Ultra massive spoilers [confirmed ingame]

[Fewane]

I think Sylvanas made the same mistake a lot of people do - conflating communities of strength and communities of vulnerability, and not really understanding to which they (or their peers) actually belong. The Forsaken enjoin the Horde in its place as a community of vulnerability, and Sylvanas called them out on that chord - inadvertently and unexpectedly compromising the very thing that held her Forsaken to her (as the Forsaken relationship to Sylvanas was also that of a community of vulnerability). The Horde was able to supplant that loyalty itself over time, and Sylvanas didn't understand that - probably could never understand it due to her pathology. The Horde represents an alternative to the Forsaken - a place for them to stand apart from Sylvanas, and she didn't realize that until she burned her bridges around her in spectacular fashion.

Agreed. I *wish* the arc had been written differently, but I feel that this might be a good way for the Forsaken to step away from under Sylvanas' shadow with their loyalty switched. And yeah, I think it's a believable and orgabic switch - the Forsaken have fought with the Horde in Arathi and Warsong Gulch, they have lived and campaigned with orcs and trolls throughout Azeroth and Draenor, they have helped blood elves in the Ghosrlands, they have followed Thrall, Garrosh, and Vol'jin, sharing the hardships and losses and victories with the Horde. I'd say it'd be impossible to do all that without some kinship and camraderie forming.

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tbh in this scenario, the cliche is what happened, he dying, she getting triggered then running away

everybody knew he was going to die, and when he challenge the plot armor queen it was just confirmed

The start of the cliche happened, yeah, with the spweches after she had practically won. What I was afraid was that he'd have gotten up, gone "hope never dies" and cleaved her to two...

[baskev]

Actually, it's Draenor. Which they blew up. So, yeah.

so........nothing to do with what i was responding to?

@Friendlyimmolation said...if you drown the city is without value ( meaning its not even a home right now).

My response was: how is azeroth < makes sense if you watch the video's and play the game. :P

[Heladys]

Guys guys guys.

There's still time for Calia and the Light to raise Saurfang as a Lightforged Undead.

[Zulkhan]

Looks like someone is counting blades of grass.

If only. I wish this was an actual alternate dimension.

[Arrashi]

If only. I wish this was an actual alternate dimension.

Alternate dimension where thrall and saurfang discover big supply of anti-depresants and beta-blockers during TBC ?

[Velerios]

All I know is that Sylvanas loyalists are selling anchorweed in singles at the AH. What more proof do you need that they are all evil?

This shows us how depraved Sylvanas Loyalists are. Ok, Burning Teldrassil can happen, destroying the planet they are living at also, but selling anchorweed in singles in the AH: ATROCIOUS!

[FurryRedVixen]

there was talk that the story could not advance in the way they want it to if the faction conflict stayed the same. as the events that have happened go well beyond just red and blue, its life and death. Existence and oblivion.

[SoundOfGuns]

Because she has the IQ of a toaster. If she'd gagged herself before the fight she would've taken over the world. This goes beyond Garrosh losing because everyone betrayed him. With him it wasn't on him. With Sylvanas she is inexplicably in the lead despite failing at every turn, is in the process of winning but then just sinks her chances and loses her army of deluded minions because some dickhead was talking about hope.

@Lei

We switched back over to the timeline where Lost Honor is canon and the Alliance have a troop shortage.

Garrosh also actually was capable and he was defeated by what is implied to be quite a herculean effort by Horde of the Alliance, losing lots of soldiers while Sylvanas... ...got her makeup in a tussle.

[Zandalariprelate]

How many times has the world and by extension the Horde been saved by/with the Alliance?

How do you think shit would have gone down with Garrosh if the Alliance dealt with him after the resistance was wiped out?

And what was/is Sylvanas's plan for the Horde? Oh yeah souls sacrificed to a death god..... I'm sure the Horde would have been ok with that.

The same times as the horde saved the world with cleaning raids canonically in Chronicles and both went against the big bad at the same time. Also if Saurfang had challenge early Sylvanas to a Mak'gora, all of this wouldn't happened. The only reason he didn't was because blizzard wanted to include more expensive decoration aka Alliance characters and players

[Syegfryed]

The same times as the horde saved the world with cleaning raids canonically in Chronicles and both went against the big bad at the same time. Also if Saurfang had challenge early Sylvanas to a Mak'gora, all of this wouldn't happened. The only reason he didn't was because blizzard wanted to include more expensive decoration aka Alliance characters and players

if he did in teldrassil, she would cheat and win anyway, and it could not cause the same shock and impact GoT have

Also, it didn't suit their plots;

[Friendlyimmolation]

if he did in teldrassil, she would cheat and win anyway, and it could not cause the same shock and impact GoT have

Also, it didn't suit their plots;

I mean she could have killed him just as easily with daggers as she could have magic.

[Syegfryed]

I mean she could have killed him just as easily with daggers as she could have magic.

yes, but apparently she want show off, just win is not enough.

[Magnagarde]

This also finally explains why she decided to torch Teldrassil. Blizzard set it up so we think that the night elf pissed her off, but torching it to the ground was her goal all along, to send the night elven souls to whoever she's trying to power up.

[Mehrunes]

Garrosh also actually was capable and he was defeated by what is implied to be quite a herculean effort by Horde of the Alliance, losing lots of soldiers while Sylvanas... ...got her makeup in a tussle.

I wouldn't go far with Garrosh's capability in war. He fucked around Ashenvale, the main territorial objective of his war plans for circa three years without achieving anything there but an eternal stalemate. Meanwhile Sylvanas steamrolled over it in an afternoon.

I mean she could have killed him just as easily with daggers as she could have magic.

Or her bow. Or her bare hands. Or her voice. Or just waiting for him to get a heart attack from saying "honor" too many times within a minute.

[KaPe]

Garrosh also actually was capable and he was defeated by what is implied to be quite a herculean effort by Horde of the Alliance, losing lots of soldiers while Sylvanas... ...got her makeup in a tussle.

Oh yeah? Well, Sylvanas was too powerful to be defeated by the Horde or the Alliance, so she had to defeat herself, after she effortlessly crushed the leader of rebels. It doesn't get any more epic than that.

[Friendlyimmolation]

yes, but apparently she want show off, just win is not enough.

She should have suplexed him then, or maybe beat him with a folding chair. Maybe an RKO

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This also finally explains why she decided to torch Teldrassil. Blizzard set it up so we think that the night elf pissed her off, but torching it to the ground was her goal all along, to send the night elven souls to whoever she's trying to power up.

inb4 Elune is the death God.

Pretty sure I'd fucking lose my mind I'd laugh so hard.

[Mehrunes]

inb4 Elune is the death God.

Pretty sure I'd fucking lose my mind I'd laugh so hard.

Yet another way for Blizzard give Night Elves one more kick while they are already down before the expansion is over.

[Doffen]

-The Mak'gora. Now, this is only partially the redeeming quality of the entire arc (or at least of Saurfang's) because it solved the issue of Saurfang being a moron who would rather form a rebellion and tear the Horde apart to deal with Sylvanas rather than putting himself on the line against her. With this, he indeed sacrificed himself alone to get Sylvanas out of the way. Problem is, it's not entirely clear how the Mak'gora served that purpose at all. For sure, Saurfang didn't beat her since he died, which was to be expected, which means Sylvanas won. So all good for her? No, because she fled and literally abandoned the fucking Horde, out of nowhere, for no apparent reason. It's because she said "the Horde is nothing" and one Forsaken heard her? What was Saurfang's plan, to provoke her and expect that she would definitely say something like that? In fact, the real big deal was when she calmly reinforced the concept by fucking screaming that to everyone, to the point that Saurfang's provocation looked trivial and it really looked like it was time to get the fuck out because the Horde served no purpose or whatever. But if the Horde served no further purpose for her grand evil plan, what usefulness had Saurfang's challenge? Why she willingly and wittingly decided to abandon the Horde right at that moment, despite winning a legitimate fight for leadership against Saurfang, only to then complain that "Saurfang's ill-considered challenge ended the war prematurely"? It's that a reference to the Mak'gora or the entire rebellious effort?

Maybe they had a rule to only use physical weapons and blizzard forgot to show that in the cinematic, so when she used killblast she lost because of cheating? Or blizzard forgot that using magic in a Mak'gora isn't cheating if there isn't any rules in that particular fight, so they thought it was actual cheating? Only blizz can tell.

[Hubbl3]

I just did the quest and I'm really surprised that after I beat Eitrigg into submission and dragged him to basically his execution he reacts to it in the post-war Ogrimmar. He forgives me, of course.

[Friendlyimmolation]

I just did the quest and I'm really surprised that after I beat Eitrigg into submission and dragged him to basically his execution he reacts to it in the post-war Ogrimmar. He forgives me, of course.

"Honor, honor honor."

"Honor? Honor honor."

Honor."

Orcs truly have been turned into a mysterious and deep race.