So Who Did Trump Sell Us Out To? The Intelligence Agency Whistle-blower Scandal.

[Skroe]

Seems the Whistleblower is a CIA officer

I've said it once, I've said it a dozen times. I will say it again now.

One of the most bizarre things about the ENTIRE Trump Presidency is that Trump nominated Pompeo to be CIA Director within days (November 18th 2016) of winning the election in 2016.

He nominated Mattis as SecDef on December 1st 2016.

He nominated Tillerson as Secretary of State on December 13th 2016.

He nominated Coats to be Director of National intelligence on January 5th 2017. the DNI is the boss of the CIA Director.

He chose Pompeo to be CIA director before perhaps any other job that required Senate approval. And before the biggest, more senior job.

This jumped out at me then, and I've never moved off of it, because the CIA would be the agency most-responsible to respond to Russia's attack on us in 2016. They are the ones with the human intelligence inside Russia. What better way to short circuit the response to Russia than to install a loyalist in charge of the agency? Would Pompeo betray America? Unlikely. But he would protect Trump, who is elevating a lowly Congressman to heights that Congressmen have rarely seen before - including now Secretary of State, which lets be clear, is a position historically well above Pomeo's pedigree.

The CIA has never trusted Trump. Since the earliest days in the Administration it leaked out that they were holding back what they were sending in intelligence briefings because they did not trust everybody in the West Wing and could not be certain it wasn't going to be leaked for political purposes or seen by Russia. Trump's performance with the Russian ambassador and foreign minister in 2017 furthered their fears.

The current CIA Director, Gina Haspel, is a life-long CIA intelligence officer and (as we know from her confirmation hearings) extremely popular and respected within the agency. But she's kept her profile low. Way lower than Pompeo did when he was CIA Director. Slight aside - she may be an ideal candidate for the leaker, which from the Whistleblower complaint is someone who is senior enough to have regular contact with senior White House officials, but is not actually "in the White House".

So the fact a CIA officer is the whistleblower is not that surprising. The question is, is he/she speaking for his/her self, or on behalf of a wider group in the agency who share the concerns. Because I would not be surprised if it is the latter given the pattern of behavior between Trump and intelligence agencies, particularly the CIA, since he started to run for President.

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If all we can get is a tepid progressive (with a Dem President/Rep Senate), versus a hard right conservative with Trump/McConnell, then I will take what can get at this point. Hell, renominate Garland. He should be able to get the votes despite McConnell.

No he won't. Democrats have 48 seats right now. Chances are (going from the previous posts I made), they'll have 47-48 seats in January 2021. They'll need 3-4 seats, and McConnell will VERY hard Whip his caucus against that.

He'll tolerate Susan Collins going against him on Obamacare repeal... something he didn't really care about and only used as a fundraising tool... but against endangering his court legacy? Not in a million years.

I don't think there exists a potential Supreme Court Justice acceptable to Democrats who can get three Republican votes when McConnell brings down the hammer on his caucus and makes clear that no crossing of the line will be tolerated.

[Felya]

Wouldn't it be fuckin' funny that, even after all this, Biden wasn't even the Dem nominee?

That sounds like a win to me... I don’t like Biden...

[Thepersona]

Wouldn't it be fuckin' funny that, even after all this, Biden wasn't even the Dem nominee?

I mean, i'd die laughing if Dotard Tang gets Impeached (and maybe removed from office) for getting dirt on a candidate that wouldnt be running against him.

[Shadowferal]

Ironic that the Mueller report was all about this very crime...and boom, Ukraine says hello.

[Blur4stuff]

I've been laughing about that a lot this week, the fact that Biden wasn't going to get the nomination anyways. Well, laughing and lamenting about all the damage they're causing to our country.

People joke about the next dem presidential term, but whoever that is is truly going to be spending all of their time cleaning up the messes caused by Trump and republicans.

[Shadowferal]

One of the ladies need to say it..."Need a woman to clean house."

[Breccia]

Ironic that the Mueller report was all about this very crime...and boom, Ukraine says hello.

Also, as several sites have pointed out, Trump seems to think Ukraine and Putin will make some kind of deal. I don't know what "deal" you make with a dictator that sends troops out of uniform to take a chunk of your country, and more importantly, I don't know what "deal" would be reached in which Putin surrenders that.

This, combined with other information Trump volunteered personally, actually suggests Trump is still trying to make Putin happy. It looks like he's trying to push for something that makes the annexation of Crimea legal. I mean, Trump did withhold aid approved of by Congress to fight Russia. And we all remember the sanctions timeline, including crying like a bitch. Oh sure, Ukraine was asked to do Trump a favor, but does Trump every pay people?

[Shalcker]

Also, as several sites have pointed out, Trump seems to think Ukraine and Putin will make some kind of deal. I don't know what "deal" you make with a dictator that sends troops out of uniform to take a chunk of your country, and more importantly, I don't know what "deal" would be reached in which Putin surrenders that.

It's the EU deal. The one EU have been pushing all those years.

"Steinmeiers formula"

Amnesty to all citizens of Donbass who taken part in hostilities, free recognized elections there, and their federalization/special status enshrined in law so that it can be re-incorporated into Ukraine.

The only reasonable way.

[DarkTZeratul]

So the fact a CIA officer is the whistleblower is not that surprising. The question is, is he/she speaking for his/her self, or on behalf of a wider group in the agency who share the concerns.

Reading the complaint, it seems to clearly indicate the latter.

[Orbitus]

Considering they VOTED HIM IN, we all should care what they think.

Because they were gullible and racist? They are still the same way now. They will still say everything is a witch hunt.

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Oh I meant it'd be funny in that Trump may have just sank his remaining political capitol trying to get dirt on someone he wouldn't even be running against.

And committed extortion to do so, therefore making it so that he should resign if he had any integrity? Yeah, he doesn't have any integrity, so we shouldn't expect that.

[Spectral]

Democrats need to retake the Senate. It's as simple as that. And that gets a lot harder because they lost 2 too many seats in 2018 and will be hard pressed to pick them up anytime soon.

Also, as I've heard a few recent Weeds guests pound home in what seems to be an expectation setting exercise for progressives, merely taking the Senate means that you need Joe Manchin on board to actually do anything, so the chances of genuinely progressive goals getting through in that scenario are basically nil. Win one more seat than that? Get ready to pitch ideas to Jon Tester. Another one? Maybe Mark Warner.

This is another reason that progressive ideas along the lines of "free" college aren't going anywhere.

[Felya]

Also, as I've heard a few recent Weeds guests pound home in what seems to be an expectation setting exercise for progressives, merely taking the Senate means that you need Joe Manchin on board to actually do anything, so the chances of genuinely progressive goals getting through in that scenario are basically nil. Win one more seat than that? Get ready to pitch ideas to Jon Tester. Another one? Maybe Mark Warner.

This is another reason that progressive ideas along the lines of "free" college aren't going anywhere.

Bernie already said during the debates, that he plans to use Trump’s tact. As in, the progressives are planing to use executive orders and national emergency declaration to push their agenda. Trump has given too much power to the executive branch and there is no way it’s going to get curbed before the next election. We will see where “free” college goes, when college debt is declared a national emergency.

[Draco-Onis]

Bernie already said during the debates, that he plans to use Trump’s tact. As in, the progressives are planing to use executive orders and national emergency declaration to push their agenda. Trump has given too much power to the executive branch and there is no way it’s going to get curbed before the next election. We will see where “free” college goes, when college debt is declared a national emergency.

Pretty much this Trump with the blessing of republicans have basically pushed executive power to the edge. You can now use national emergency, executive privilege, executive orders without any valid cause to do whatever you want. Congress has basically neutered itself under Trump.

[Breccia]

We will see where “free” college goes, when college debt is declared a national emergency.

And even if, say in 2022, the House and Senate move to restrain or block such abilities, that still counts as a win. "National Security Lol" is not a magic "I win" button for anything you want.

[Spectral]

Bernie already said during the debates, that he plans to use Trump’s tact. As in, the progressives are planing to use executive orders and national emergency declaration to push their agenda. Trump has given too much power to the executive branch and there is no way it’s going to get curbed before the next election. We will see where “free” college goes, when college debt is declared a national emergency.

Of course, that's plainly and obviously illegal and there's not really any room for debate on it. Personally I'm inclined to roll back the imperial presidency, but it seems that the main lesson the parties actually take away from each instance of it is that they just need to get their guy in so they can use all the cool new powers that the last guy discovered.

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Pretty much this Trump with the blessing of republicans have basically pushed executive power to the edge. You can now use national emergency, executive privilege, executive orders without any valid cause to do whatever you want. Congress has basically neutered itself under Trump.

This has been an ongoing trend, it's not something new. DACA, for example, was a sweeping change to immigration policy without so much as a gesture in the direction of considering that Congress is responsible for actually making these laws.

[Noxx79]

Of course, that's plainly and obviously illegal and there's not really any room for debate on it. Personally I'm inclined to roll back the imperial presidency, but it seems that the main lesson the parties actually take away from each instance of it is that they just need to get their guy in so they can use all the cool new powers that the last guy discovered.

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This has been an ongoing trend, it's not something new. DACA, for example, was a sweeping change to immigration policy without so much as a gesture in the direction of considering that Congress is responsible for actually making these laws.

Bullshit. Look up the DREAM act and tell us again how Congress was never even considered.

[Spectral]

Bullshit. Look up the DREAM act and tell us again how Congress was never even considered.

I suppose that's a better way to phrase it - Congress chose to not pass legislation, so the imperial executive branch simply decided that rule of law was irrelevant and they'd make up their own laws. So Congress was considered, their decision found wanting, and then ignored.

[Skroe]

Bernie already said during the debates, that he plans to use Trump’s tact. As in, the progressives are planing to use executive orders and national emergency declaration to push their agenda. Trump has given too much power to the executive branch and there is no way it’s going to get curbed before the next election. We will see where “free” college goes, when college debt is declared a national emergency.

Another reason why I'm overjoyed to be living in a universe where that human skidmark will never get within a parsec of the Presidency.

I have not spent the past nearly 3 years - IRL... not here.... IRL - going to war against Donald Trump because of the mortal threat that I perceive his use of executive power to be to our democracy, just to have the next President come along and say "well my emergency REALLY IS super duper important" and abuse the rules and abuse the system, just as Individual-1 did.

We have a legislature. If this country wants free college, Congress will write a bill that authorizes and funds it, and the President will sign it. That is how things work here. Process legitimizes. Everyone things their cause is of critical importance. That's irrelevant. The response going through the process is how idea is legitimized and transformed into a policy into a law. If we're going to, yet again, go to the Presidential short cut, after all of this... all I have to say is this country would deserve worse than Trump next time around, because like so many other articles of its enormous automasturbatory bullshit, it calls itself a republic when it clearly wants a king, because it really can't handle the stress of doing the process. In which case I'd laugh from atop my pile of money in Singapore as every idiot who stayed in America murdered each other in the never-ending ideological war. Really. I'd hope they all enjoy their crap lives as they sink into the ocean together.

The only way this stupid era ends is with a series of extraordinarily weak Presidents who surrender power accumulated since World War II back to Congress and we as a people learn the importance of compromise in our legislature, rather than getting frustrated by gridlock and then making excuses why the cause du jour is so fucking important that its really okay this time that the President extend executive power again.

If we don't do that, it's truly been for nothing and the American people will deserve every ounce of misery they get when Smarter Donald Trump roles along and demagogues with finesse rather than like a WWE Superstar.

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Also, as I've heard a few recent Weeds guests pound home in what seems to be an expectation setting exercise for progressives, merely taking the Senate means that you need Joe Manchin on board to actually do anything, so the chances of genuinely progressive goals getting through in that scenario are basically nil. Win one more seat than that? Get ready to pitch ideas to Jon Tester. Another one? Maybe Mark Warner.

This is another reason that progressive ideas along the lines of "free" college aren't going anywhere.

Every time I've brought up in this forum how Democrats need Manchin and people like him to get to 51 votes, much less 60, a segment of the progressives here have utterly lost their shit. And the thing is, about a month ago I walked them through it state-by-state and offered contrast to how Democrats had 60 votes back in 2009 (with "legacy" '80s and '90s southern Democrat seats in transition to going Republican in 2010 and 2012).

I'm not sure why this is hard for them. They fall in love so fucking easily. I don't get how they can't be utterly transactional with like 5 guys. More broadly, they refuse to look at how Mitch McConnell runs the show, because *he gets it*. As I said, he doesn't really care if Susan Collins votes against Obamacare repeal. He never really cared for that and only used it as a political talking point and something to raise money off of. When it failed, he was more relieved than anybody. But boy... does he care that she vote for his judges. Which she does uniformly.

McConnell gets that you don't need 100% ideological conformity. You need 40%. Because its that 40% that really matters, and the 60% is just "nice but meh". And this is why McConnell's Senate Campaign fund is working in overdrive to protect vulnerable Republican Senators... even going so far to threaten to blacklist any outside group that tries to primary his chosen candidate list.

Meanwhile Democrats have the Last Kennedy running against Ed Markey, the most progressive man in the Senate, for some reason.

[Breccia]

Putin pours gasoline on the fire.

Russia voiced hope Friday that the U.S. administration wouldn’t publish private conversations between the two nations’ presidents, like it did with Ukraine.

The rough transcript of Trump’s call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy released by the White House Wednesday shows that Trump urged Ukraine to “look into” his Democratic political rival Joe Biden. The July 25 call is now the focus of a U.S. impeachment probe.

Asked if Moscow is worried that the White House could similarly publish transcripts of Trump’s calls with Russian President Vladimir Putin, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said that “we would like to hope that it wouldn’t come to that in our relations, which are already troubled by a lot of problems.”

"Um...who was suggesting they'd be made public?"

Near as I can tell, nobody. I think Putin is trolling Trump. This seems like a suggestion that something in a Trump-Putin call was concealed for a reason. Hell, maybe that's even true, but I doubt it -- Putin's not stupid enough to do what a recently elected comedian with no government experience, and also the President of Ukraine, would do on what they knew was a monitored phone call. He'd use a back channel, like the NRA.

[Thekri]

Putin pours gasoline on the fire.



"Um...who was suggesting they'd be made public?"

Near as I can tell, nobody. I think Putin is trolling Trump. This seems like a suggestion that something in a Trump-Putin call was concealed for a reason. Hell, maybe that's even true, but I doubt it -- Putin's not stupid enough to do what a recently elected comedian with no government experience, and also the President of Ukraine, would do on what they knew was a monitored phone call. He'd use a back channel, like the NRA.

He isn't stupid enough to say anything that is going to get him in trouble (Not sure what sort of thing actually would), but he is plenty smart enough to bait Trump into saying extremely compromising shit and then get Congress to subpoena the transcript. At least if he doesn't have any more use for Trump. After all, gaining leverage is what the KGB does, and Putin is still a KGB man at heart.