Ok, so, Class Designs

[Jonnusthegreat]

Get rid of Warrior. It seems stupid that some dude can be like 'hur dur look at my axe' when people are literally creating fire from nothing.

[Shakana]

That was not the deal in Wrath and Cata....... And certainly wasn't the deal in Mists and even Warlords. We actually had a passive speed buff in Warlords.

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I have a macro that says "I have the mobility of a table, nailed to the floor, that has a steel plate over the floor and then has cement poured on top of it."

Only macro i have for DK that says something is "GET OVER HERE!" when i use my death grip, cause it's the only thing besides speed that can make my dk closer to the mobs or players LOOL

[F Rm]

I mean adding ideas from that thread to survival. Even tho i feel like it's a mix between BM and survival (which i don't mind too)

It does have a few talent options that are about using a pet. But nothing baseline.
I designed it this way as I think the very core fantasy of the Hunter class is about using a ranged weapon while also having a pet by your side.

I know that not everybody want to rely on a pet, thus why anything involving your pet, is entirely optional. As opposed to BM.

Technically, you could even give the spec a Lone Wolf-option so that you wouldn't have to use a pet at all.
The only thing it would cause is that a few talent options wouldn't be useful to you.

But having the option for additional pet utility and pet-based damage, is very useful for a ranged hunter spec.
Especially in open world content and while leveling.

Honestly, I think that any hunter spec apart from MM should have optional ways to further makes use of the pet.
While at the same time, I think that only BM should be the spec that has baseline abilities and effects that focus on the pet.

[shade3891]

Oh and I forgot something. I'd add a new way to cast named "Charging". Instead of having to fully fill a casting bar, you could use your spell by using it again while casting and it would deal / heal / bonus you according to the time spent to cast. Would just work like Azshara's trinket.

- This charging should be baseline, no more wasted cast-time because you have to move.
Yes the spell will be less powerful but thats better then nothing.
It should auto release then you hit a full castbar.

- Spells when released or hitting a full cast bar it should fly towards your current target instead of the target you had targeted at the start of the cast.

- Remove specs, give access to every skill.

- Some skills might have to be mutually exclusive. (talent system?)

- Hunters want ammo? Doubt that, was more a hassle then fun. if you run out of ammo your fckd in the current game itteration.
But if you got access to every skill including survival skills you can switch melee and be fine.

- Talents should determine your flavor of gameplay

- Talents should not be a choice between ST or AoE, but ST vs ST or AoE vs AoE.


Goodluck Bliz

[F Rm]

- This charging should be baseline, no more wasted cast-time because you have to move.
Yes the spell will be less powerful but thats better then nothing.
It should auto release then you hit a full castbar.

- Spells when released or hitting a full cast bar it should fly towards your current target instead of the target you had targeted at the start of the cast.

- Remove specs, give access to every skill.

- Some skills might have to be mutually exclusive. (talent system?)

- Hunters want ammo? Doubt that, was more a hassle then fun. if you run out of ammo your fckd in the current game itteration.
But if you got access to every skill including survival skills you can switch melee and be fine.

- Talents should determine your flavor of gameplay

- Talents should not be a choice between ST or AoE, but ST vs ST or AoE vs AoE.


Goodluck Bliz

Heh yeah. GL

I do agree on much of that btw.

Maybe apart from the "remove specs" thing. I mean...if the pruning we've undergone for a while has gone too far. This would certainly be the opposite^^

[Nerovar]

I'd like to have WoD WWs and Wotlk DKs pls.

[Shakana]

- Talents should determine your flavor of gameplay

I love that idea, i talked on other thread about class fantasy being more about having acess to every spell and choose what we want and not use a spec with talents that stay OP and others are there only to make nice good looking icons.

[schwank05]

Curiously, when was the last time you played Druid? Current Resto Druid heals primarily through spreading Rejuvs.

Last time I played was WOD, so if they learned their mistakes then good.

[Swnem]

Actually, no. You are wrong.

We had Unholy Presence originally that gave us a speed boost. And then we had additional speed through Death's Advance.
DK's don't need a gap closer because we do have Death Grip. But we did and continue to need extra base speed for PvE reasons.

You still have death's advance, and you got wraith walk as well now. It does not matter though, DK is supposed to be the slower melee. It makes no sense for them to be faster than everyone else while having grip. See, running to the boss is not as important as game balance. Suck it up and stop complaining. If you want to go fast roll DH or Monk.

[msdos]

Wraith Walk baseline for DKs, give BDK chains back.

Blood needs talents you actually want to take, they're all basically useless, none of them interact with Death Strike, I think one interacts with Heart Strike (they're both passive), basically your two most used abilities just have 1 passive for them and Heartbreaker is useless in a raid. Some of the others I don't think anyone has ever specced before. Damage was nerfed into the ground long before Voracious could be useful.
Unholy needs talents that can change how you go about dealing damage. Ramping up for every single build is really silly. I should be able to spec into something that has more burst at the expense of consistency.

In general, tanks need a draw to them. They're painful to play. Tanks need to have a utility kit that actually makes them fun to play. Playing like a DPS that dumps a resource to heal or mitigate feels really bad, especially on DK who has 2 resources.
My utility example would be something like Death and Decay slowing everything, that's a good start, but there needs to be more of this.
I should be able to chains stuff, AOE slow stuff, stun something, interrupt, dispel magic buffs, etc, I should have an over whelming utility kit, since I can't deal damage or move fast or PVP for that matter.

[Shakana]

Wraith Walk baseline for DKs, give BDK chains back.

Blood needs talents you actually want to take, they're all basically useless, none of them interact with Death Strike, I think one interacts with Heart Strike (they're both passive), basically your two most used abilities just have 1 passive for them and Heartbreaker is useless in a raid. Some of the others I don't think anyone has ever specced before. Damage was nerfed into the ground long before Voracious could be useful.
Unholy needs talents that can change how you go about dealing damage. Ramping up for every single build is really silly. I should be able to spec into something that has more burst at the expense of consistency.

In general, tanks need a draw to them. They're painful to play. Tanks need to have a utility kit that actually makes them fun to play. Playing like a DPS that dumps a resource to heal or mitigate feels really bad, especially on DK who has 2 resources.
My utility example would be something like Death and Decay slowing everything, that's a good start, but there needs to be more of this.
I should be able to chains stuff, AOE slow stuff, stun something, interrupt, dispel magic buffs, etc, I should have an over whelming utility kit, since I can't deal damage or move fast or PVP for that matter.

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...sed-to-be-slow

This thread i remember thinking "indeed", if it was because we are "dead", in that mindset then undead couldn't be able as a race to have fast paced classes such as monk too? I mean, there's really no valid reason to be slow. Frost Mages (in general and undeads) also have their slow and stun spells and they are not slow regardless, they have even blink/shimmer that is on a short cooldown and can be used more times than a dk with wraith walks etc.
Undeads are supposedly to be the ones that eat brains and walks slowly. Just like on movies lol They need to make dks faster and enjoyable.

Sometimes i even joke that the undead monks give a kick and lose their leg

[Clash the DK]

You still have death's advance, and you got wraith walk as well now. It does not matter though, DK is supposed to be the slower melee. It makes no sense for them to be faster than everyone else while having grip. See, running to the boss is not as important as game balance. Suck it up and stop complaining. If you want to go fast roll DH or Monk.

It feels like you are just typing words and throwing in the "suck it up" phrase to sound edgy.

Total game balance incorporates all things. And there is a difference between how fast you move opposed to how often you can use a gap closer.

The only reason we have Wraith Walk as a talent option is because there were certain boss mechanics in Legion that DKs could not survive because they were so slow. And we were that slow because they removed our additional base movement speed during the prunes. Personally, I would prefer an additional 20% movement speed all the time than having Wraith Walk. I think that's more fitting for the DK and still allows us to manage PvE mechanics without being a problem in PvP.

Regarding the advice of rolling a DH or Monk, many DKs have done just that. Rerolled. DK has dropped to it's lowest representation level since it's inception. Only Monk has less representation in BfA. The DKs lack of movement speed is one of the reasons why that is happening. Myself, I went with Warrior. Fury is the most fun it's ever been.

[Highelf]

Get rid of Holy Power for Paladins!

Quivers for Hunters please!

Monks have been nerfed so much since their release(especially WW).

[Shakana]

When I got into the MoP beta and noticed what they did to the talent system, I decided to take a break. Did not come back until like a month prior to the WoD pre-patch.

Just as me. I Played pve Firelands, as soon as LFR came out and Dragon Soul, i decided to level up a rogue, and was THE BEST THING i ever did. I enter on PVP full-on, and rogue was the best back then in PVP, when i saw my talents being all changed in MoP i lost all ability to have interest in the game, so i gave a huge break, a break from game that lasted until the start of Legion. That's when i came back to play my expecting demon hunter class that i never thought it would exist. So i didn't only play MoP as i didn't play WoD and know how good or bad the class designs were in these 2 expansions. And ofc that's why also i miss tree talents. I used to loved them with my heart.

[Rivex]

Give hunters the ability to ride their tamed pets along with combat whilst riding.

[Naiattavain]

i miss the good class balance that wod had for draenor subtlety. had a really fun time pvpin in wod with subtlety on rogue. that was all very fun and for no reason got taken away. really like to see the rogue class-subtlety spec has its fun giving back i mean wins. there is just no real evidence that supports why i should maintain a subscription to the game anymore with subtlety being nerfed so bad. please give rogue a reason to be glad to play subtlety again. currant design is just too bad to maintain a subscription to the game for.

[Caperfin]

I would have preferred for hunters to not use mana as a resource, its very odd.

[Toxuvox]

There's a fair amount I'd change for Hunters and Shaman both.

For a start, I'd make one of their specs a Tank spec, Survival for Hunters, and Enhancement for Shaman. For Survival, it'd be a face tanking kind of arrangement where Beastial Aspects are used for damage mitigation and the like, while equipping a 2H Axe or Polearm. For Enhancement Shaman, we'd be going down an Earth Warden type of self imbument, but with a 1H and Shield setup. Adding more tanking choice is a good thing IMO.

Staying with Hunters, I'd make BM use a sort of Legion Zoo build as a baseline, with 2 permanent companions (with actually fixed AI and pathing) and a bursty Dire Beast on short CD/charge basis. I hate that BM is about pet damage, but without the visual representation of that. Lets have a master of the wilds feel about it. With MM, I'd go down that Ranger route...solitary, cunning, sniper like in execution, with abilities that match that feel. I've always felt that Guns are where MM should asthetically be, with bows being the purvey of the BM side.

On the Shaman side, I'd beef up Elemental mobility, with LB back on the cast-when-moving roster, and play around with the Shocks, having them be impact spells across the board rather than a combination of DoTs and Impacts. For Resto, I'd keep it pretty much as is.

Aside from those mechanical changes, the visual side leaves a lot to be desired. I've hated Hunter tier sets since the Icecrown tier, with maybe only the SoO being halfway decent since then. As has been previously stated, I hate that equipping a bow doesn't include a visual quiver outside of the MM legion artifact. The visual aesthetic just feels half assed. Not to mention that pet AI is STILL buggy as hell after all this time.

[Shakana]

*updated wishlist*

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I would have preferred for hunters to not use mana as a resource, its very odd.

Hunter on retail use focus. They replaced mana for focus.

[Tyze]

Balance Druid: Make dots a part of something. Right now we apply two dots that only does damage.. In WoD and before we had procs, in legion it empowered our starfall. Now nothing, boring.