Make WoW 'easy" again

[rohoz]

They aren't, though. You are either a top grinder or you go home.

Legion was the beginning of the downward spiral with that fudging neverending powergrind and insane forging that became the new standard. I was raiding mythic in WoD because I had time to spare after getting the gear (because that was also less of a grind back then), but now i get to do LFR once to experience the story because I can't keep up with the grind enough to raid heroic or mythic.

That is, before classic was released. I'm not sure I even want to play retail any more unless they move away from power and forging.

if you're like, not world first, it doesn't matter how hard you grind

grinding is a noob trap. if your guild won't be at a position to be fighting a hard boss, you legit don't need artifact level 65. Legit don't
if you, as a casual guild, that's on let's say orgozoa/qc right now, you don't *need* to farm AP. I haven't played live in 3+ weeks and I'm at 64. With extremely casual play you would've been 65. we're about 1/2 to 60% through this patch. You have time.

[crusadernero]

go do the 2 quests from northern wetlands with the dwarfs and tell me it's not hard after.

well that depends. What level you are, what kind of gear you have.

And its actually a nice quest to use as an example that in classic grouping up with people was(is) a benefit. Even when doing easy quests. Cause it went by quicker, you got more xp and in the end you maybe got a friend or two.

Here also lies an important part of why it connects people more in classic - Everything goes by slower so you can just power through it unless you are a full party. You are there with other people fighting your way in a much slower fashion than in retail. You spend more time with others and you might end up being friends, or atleast add them to do future dungeons/quests.

There are several WQs/quests and mobs that require you to group up in retail, but because all of that is automated and people join in/out all the time, it feels disconnected. There are many mobs right now in Nazjatar most people cant just outright solo, they gotta grp up. But its done by clicking a button, randoms join, kill mob, everyone leaves without a word.

If we had that automated feature in classic, it would feel just as disconnected.

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Because you have low or short memory, that is your problem. WoW was always like that. Also, read again, because I have no where said that PuGs are extremely coordinated and committed before. They were shit as always.

Agreed. With pugs in wow, you never knew what you would get. Its always been like that. If you only logged on, searched for pugs to join but never actually made contacts/friends from previously good pugs, it has ALWAYS been a gamble to join pugs.

From my experience there are two things that works:

Join pug runs early on from reset(wed-saturday).
Try to identify good players, remember good raid leaders. Talk with them, maybe add some of them to friends list. So when next reset comes, you have people that one can rely on.

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So is this another "we need to dumb down" the hardest raid difficulty in the game even though there are already 3 easy modes?

yeah I dont really know what the person that created the thread really wants. We already have 4 difficulties for raids, 3 for dungeons. Content beyond that is rather easy.

Maybe he just want the cool loot, mounts & titles from mythic but refuses that it requires actual skill?

[Trbn]

Was really bizarre to witness someone dismantle everything they say before they said it. Hopefully the irony and stupidity of leading that post with that opening statement isn't lost on you.

tried to read what I was answering to? if yes you'd be able to add 1 to 1 and not waste your time on "dismantling" my post which was about showing some guy that he wrote bs

[Coldkil]

I'd just like wow to return more streamlined and less convoluted in content. I don't need 36725487329 systems, i liked when i had my daily things to do and then raid. Now i don't have enough time for everything.

[Sencha]

So you want your mistakes to have no consequences?

You just want to be carried in the end.

[mojusk]

classic LEVELING is way harder than retail.
retail pve CAN BE way harder than classic, on hard enough difficulty.
on classic you learn to play the game, while leveling. on retail you dont have to learn to play at all, unless you wanna do hard content.

is retail mythic raiding too hard? depends who you ask i guess.
personally i dont like bosses, that becomes alot more doable, if you have a certain setup.
it is a big problem, that blizz has changed philosophy to "bring the class, not the play", meanwhile they make it harder and harder to maintain alts.
they cant make those changes, without changing boss designs, to fit it.

[Wyrt]

You wouldn't run your mouth so much had you been given original wow with first patch/no amendments and entirely new content never explored. You been grinding this shit for 15 years, know every pixel of the instance and here you are telling us its "easy" in comparison to God knows what you think its valid to compare it to.

Thats why I find classic to be such an abomination it made completely clueless children think it was a fucking walk in the park when it was anything but. None of you loud mouths could handle the original wow you had to get a simplified watered down version and then some with all the guides to tell you how to spec and what not.

Seriously stop talking about wow man you don't know the first thing about it. And I mean the real wow not the idiot-proof versions they serve you to grab your dad's cash every month.

Ah, man, because it's SO hard dealing with a whole 2 mechanics with a 1 button rotation.

Vanilla was never hard, people just didn't have experience back then.

[d00mh4cker]

How can anyone argue that Classic is hard or harder then retail?

It's easier in every single way. Being more time consuming and tedious doesn't make it hard.

People think they are so hardcore playing the "real wow". You are just being nostalgic, grown up men watching Asmongolds stream crafting Sulfuron hammer giggling and saying "OMG that is so EPIC MAN" and "I WAS HERE".

I get it, i played beta and through vanilla, it was a great time, but all this is build on 100% nostalgic, it's not wrong to like vanilla but don't talk about the game being hardcore and "the real wow", it's an old broken game with broken mehcanics and it's super easy, it was made to be easy, it was the casual version of a MMO back then.


I see this nostalgic everywhere in gaming and movie industry where everything is remade or remastered. It's me and others now in their 30's who think everything was better back in the day and wants to re-live it. Please just realize you grew up. I'm so tired of remastered games.

Play classic wow, it's ok, but dont try to make it into something it is not.

[Frozenbro]

Came here for the "classic is hard" guys despite the OP talking about the raiding aspect of retail, and i wasnt dissapointed, these classic fanboys always amuse me.

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Raiding != the whole game. Do we really have to keep pointing this out every time?

Cause OP was talking about the raiding aspect of retail but you guys have serious reading and mental issues, so if you dont like classic raiding to be compared to retail raiding in terms of difficulty, then suck it up and leave the thread.

[Segus1992]

Stating that retail is easy makes my blood boil when you know for a fact mythic isn't, stating BfA raids are easy is so wrong it hurts. That generalization and comparison with classic is just absurd. They have nothing to compare. If you're talking in a LFR and normal that's the only comparison you can do that "retail is easy", there's more content over the "easy" part in retail you know.

Did you read the post? Maybe you should try to comprehend it before you start frothing at the mouth.

HC raid setting is objectively harder. You can't get in there in one shot everything if you are not suitably geared from previous tiers. In fact, it takes some nice time for even good guilds to do so. Not that they are trying, but regular mythic raiding guild can't clear HC on day one. It usually takes us 4 raids on HC release week to get AotC achiev. Argus raid took us normal raiding week I think. (we use one day to clear normal usually) and two days to do hc.

Read above.

Classic is not hardstuck on medium dude, not even close. If LFR counts as Easy mode in retail then that means Classic is hardstuck on Easy.

You've clearly played classic.

Classic is hardstuck on tedious, not medium. Dungeon trash packs in BfA have more mechanics than most Classic raid bosses.

Yes because number of mechanics equals difficulty. Kind of like how number of skills equal depth, I guess?
What is it with you people and being so angry about classic? My post is neutral - normal baseline content is much harder in classic than live, but you have the option of making it harder on live. That's hardly even arguable unless you just want to argue about everything.

[Shakana]

Did you read the post? Maybe you should try to comprehend it before you start frothing at the mouth.

the blood boil part wasn't for you so there's no need to be defensive about. It was me burned out from other answer. You came along with the conversation and I just kind of spilled what I thought. My bad if it sounded otherwise

[StovnZJ]

Raiding Mythic in Retail is harder then anything that exist in wow.
Everything else in Retail is easy mode.

Classic raiding isn't hard until AQ40.
Everything else in Classic is harder.

Retail has too many quality of life elements which make the game "easy to be casual".
Retail is also missing the rpg element of your character getting stronger over time. You're showered with easy loot and pvp stat scaling makes PVP a complete joke.

The concept of "I farmed all this good gear for pvp to have a huge leg up on everyone else and become unkillable" is a complete joke. This should never be a thing even though it is fun. Bad design.

[Levogames]

So you want your mistakes to have no consequences?

You just want to be carried in the end.

I want to carry for free and not depending on failers mistakes to kill more than 4 bosses. Remember how unpuggable are most of hc bosses without overgeared carriers. I don't need to go full 440 to do good dps and perfect mechs but you can't say this for the vastly majority of players.

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hmm..IF the OP wants an easier game, maybe he/she should play minecraft or something that isn't hard. He says he does mythics. I know players that complain they are hard...some say they are easy. If mythics are too hard, then maybe they shouldnt do them and stick to easier stuff.

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I heard that FF 14 is getting another difficulty mode added soon, called ultima mode.
I can totally foresee blizz adding a *legendary mode* level.

You can act like a skilled twitch kid kappalol bagachips and I'm in pece with that but try to go on a pug without full curved 435-440 people and kill EP without wipes. The odds are low, and that didn't happen before Legion. WoW is easy for skilled people but the game is tedious and hard in terms of playing in group.

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So is this another "we need to dumb down" the hardest raid difficulty in the game even though there are already 3 easy modes?

Never talked about the hardest difficulty. Maybe the poor understanding is what makes people think this is a thread about retail vs classic.

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Came here for the "classic is hard" guys despite the OP talking about the raiding aspect of retail, and i wasnt dissapointed, these classic fanboys always amuse me.

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Cause OP was talking about the raiding aspect of retail but you guys have serious reading and mental issues, so if you dont like classic raiding to be compared to retail raiding in terms of difficulty, then suck it up and leave the thread.

Higher odds on guessing those ppl will be misunderstanding the topic than clearing HC with pugs

[Sencha]

I want to carry for free and not depending on failers mistakes to kill more than 4 bosses. Remember how unpuggable are most of hc bosses without overgeared carriers. I don't need to go full 440 to do good dps and perfect mechs but you can't say this for the vastly majority of players.

So you want raids to be easier because it's too hard for pugs? lol... just lol

Who would have thought raid encounters are harder with a non-organized, barely talking group of random people put together than a fully organized guild group...

So don't pug and do it in guild dude.

[Raelbo]

So you want raids to be easier because it's too hard for pugs? lol... just lol

That wasn't the point he was making at all.

The point he is making is that a lot of boss encounters these days are overly sensitive to small mistakes by an individual wiping the entire raid. And I would have to agree that it's a fair criticism.

Individual mistakes should still be just as deadly to the individual, but the impact on the raid group should be less dire. If one player messes up, then it should still be possible for the group to compensate through superior performances.

Who would have thought raid encounters are harder with a non-organized, barely talking group of random people put together than a fully organized guild group...

Harder, of course. Impossible though? And it's not like we're talking about a group full of LFR heroes trying to do mythic. We're talking about a typical pug consisting of mostly Heroic/Mythic raiders trying to do Heroic.

The problem he is talking about is when you land up with one or two people in the group who aren't really up for the content, make a mistake, which then wipes the entire group, in spite of the fact that 80% of the group is performing adequately, or even better.

So don't pug and do it in guild dude.

He already said that he does....

Besides, the solution to making content that should be puggable (like Normal/Heroic) puggable isn't to not pug....

[horbindr]

Behemoth is a good example because the only new mechanic for mythic is ignored by most well geared mythic guilds. The targeted person just dies, and the raid carries on. OP is asking for more of that.

On the other hand, if you're progressing on Ashvane and a single DPS dies, it is basically a wipe because you'll miss the DPS check. That's bad design because if you're a raider who isn't messing up, your only hope for improvement is to gquit or get that person gkicked. Neither of those are mechanics.

thats not bad design its the very nature of progress. no matter your skill, everybody from the worst to the best eventually reaches their personal skill ceiling at which point every mistake means a wipe. it's kinda like pvp rating in that regard, where you will eventually plateau at 50/50 win/loss ratio. (now sure your guild influences this too, but this only really becomes a problem if you are one of the best or one of the worst people in your guild, in which case yes: finding a new guild makes most people happier)

now wow handles this problem by simply offering a spectrum of about 8 difficulties (top end, cutting edge, cutting edge after nerfs, partial through mythic guilds, ahead of the curve guilds, etc). nowadays with targeted nerfs so most people aren't on brick walls.

and people respond to this in three ways: some people accept their place on the difficulty spectrum, some people work to become better to get higher, and some people are unhappy/jealous/w/e and want the difficulty spectrum to be brought to their skill ceiling.

i could understand if the OP was asking for the difficulty to be lowered so more than 1000-1500 guilds reach cutting edge by the tiers end, i'm actually quite for that. but if you make the % of players who complete everything to high, it starts to backfire. and im sure blizz has people whos sole job it is to crunch the numbers to find the sweet spots for what that should be.

[Sencha]

The problem he is talking about is when you land up with one or two people in the group who aren't really up for the content, make a mistake, which then wipes the entire group, in spite of the fact that 80% of the group is performing adequately, or even better.

Thank god you can't beat a boss if 10-20% of the group does not perform adequately.

And for those 10-20% the solution is in the above post : play at easier difficulty or improve. But stop asking Blizzard to ease the fight because those people don't want to adapt.

[Kithelle]

WoW isn't hard, in Classic or Retail...except for like mythic level stuff, and that doesn't need to be nerfed.

[bullseyed]

thats not bad design its the very nature of progress. no matter your skill, everybody from the worst to the best eventually reaches their personal skill ceiling at which point every mistake means a wipe. it's kinda like pvp rating in that regard, where you will eventually plateau at 50/50 win/loss ratio. (now sure your guild influences this too, but this only really becomes a problem if you are one of the best or one of the worst people in your guild, in which case yes: finding a new guild makes most people happier)

This barely coherent rambling doesn't address anything in my post.

[horbindr]

This barely coherent rambling doesn't address anything in my post.

ironic since your reply to me was about progress when mine and the one i replied to where about farm.