I never got to max level in Vanilla, but when I did in BC I clearly remember running weekly Kara and Gruuls lair runs all the way through the end of the Xpac for gearing up Alts or just plain having fun, now when a new tier releases no one touches the old raids because the huge gaps in ilvl between tiers.
Nighthold to tomb to argus was also progression.
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Because no one wants to, people don't turn up to alt runs and people would happily have not turned up to alt runs back then. As I was a one char guy I never turned up to alt raids ever, raiding is a pain in the ass. Not gonna make it worse by dragging indergesrd chars through as well.
Well i was saying it always, even before blizzard gave us info they will make classic that raids in past were extermly easy but players were bad. We had no skill.
Same for pvp. When Hydra was doing SW it was something EPIC. Now 1600 players does it
I know I am wasting my time....but it's Friday and I am stuck at work.... so here we go.
As someone who raided in a top 3 guild on my server throughout vanilla, the raids were hard at the time due to the level of knowledge, but they were never hard, particularly not by today's standards. Anyone arguing this never really raided in vanilla.
However, your arguement that someone else cleared it fairly easily, therefor it is easy, is absurd. By the same logic, I could say Mythic Raids in Retail are easy, because people cleared those in just a couple weeks after they were released. Just because you watched someone do it on Twitch doesn't mean you are somehow an expert on Classic Raids.
The arguement had less to do with the impact of the talents / talent trees, and more to do with being able to meaningfully progess your character. Each level, you get a talent. Every two levels, you get new or improved spells. Each level gives you additional power. It's about the RPG element not about how great the talent trees are.
Also, as far as being locked in to those talents. That was the point. The goal, was for those talent choices to define your character. If you went with a hybrid build, you would be mostly stuck with that. If you went protection, you couldn't suddenly change gear and suddenly DPS at the same level as Arms or Fury. You WERE a Protection Warrior.
Even in Vanilla, there were people that raced to get to 60. Yep, the same happened in classic. Yet, most people did not. How do I know that? Because when I am in a main city there are very few people that are 50-60. Because when I am leveling (currently in the 30s), even with phasing, the zones are still full of people and I am waiting on spawns. How would that be possible if everyone had raced to 60? I shouldn't be struggling to kill panthers in STV if everyone is already 60.
Also, how do you just grind mobs if you aren't doing quests? How do you get gear to do that? It's damn sure not from drops. Grinding dungeons? Sure some people have been doing that and they did the same in classic. To each their own.
The VAST majority of people, are slowing leveling. I know a ton of people playing classic and NOT ONE is close to 60. Not a single one of them. Are streamers? Sure, but they do this for a living. Your arguement here seems to just be based on streamers and youtubers.
Everyone is more sociable in classic from my experience. Have grouped with people dozens of times for quests. In several cases we stuck together for additional legs of the quest, chatted while waiting on spawns or trying to figure out who still needed what. Have stopped to help people kill things that were not something I was working on, and have had many people do the same.
It is a FAR more social experience.
How exactly did you come to this realization? Obviously not from personal experience. So you watched someone play the game and that is what you are basing it on? Probably those same streamers that are in with the people that rushed to 60? Yeah those people are there own crowd and do not represent the majority of players still leveling and interacting with eachother.
I have done several dungeons, and have had no issues.... unless you are talking about those people start are farming the same instance over and over to level. If so, yes they are looking for mages to AOE crap down. They are obviously in the Retail mindset and anyone looking to do the same should understand. As for everyone else, the only requirement has been to make sure you are the right level. And yes, mage sheep / AOE is nice to have but every class brings something to the table. As soon as you get into Strath / Scholo, everyone will want pallies as well because of their undead damage. Every class brings something to the table and I have yet to see any NORMAL group that really gave a crap what class you were.
Which quest has you kill an enemy 10 levels higher than you and isn't a red quest? Yes, class quests are a challenge and usually requires you to get some assistance. Again, it encourages you to be social. People will help you. I have helped others and they have helped me with quests as well. If you are in a guild, you can normally get some help.
Class quests like the warlock pet quests, give your class a lot of flavor. However since you obviously are all about retail, let me give you this. Legion class quests, were far better. Overall, they were fantastic and I still have it on my to do list to complete them for some of my other classes. DK ones were great. I REALLY REALLY wish they had kept going with that in BFA.
I have seen arguements that were Pro classic on both sides of this. People arguing it was hardcore, others saying it was super casual. Both are true.
The speed of the game is a lot easier for some people to handle. A lot of the people started playing WoW in there 30s - 40s, and those people are now in their 50s. Your reaction speed slows with age and the current game is basically a reaction time, memory, and vision test. Can you see the puddle under all the layers of AoE crap? Do you remember what the purple circle means? How fast can you react to procs, casts that need to be interupted, things that need dispelled, moving out of something, etc? Classic, is a lot slower paced. Hell I am in my mid 30s and I still have fealt my reaction speed slow over the years and while I can still push out top Healing or DPS in Retail, I have to focus more to do it. Classic is relaxing, and is more strategic. While tanking I am watching threat, marking targets, planning pulls. When leveling I am watching spawns around me, pats, watching my HP and if I start seeing to many misses, start planning how I will get myself out of the situation.
However, while it is far more relaxing, it is also pretty unforgiving. If I pull too many things, I am dead (or close to it having to use all of my utility to run away). If I don't plan a pull right, I wipe the group. If DPS attack the wrong thing, and then my taunt misses, they may be dead.
As someone else said, I don't really understand why those of you who dislike classic want to talk about it so much, and try to convince others that it's a bad game. I strongly dislike Red Dead Redemption 2. Do you know how much time I spend each week telling people? None. Do you know how much time I spend thinking about Red Dead Redemption 2 each week? None. Why? Because I don't like it and I don't waste my time worrying about it, or the fact that other people enjoy it. If so, good for them.
I am seeing very little competition for mob kills now. Nowhere near what it was in the first week. I also have not seen a login queue at any time of day since the first week. Even the Capital cities are a lot less populated. Wait until 8.2.5 drops. Then there will be a big dropoff. I, and almost all in my guild in retail, greatly prefer BfA with all it's QoL improvements and are just waiting for the new content.
Desktop ------------------------------- Laptop- Asus ROG Zephyrus G14
AMD Ryzen 5 5600X CPU ---------------AMD Ryzen 9 6900HS with Radeon 680M graphics
AMD RX 6600XT GPU -------------------AMD Radeon RX 6800S discrete graphics
16 GB DDR4-3200 RAM ----------------16 GB DDR5-4800 RAM
1 TB WD Black SN770 NVMe SSD ------1 TB WD Black SN850 NVMe SSD
Was about to write about it but you did it better. The patch classic servers started is easy mode compared to the patch we had during the intial MC raids. Even dungeons were a pain in the first game patches, specially the high level ones. I am also willing to bet Blackwing Lair won't be released in classic with the major lag problem it had in the first weeks during vanilla. Razorgore was almost impossible due to the awful lag at his room.
English is not my main language so grammar errors might happen.
The game is SO dead right now, that there is 30 people in Redridge Mountains atm.
It's 6:00 a saturday morning
I think you need to learn what an opinion is. You state things as if they are facts for everyone. They aren't. Nice try though.
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Seems like you are another person who doesn't know that your opinion is literally just your opinion and doesn't apply to anyone else. Good job on taking your own little echo chamber of like 5 people and trying to apply it to everyone else though.
Desktop ------------------------------- Laptop- Asus ROG Zephyrus G14
AMD Ryzen 5 5600X CPU ---------------AMD Ryzen 9 6900HS with Radeon 680M graphics
AMD RX 6600XT GPU -------------------AMD Radeon RX 6800S discrete graphics
16 GB DDR4-3200 RAM ----------------16 GB DDR5-4800 RAM
1 TB WD Black SN770 NVMe SSD ------1 TB WD Black SN850 NVMe SSD