Why the Shadowlands make me depressed

[Destinas]

I don't hate the idea of what the zones are in Shadowlands, or what the roles of the Covenants are. It was completely expected that they would have old characters returning in the land of the dead - being punished or rewarded for their past deeds. We saw some glimpses of the Shadowlands for years now, with Uuna's scenario, the Edge of Night short story, and even the end of Shadowmoon Burial Grounds, so we knew there would be more to it than when we corpse run.

What I dislike is that, so far, the zones essentially look like four places that could have been different planets, instead of a different realm of existence entirely. I was expecting more...spirits? Odd, floaty things? Stuff that doesn't make sense? The Necrolord's zone just looks like they updated EPL. Ardenweald looks like it could literally just be another zone of the Emerald Dream, instead of the spirit world version of the Emerald Dream. Though, I do like the way Revendreth looks, since I like Gothic architecture - but it still doesn't look like an alien realm of death to me.

[Wangming]

Suspension of disblieve used to mean "I accept that there is magic and dragons in the world". But in WOW now it appearantly means "there are no rules, devs make up everything as they go and what might be true today is false tomorrow".

This. To give an example for Mass Effect to work, you need element zero. A fictional mineral that creates mass altering fields when exposed to an electric current. It's obviously a bullshit thing that the setting requires. But it is one thing and everything built around it is consitent and coherent.

For Last of the Jedi to make sense you need the assumptions that

Both the Resistance and the First Order buy ships from arms dealers.
They only buy weapons for their sides and not the enemies for covert operations.
The First Order is too broke to buy or develop turrets fast enough to counter commercially available X-Wings.
You can die from overusing the Force
Force Ghosts can cast force lightning they just didn't do it before.
Snoke's telepathic powers can be countered with semantics.


That's a lot of assumptions. WoW nowadays is closer to TLJ than Mass Effect

[Beefhammer]

For all their faults, TBC-WotLK era still felt distinctly "Warcraft-y" to me. Cataclysm was an early warning sign for me when they rampaged through the Elemental Planes and wrecked the Dragonflights in favor of pushing their "age of mortals" narrative. With MoP and later Legion and BfA came heavy browbeating moral lessons that were very uncharacteristic of early Warcraft.

If I had to describe the "Warcraft-y" feeling in one word, it would be "badass". Sure, WC2 Horde, WC3 Burning Legion and the Scourge were completely unrepentant evil bastards but they were still beloved characters because they were badass. Arthas' invasion of Quel'Thalas didn't feel "wrong" like the War of Thornes. It felt badass. Thrall didn't lead the orcs on an exodus to Kalimdor because he felt guilty about the Old Horde's actions. He wanted to build a new life for the Horde and he was more than happy to crush some humans skulls along the way.

Ever since MoP it feels like there's a lot of mopey, whiny or otherwise edgy characters. Even Sargeras was retconned to be driven by fear rather than badassery. All of this, of course, came to a head in BfA with Saurfang's incessant whining about honor.

Sorry but this is low hanging fruit. Both expansions tied heavily to the RTS in terms of direct lore and characters. Which was very limiting from a MMO entire world perspective. So when we finally got to these point of course they felt more Warcraft-y.

[Bigdoser]

I pretty much agree with every point here.

It's especially telling that Lore forum regulars seem to mostly be on the same page here, whereas people who... aren't are the only ones defending this absolute dumpsterfire of an expansion.

I've said it before, I'll say it again: The only way to salvage this franchise is to terminate the writing staff, give WoW the RPG treatment and have WCIV pick up where WCIII left off.

This has just become ridiculous.

Yup, people are even salty on the main forums about all the retcons and nonsensical lore changes.

[Skylander]

1: Lol at posters saying get used to them doing whatever from here on out.

2: Some players after witnessing events in BfA about possible faction merging: Are we breaking the cycle?

1: WHAT?! ARE YOU CRAZY? THEY'LL NEVER DO THIS, THIS IS WHAT MAKES WARCRAFT!

[hulkgor]

Point 1. Blizzard retconned a lot of lore to make them happen
This point has already been beaten to death by other posters but I feel like I have to go over it again. Retconning lore on a grand scale like they did with the Shadowlands cheapens everything that happened in the old continuity. Kil'jaeden is no longer a powerful, ingenious demon lord who created the Scourge. He's just some cheap hack who had his goons steal some artifacts from the Shadowlands and then borrowed Maldraxxus' magic. By extensions the Nathrezim are lame too now since they aren't the masters of necromantic magic and the creators of Frostmourne and the Helm of Domination that we thought they were. And this example is just the tip of the iceberg. I won't be buying WC3: Reforged now because replaying the campaign knowing that Kil'jaeden, Ner'zhul & co were just cheap hacks who borrowed or stole stuff that wasn't theirs won't feel right.

Other lore simply doesn't work in the new continuity. If all the souls have been going to the Maw since (at the very least) Teldrassil and no one escapes from the Maw, how did Delaryn and Sira get raised? It's just a glaring plothole now.

But worst of all, it's hard to care about the lore when Blizzard keeps making shit up on the spot and coming up with new "biggest threat ever" every other year or so and waylaying established characters. Why get invested in the lore of the Shadowlands when it's a given that the Jailer will end up being a mook for some other cosmic threat? Speaking of waylayed characters...

Point 2. Why do the Shadowlands deserve their own expansion in the first place?
People were hyped to go to Argus for at least a decade. It ended up being a couple of barren rocks floating in space and Sargeras' main base of operations was somehow less impressive than Scourge fortresses in Icecrown, who were supposed to be the Legion's proxies. Did you want to see the purple heels of Mac'Aree? Fuck you. Advanced Eredar technology? Fuck you. Grandiose Burning Legion strongholds? Fuck you.

Same goes for Nazjatar. The branch of Naga in the Outland somehow managed to have a more impressive presence in Zangarmarsh than in their own capital on Azeroth. At least the Coilfang facility had 3 dungeons and a raid. Nazjatar was just one small raid surrounded by a barren seafloor and... that's it.

Won't even get started on Ny'alotha. What they did there after a decade of build up is an atrocity. Argus at least got 3 zones. The "great and terrible city of Ny'alotha" ended up being two cramped, instances temples. Which brings me to...

Point 3. Blizzard doesn't care about the integrity of Warcraft's lore
It would have made sense if Argus, Nazjatar and Ny'alotha / Black Empire had gotten their own expansions. They were, after all, very important places. Arguably more important than Pandaria which did end up being a fully-fledged continent.

Unfortunately Blizzard doesn't give a fuck about what makes sense and what doesn't. They listened to a bunch of bogus complaints that people were tired of fel green / underwater zones / tentacles and decided to quickly ax those stories despite them being fundamental, long-running parts of the Warcraft universe. Guess what? Shit storytelling and gameplay makes games unenjoyable, not color palettes. People still play Counterstrike decades later despite it having a relatively boring and same-y color palette.

And even if we assume that a same-y color palette has any bearing on the enjoyability of a game, who's to say Argus, Nazjatar and Ny'alotha couldn't have been colorful and diverse? After all, Blizzard managed to take a barren black / white / grey dimension and turn it into something that resembles and acid trip and based an entire expansion around it. Too bad Argus didn't get the same treatment.

How can you get invested in the lore of a game when all the shots are called by investors and the "boohoo who cares about the lore, give me colorful enemies to slay" crowd rather than the writers? You can't. Speaking of the writers...

Point 4. The current writing team has no respect for the efforts of the OGs like Metzen
The current writing team just jumps on the latest twitter bandwagon and bases the entire story around it. WC3 Sylvanas, Jaina and Tyrande were strong women and Thrall embodied non-toxic masculinity. BfA Sylvanas, Jaina, Tyrande are just caricatures of their WC3 selves. And Anduin is non-toxic to the detriment of common sense.

Point 5. Blizzard just does whatever the fuck they want to
Blizzard wants Dracula's castle in WoW? Blizzard makes Dracula's castle in WoW. Which leads me to believe that the current team is completely unversed in Warcraft's lore if they have to do complete asspulls and retcon existing lore to create something interesting.

Or even worse, they DON'T care about WoW's lore. They just sit down and and come up with whatever generic fantasy trope they want to draw / write a story about on a given day and roll with it. Existing lore be damned. Speaking of genericity...

Point 6. The Shadowlands are completely generic
The Night Fae, the Necrolords, the Kyrians and the Venthyr are just caricatures of the Wild Gods, the Scourge, the Val'kyr and the San'layn respectively. But whereas the latter factions have rich backstories and were introduced into Warcraft in an organic, non-jarring way, the former factions are just asspulls that Blizzard came up with on the spot to fill the Shadowlands with variety. There's nothing new or interesting about the Shadowlands Covenants. They're just regurgitated and less interesting versions of what we already had for years.

Point 7. The Shadowlands are extremely childish
If you're a good man - you go to WoW heaven. If you're a bad man - you got to WoW hell. It's dogmatic, it's simplistic, it's browbeating. There's absolutely zero need to say "oh yeah Kael'thas was a bad man so he's getting tortured by BDSM vampires in hell for eternity". It reads like something a 5 year old child would write to "punish" a bad character he dislikes. Kael'thas already got his punishment and that was the legacy of the Sunstriders being completely destroyed and all but forgotten about. It's a way more fitting punishment for a character's misdeeds than saying "oh yeah he was a bad man so he's going to burn in hell."

But worst of all, Blizzard just can't or refuses to write satisfying story arcs anymore. Everything drags on for years and years and the gets wrapped up in the least satisfying way imaginable. Give us something fun, concise and enjoyable like the Blood Elves' redemption arc in TBC. Not more of Sylvanas' edgy adventures.

Nice blogpost, thanks for sharing, i guess?

[Syegfryed]

In light of Blizzcon 2019, you should update your signature to Shadowlands' logo.

it was not me who did this, im sure another background and another Garrosh pose would be right too

[tripleh]

The retconning is more about money then actual logic. It's no different then how disney was with starwars, ignoring things to put out there own ideas. Say goodbye to immersion when now everything has to be questioned if its true or gonna be another retcon later on. Gotta face it Alex,Steve Danuser,Terron Gregory, Golden can't come up with anything good anymore. The game is old so they don't care about logical story telling anymore. Hopefully no other gaming companies will hire these idiots when wow dies.

[Aeula]

you forgot about the Chronicles.

most canon thing you can find.

no retconing anymore, fam.

Chronicles is an unreliable narrator now. So you can’t trust it.

[Reinhart11]

The retconning is more about money then actual logic. It's no different then how disney was with starwars, ignoring things to put out there own ideas. Say goodbye to immersion when now everything has to be questioned if its true or gonna be another retcon later on. Gotta face it Alex,Steve Danuser,Terron Gregory, Golden can't come up with anything good anymore. The game is old so they don't care about logical story telling anymore. Hopefully no other gaming companies will hire these idiots when wow dies.

There are lots of old fantasy universes out there, no? And they still come up with neat stories if the writers are decent and passionate about that fantasy universe. The key problem here is, those writers are neither competent nor passionate about the Warcraft universe apart from their own bad creations.

[DemonHunter18]

Chronicles is an unreliable narrator now. So you can’t trust it.

oh I know don't worry

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...retcon-anymore

I'm proud that I created a thread

[Terongor]

Heaven / Hell are an extremely simplistic justice system. Everyone gets their due - Heaven and Hell or not. Kil'jaeden's punishment for selling his people out was seeing his homeworld get overtaken by the Fel and ultimately have all of his plans fall apart. Arthas' punishment for destroying his kingdom was dying alone, surrounded by enemies and full of regrets. Tirion's reward for having faith in the Light and leading a righteous life is being remembered as one of Azeroth's greatest heroes, even many years after his death.

"If you're bad you burn in hell" is extremely infantile by comparison.

Well death is fast and you don't really suffer in it as such it really isn't a punishment if there is an after life. As such only the maw is like hell and they are only locked up nothing worse in a way and were kael is more like purgatory were souls is purified and there is apperantly as they said alot more of shadow lands than those 5 realms like the necrolords place I wouldn't place that hell or not as draka wasn't bad nor does she is it punishment really.

How does Tirion gain anything from that after he is dead? how is that a reward? Light didn't even help him against Balnazzar, Gul'dan or krosus light left him to die his reward was dying a meaningless death.

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The simplistic distribution of souls is the one that gets me the most and that you articulated really well, @Wilfire. The second you introduce an implacable authority deciding where you'll go you fuck things up and you also open it up to out of story problems when that arbitration doesn't mesh. Like why Kael got to be a magic vampire despite trying to destroy the world, whereas pre-Cata Sylvanas went to super hell. It also means that when you know for a fact that being a good dude will get you a place in super heaven for all time, the only possible reason to deviate from this is to be a dick for its own sake.

You do lose roughly a million points for thinking the TBC blood elf story was anything but a prelude to what happened to the Forsaken in BFA. Pure, blandifying dross from start to finish that resulted in the Horde lugging around a misplaced Alliance race for over 12 years now, with all of the qualities that made the race what it is dispensed with except a red color scheme.

Well Kael in the end always wanted best for the blood elves and his people while sylvanas lived for vengeace and nothing else she was prepared do anything for her vengeace.

[metzger84]

Blizzard wants Dracula's castle in WoW? Blizzard makes Dracula's castle in WoW.

That's really fucking stupid come to think of it, more so in the context of an afterlife. Suppose they took one too many bong rips when they came up with this.

[tripleh]

There are lots of old fantasy universes out there, no? And they still come up with neat stories if the writers are decent and passionate about that fantasy universe. The key problem here is, those writers are neither competent nor passionate about the Warcraft universe apart from their own bad creations.

On the plus side this is one way to get players to loose interests in the game. If any were originally looking for a reason to quit or take a long break from it. i doubt that I would even install beta if given it to try. Really surprised no new allied races or class not being added. The announcement is lukewarm. Also have to think what effects this will have on solo farming old raid zones for mounts ,items,etc.

[Ianus]

They didn't explain where the helm of domination comes from, or its meaning. When did they talk about KJ? You're saying things they didn't say just to justify your point of view. At least don't lie.

they said that in warcraft 3 and was carried on in WoW and Wotlk happened and now its retcon from beginning.. its garbage beyond garbage

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Please, Metzen constantly retconned his own shit. Anyone remember the Draenei from WC3 that was completely changed by the time WTBC came out?

and he apologized and that he made a mistake at least he acknowledged it

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Please, Metzen constantly retconned his own shit. Anyone remember the Draenei from WC3 that was completely changed by the time WTBC came out?

and he apologized and that he made a mistake at least he acknowledged it

[Kyphael]

Don't forget we get no new class because they have to fix classes.

You make a good point with everything else, Shadowlands preview left a bad taste in my mouth like WoD's trailer.

[Nephys]

Point 1. Blizzard retconned a lot of lore to make them happen
This point has already been beaten to death by other posters but I feel like I have to go over it again. Retconning lore on a grand scale like they did with the Shadowlands cheapens everything that happened in the old continuity. Kil'jaeden is no longer a powerful, ingenious demon lord who created the Scourge. He's just some cheap hack who had his goons steal some artifacts from the Shadowlands and then borrowed Maldraxxus' magic. By extensions the Nathrezim are lame too now since they aren't the masters of necromantic magic and the creators of Frostmourne and the Helm of Domination that we thought they were. And this example is just the tip of the iceberg. I won't be buying WC3: Reforged now because replaying the campaign knowing that Kil'jaeden, Ner'zhul & co were just cheap hacks who borrowed or stole stuff that wasn't theirs won't feel right.

Other lore simply doesn't work in the new continuity. If all the souls have been going to the Maw since (at the very least) Teldrassil and no one escapes from the Maw, how did Delaryn and Sira get raised? It's just a glaring plothole now.

But worst of all, it's hard to care about the lore when Blizzard keeps making shit up on the spot and coming up with new "biggest threat ever" every other year or so and waylaying established characters. Why get invested in the lore of the Shadowlands when it's a given that the Jailer will end up being a mook for some other cosmic threat? Speaking of waylayed characters...

Point 2. Why do the Shadowlands deserve their own expansion in the first place?
People were hyped to go to Argus for at least a decade. It ended up being a couple of barren rocks floating in space and Sargeras' main base of operations was somehow less impressive than Scourge fortresses in Icecrown, who were supposed to be the Legion's proxies. Did you want to see the purple heels of Mac'Aree? Fuck you. Advanced Eredar technology? Fuck you. Grandiose Burning Legion strongholds? Fuck you.

Same goes for Nazjatar. The branch of Naga in the Outland somehow managed to have a more impressive presence in Zangarmarsh than in their own capital on Azeroth. At least the Coilfang facility had 3 dungeons and a raid. Nazjatar was just one small raid surrounded by a barren seafloor and... that's it.

Won't even get started on Ny'alotha. What they did there after a decade of build up is an atrocity. Argus at least got 3 zones. The "great and terrible city of Ny'alotha" ended up being two cramped, instances temples. Which brings me to...

Point 3. Blizzard doesn't care about the integrity of Warcraft's lore
It would have made sense if Argus, Nazjatar and Ny'alotha / Black Empire had gotten their own expansions. They were, after all, very important places. Arguably more important than Pandaria which did end up being a fully-fledged continent.

Unfortunately Blizzard doesn't give a fuck about what makes sense and what doesn't. They listened to a bunch of bogus complaints that people were tired of fel green / underwater zones / tentacles and decided to quickly ax those stories despite them being fundamental, long-running parts of the Warcraft universe. Guess what? Shit storytelling and gameplay makes games unenjoyable, not color palettes. People still play Counterstrike decades later despite it having a relatively boring and same-y color palette.

And even if we assume that a same-y color palette has any bearing on the enjoyability of a game, who's to say Argus, Nazjatar and Ny'alotha couldn't have been colorful and diverse? After all, Blizzard managed to take a barren black / white / grey dimension and turn it into something that resembles and acid trip and based an entire expansion around it. Too bad Argus didn't get the same treatment.

How can you get invested in the lore of a game when all the shots are called by investors and the "boohoo who cares about the lore, give me colorful enemies to slay" crowd rather than the writers? You can't. Speaking of the writers...

Point 4. The current writing team has no respect for the efforts of the OGs like Metzen
The current writing team just jumps on the latest twitter bandwagon and bases the entire story around it. WC3 Sylvanas, Jaina and Tyrande were strong women and Thrall embodied non-toxic masculinity. BfA Sylvanas, Jaina, Tyrande are just caricatures of their WC3 selves. And Anduin is non-toxic to the detriment of common sense.

Point 5. Blizzard just does whatever the fuck they want to
Blizzard wants Dracula's castle in WoW? Blizzard makes Dracula's castle in WoW. Which leads me to believe that the current team is completely unversed in Warcraft's lore if they have to do complete asspulls and retcon existing lore to create something interesting.

Or even worse, they DON'T care about WoW's lore. They just sit down and and come up with whatever generic fantasy trope they want to draw / write a story about on a given day and roll with it. Existing lore be damned. Speaking of genericity...

Point 6. The Shadowlands are completely generic
The Night Fae, the Necrolords, the Kyrians and the Venthyr are just caricatures of the Wild Gods, the Scourge, the Val'kyr and the San'layn respectively. But whereas the latter factions have rich backstories and were introduced into Warcraft in an organic, non-jarring way, the former factions are just asspulls that Blizzard came up with on the spot to fill the Shadowlands with variety. There's nothing new or interesting about the Shadowlands Covenants. They're just regurgitated and less interesting versions of what we already had for years.

Point 7. The Shadowlands are extremely childish
If you're a good man - you go to WoW heaven. If you're a bad man - you got to WoW hell. It's dogmatic, it's simplistic, it's browbeating. There's absolutely zero need to say "oh yeah Kael'thas was a bad man so he's getting tortured by BDSM vampires in hell for eternity". It reads like something a 5 year old child would write to "punish" a bad character he dislikes. Kael'thas already got his punishment and that was the legacy of the Sunstriders being completely destroyed and all but forgotten about. It's a way more fitting punishment for a character's misdeeds than saying "oh yeah he was a bad man so he's going to burn in hell."

But worst of all, Blizzard just can't or refuses to write satisfying story arcs anymore. Everything drags on for years and years and the gets wrapped up in the least satisfying way imaginable. Give us something fun, concise and enjoyable like the Blood Elves' redemption arc in TBC. Not more of Sylvanas' edgy adventures.

1- I'm not extremelly happy at Shadowlands, but you are just looking for reasons to complain, Kil'Jaeden was a warlock of sorts, he used fel magic, death magic was never his specialty, and we never knew HOW frostmourne and the Lich King were actually created, so its not retconning if we never knew how it happened in the first place. It seems to me that you, and a lot of other people create their own narratives on their mind and then when its explained in a different way than what you imagined you scream "retcon". We also don't know how they "stole" the items, and we don't know what the connection between Shadowlands and the Dreadlords is, so you are just complaining to seem smart, which you aren't.

2- Yeah, Nazjatar and Azshara deserved their own expansion, but fortunately Azshara's story is not over so we might yet see a good development in there. Argus was done like that because people were tired of fel, I wasn't, I would kill to have Argus as an expansion instead of BfA, but people were already complaining before Tomb of Sargeras, so ...

3- see 2

4- It's not that they don't respect Metzen's story, I actually believe that they do try their best, their extremelly limited best... just to clarify I mean they are just bad writers, which doesn't make it any better, so in this point you are right.

5- see 1 for the retcons.

6- I actually think that the covens are really interesting, my only problem with them is that I won't be able to chose the coven that I actually like, instead I will have to chose the one who gives me the strongest abilities. But the story itself looks really really interesting and I am looking forward to it.

7- I find it funny that you cite TBC as an example of good lore.

[Powerogue]

This isn't a retcon any more than the draenei were. Expanding on an existing story with more context isn't a retcon. We just knew they made the helm of domination, not how.

And on point 7 this notion has been in place since at least WotLK with Crusader Bridenbrad and Sylvanas.

"Point 5. Blizzard just does whatever the fuck they want to
Blizzard wants Dracula's castle in WoW? Blizzard makes Dracula's castle in WoW."

Frankly that's what I love about them. I refuse to be mad about a Castlevania zone, it sounds rad.

Blizzard wants the viking afterlives in WoW? Blizzard MAKES the viking afterlives in WoW!

[sam86]

I can't really find any interesting character tbh. they all died out.

most characters are written like they don't know what to do with them.

like, compare Illidan from WC3 to TBC Illidan. compare TBC Illdan to WotA trilogy Illidan.

compare Legion Illidan to all those above and you see how different they are.

Kael and Vashj got even worst treatment.

Archimonde and Kil'jaden went from being badass demonlords to being punk bi***, not to mention Kil'jaeden is suddenly sorry for his own planet.

If u recall, many players complained - me included - that in vanilla wow most enemy bosses were some generic random npcs that we felt no attach to them, u don't care if u kill Rivendale or not, Ragnaros isn't that interesting and Neltharion was just introduced and unlike his entire race decided to control the old horde instead of manipulate humans?
As result blizz made sure most TBC enemies are known names from lore just to be slaughtered, hence why Illidan suddenly is evil must kill and Kael join BL who are literally the core reason of all his problems, heck they even brought known npcs to be dungeon bosses like Karagath who was honored in vanilla and Zul'jin who we couldn't wait to 'join him' in vanilla as horde and even shadow labs has some minor orcs from the wc2 era
while the story was still 'good' in compare to current days they really mass slaughtered anyone just for the sake of it, half of those names shouldn't been evil in first place, in fact why did they make Maeiv the good guy when she was clearly the wrong one in wc3 tft ?

For all their faults, TBC-WotLK era still felt distinctly "Warcraft-y" to me. Cataclysm was an early warning sign for me when they rampaged through the Elemental Planes and wrecked the Dragonflights in favor of pushing their "age of mortals" narrative. With MoP and later Legion and BfA came heavy browbeating moral lessons that were very uncharacteristic of early Warcraft.

If I had to describe the "Warcraft-y" feeling in one word, it would be "badass". Sure, WC2 Horde, WC3 Burning Legion and the Scourge were completely unrepentant evil bastards but they were still beloved characters because they were badass. Arthas' invasion of Quel'Thalas didn't feel "wrong" like the War of Thornes. It felt badass. Thrall didn't lead the orcs on an exodus to Kalimdor because he felt guilty about the Old Horde's actions. He wanted to build a new life for the Horde and he was more than happy to crush some humans skulls along the way.

Ever since MoP it feels like there's a lot of mopey, whiny or otherwise edgy characters. Even Sargeras was retconned to be driven by fear rather than badassery. All of this, of course, came to a head in BfA with Saurfang's incessant whining about honor.

I completely agree with u

[CreatureLives]

When they say no one escapes The Maw I think they mean no one escapes The Maw to go to other parts of the Shadowlands. Resurrection is something different. Someone living is pulling you back to their world. The whole point of us being there is we are special because we are the living. We have a power that they don't. It's the same reason why we escape The Maw when we first get there.

And if that excuse doesn't work then Sylvanas was the one who raised the night elves and she is in bed with The Jailer.