered when preventing them from being Monks, and it is simply based on the fact that their starting zones are isolated from the rest of the world.

[Thage]

And to those saying that there is a lore reason for it, do you really think it's just a coincidence that both cataclysm races cant be monks? This is/was probably due to some limitation, either due to the starting zone or some other complicated reason.

But lore reason? I don't really think so.

I'm almost 100% sure it's because the Worgen and Goblin starting zones were/are time-locked to a specific expansion, whereas the blood elf and draenei starting zones are 'evergreen'-enough that you can get wiggle room in on their timeline, especially with the Hero of the Sin'dorei questline being updated to just 'talk to whoever's Warchief this week.' That being said, a pandaren finding his way to Gilneas and Kezan is far from the most unlikely places for one to wash ashore and start spreading their teachings.

[Kyphael]

Weird litmus to measure by, but okay.

Gazlowe, Noggenfogger, and Revilgaz, off the top of my head. Those three turned the Steamwheedle Cartel into a global powerhouse, big enough that the Alliance and Horde both go out of their way to curry favor with the Steamwheedles (though Gazlowe has a bias toward the Horde, it's not so great that it outweighs his love of Alliance gold). Ratchet, Gadgetzan, and Booty Bay left their mark on history by being the most immediately-recognizable neutral trading hubs, a neutrality both factions have regularly respected even at the height of faction hostilities (no small feat).

Yeah but... they've never saved the world, or done anything for anyone other than themselves. They've done important things yes, but notice it all revolves around profit.