9.0 General Discussion

[Nyel]

Yes. Deathwing was just a firebreathing doomsday cultist who didn't even come out as a legit threat. He was lame

Excuse me what? Deathwing shaped Azeroth as it is now. The last time this happened was during the Sundering. Not the invasion of the Legion nor the Plague nor any Old God had such an impact on Azeroth as Deathwing had. Even Sargeras stabbing Azeroth barely changed anything besides Azerite here and there. Deathwing shaped Azeroth.

[Shadochi]

That’s more than N’zoth got. He had no impact at all throughout BfA. Occurring here and there without doing anything is quite a pitiful representation of an Old God in the end.

1. Old gods dont achieve stuff directly but by growing their influence indirectly
2. Everything that Deathwing achieved was in turn Nzoths doing, that is how Old Gods do stuff.

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Excuse me what? Deathwing shaped Azeroth as it is now. The last time this happened was during the Sundering. Not the invasion of the Legion nor the Plague nor any Old God had such an impact on Azeroth as Deathwing had. Even Sargeras stabbing Azeroth barely changed anything besides Azerite here and there. Deathwing shaped Azeroth.

But why did deathwing do all of that... because the Old Gods influenced him. So in the greater picture it was the Old Gods that reshaped azeroth.

Nzoths plan even then was to be released with the Hour of Twilight, but that failed.

[Sondrelk]

Yeah, but that's the thing. If something is going on in the background (with Xal?) and we were searching all of Azeroth for Sylvanas the void also risks having what is happening found.

And it's only after the faction war finished that Nzoth showed up, meaning after we were done fighting each other, he made us fight some more (tho him this time) maybe to turn our focus away form other locations in the world.

He clearly knew that Sylvanas was a threat and had th eyes of the world on her. A far more effective strategy would be to have us fighting Sylvanas, making sure that his faceless minions hounded us on every other corner, and in the background slowly building his powerbase until Sylvanas is on the cusp of deat, then swoop in and crush them all.

[draugril]

Excuse me what? Deathwing shaped Azeroth as it is now. The last time this happened was during the Sundering. Not the invasion of the Legion nor the Plague nor any Old God had such an impact on Azeroth as Deathwing had. Even Sargeras stabbing Azeroth barely changed anything besides Azerite here and there. Deathwing shaped Azeroth.

It’s arguable that we lost against Deathwing. He won before the fight even started.

[Shadochi]

He clearly knew that Sylvanas was a threat and had th eyes of the world on her. A far more effective strategy would be to have us fighting Sylvanas, making sure that his faceless minions hounded us on every other corner, and in the background slowly building his powerbase until Sylvanas is on the cusp of deat, then swoop in and crush them all.

You are still assuming that he still plays the main role in corrupting azeroth while that might've been passed to Xal which might be exactly WHY he doesn't want us roaming the world. And from his point it might be that if Xal succeeds in bringing the Void lords, Sylvanas is no longer a threat.

[Sondrelk]

But why did deathwing do all of that... because the Old Gods influenced him. So in the greater picture it was the Old Gods that reshaped azeroth.

Nzoths plan even then was to be released with the Hour of Twilight, but that failed.

That is kinda what we are here complaining about. Even the minions of N'zoth are given more prominence than he is.
Sure, from a purely logical standpoint it makes sense why the leader would be weaker than his minions, but this is a story, and stories run on tropes not logic. Why should even the mindslave of N'zoth Deathwing be given more time to show his might than N'zoth himself was?

[Darkarath]

]We dealt with him in either a raid or questline in every single major and minor patch of BfA tho.

EDIT:
8.0 We had the stormsong storyline and Uldir which gave us MOTHER, a powerful/smart ally
8.1 Questline in Stormsong and Naga Attacks
8.1.5 Dagger questline and raid (not sure if we first got the dagger in 8.1 or .5)
8.2 Nazjatar - we released him
8.2.5 Wrathion finding an antidote for his corruption
8.3 Bringing the battle to him using the research Wrathion did to prevent corruption and with the help of MOTHER

The same interaction that you showed here is applicable to Sargeras in Legion, but no one with a minor knowledge of the lore would think that we would kill him in 7.3, because it makes no sense to build a character for years just to kill him when he first appears in all his might (plus he is just to big and powerful for us).

The exact same thing applies to N'zoth, in terms of building, size and power. N'zoth has been the biggest baddie of WoW with Sargeras since Vanilla. The difference is that at least Sargeras has a themed expansion, or one and a half if you count BC besides Legion.

Its obvious that Sargeras and the Burning Legion will return at some point (in fact I am pretty sure that we only defeated them because they were fighting the Void at the same time), I hope that N'zoth survives, so that we can have a proper expansion centered in the Old Gods (which we do not have yet as Cataclysm was mostly about Dragons and Elementals).

[Doffen]

I do not think that we will fight Azshara any time soon. I see her as an ally when we share a common cause, maybe permanently or maybe for some time until we have to kill her for good.

Regarding Xal'atath, I have no doubts that Blizzard is building her to be the next big baddie for a few expansions. A constant threath that will show up here and there, like Azshara has been since Vanilla.

Hopefully they will develop her better now that they have better tech, and hopefully they will make her justice when we finally fight her, which did not happen with Azshara and Nazjatar, at least Nazjatar was very dissapointing to me (although I like the zone, but I expected way more of the main city of the Naga empire). But Azshara is still alive, so there is still the possibility that Blizzard does not waste such an interesting character.

I don't think so, I don't think reusing Aszhara for a 3rd time is a smart choice for an expansion theme.

I don't mean that Azshara will become the next big bad or anything, but her actions in BfA will lead to what's to come in 9.0. What if darkness really comes to Azeroth after N'Zoth's death? I don't think we can write off anything with the Black Empire so soon™ Of course I can be wrong, but that article made me get some newfound tinfoil hat speculations going on.

And to not use Azshara in the future, good or bad, now that's a waste. Also noting, that Azshara is going to be central, or rather be around for more than just half an expansion. I think, for at least some of us, is good news.

[Feali]

All this fighting..

[Gangreflamme]

One single week.

[Wangming]

Excuse me what? Deathwing shaped Azeroth as it is now. The last time this happened was during the Sundering. Not the invasion of the Legion nor the Plague nor any Old God had such an impact on Azeroth as Deathwing had. Even Sargeras stabbing Azeroth barely changed anything besides Azerite here and there. Deathwing shaped Azeroth.

True. But I never fealt that....oh shit I'm going to die. I was busy exploring the new lands and shit. I was never in danger of Deathwing killing me. Outside of the end raid of course.

[Sondrelk]

True. But I never fealt that....oh shit I'm going to die. I was busy exploring the new lands and shit. I was never in danger of Deathwing killing me. Outside of the end raid of course.

Regardless, that was still something that made Deathwing a more credible threat than N'zoth. All the buildup in the world means nothing if the villains is defeated right after showing up.

[Nyel]

But why did deathwing do all of that... because the Old Gods influenced him. So in the greater picture it was the Old Gods that reshaped azeroth.

Nzoths plan even then was to be released with the Hour of Twilight, but that failed.

Sure you can count Deathwing as "N'zoth's masterpiece" but that even puts greater shade on how N'zoth is represented in BfA - up until 8.3 as a literal nobody and even during 8.3 as somebody who doesn't have any lasting impact at all by himself alone. That's the sad part about N'zoth throughout BfA.

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It’s arguable that we lost against Deathwing. He won before the fight even started.

Azeroth lost against him, indeed.

[Dragtox]

but deathwing is already dead thrall killed him a long time ago
i am more suprised how they fixed his body he most be a undead dragon

33min 16 sec in

[ExiHext]

True. But I never fealt that....oh shit I'm going to die. I was busy exploring the new lands and shit. I was never in danger of Deathwing killing me. Outside of the end raid of course.

Uhm, I was blasted to death by DW once in the outside world, even got an achievement for that. Was kinda cool.

[huth]

Excuse me what? Deathwing shaped Azeroth as it is now. The last time this happened was during the Sundering. Not the invasion of the Legion nor the Plague nor any Old God had such an impact on Azeroth as Deathwing had. Even Sargeras stabbing Azeroth barely changed anything besides Azerite here and there. Deathwing shaped Azeroth.

I'd say Deathwing against Sargeras is more external vs. internal injury. Deathwing produced more superficial scars, but ultimately, Sargeras did a lot more damage.

[Wangming]

Uhm, I was blasted to death by DW once in the outside world, even got an achievement for that. Was kinda cool.

It might have happened to me in Stonetalon as well. But that's it. He gave me a cool achievement as he flew by. Granted it is hard to be threatening in an MMO where there is no bad ending, but still.

[taishar68]

Regardless, that was still something that made Deathwing a more credible threat than N'zoth. All the buildup in the world means nothing if the villains is defeated right after showing up.

Unless N'zoth is Emperor Palpatine in Return of the Jedi, i.e., "Strike me down and I shall become more powerful than you can imagine", etc. You can make the stretch that defeating N'zoth by using the awesome power of the HoA is enough power bouncing around, with the right elemental mixture, to fuel a second cataclysm of sorts, allowing for a major reshaping of the world, major breaks or complete obliteration of the barriers with the Shadowlands, and so on. Then you tie that back to Sylatath (Xalvanas?) and boom, there's your expansion.

[Sondrelk]

Unless N'zoth is Emperor Palpatine in Return of the Jedi, i.e., "Strike me down and I shall become more powerful than you can imagine", etc. You can make the stretch that defeating N'zoth by using the awesome power of the HoA is enough power bouncing around, with the right elemental mixture, to fuel a second cataclysm of sorts, allowing for a major reshaping of the world, major breaks or complete obliteration of the barriers with the Shadowlands, and so on. Then you tie that back to Sylatath (Xalvanas?) and boom, there's your expansion.

That would be a solution, believe that has been mentioned before. Though specifically with Xal'atath, which makes sense.

The problem is if N'zoth doesnt do that and is just defeated without any backup plans.

[Wangming]

The problem is if N'zoth doesnt do that and is just defeated without any backup plans.

To be fair we thought the same about Palpatine and apparently he is back.