My mind changed about Sylvanas

[Cosmic Janitor]

Can I ask someone something - why does Sylvanas say "a USURPER sits on a frozen throne". She never wanted it, did she? She just wanted Arthas dead. Then going into a blind fit of rage once she discovers Bolvar..

Did Bolvar ruin a longer-term plan of hers? I can't be the only one that finds the "Usurper" language strange.

I wondered about that as well. It's not like Bolvar schemed to get the crown. He was there and already no longer fully alive. He just did the Paladin thing and sacrificed himself to spare his friend Tirion.

[Budong]

So she did not burn thousands of innocent woman and children alive in Teldrassil out of spite then?

Sometimes if you wanna make an omelet...you gotta burn to death a few thousand elves.

[RaoBurning]

I figure she's after the same thing Willem Dafoe was in Beyond: Two Souls. Just totally break down the barriers between life and death and boom! No more suffering the loss of loved ones, war is meaningless, whales are cool, she doesn't get sent to a pit for being a murdering murderer who murders, etc. etc.

Win-win all around.

[Nomads]

Jesus, if I paid for Blizzcon tickets, flew all the way to California, and had to sit next to a dipshit like this, I'd be finding a way to shut him up....

[Schattenlied]

After watching this video by Pyromancer, I think I've finally realized her true intention. Listen to the few things he says before the reaction video.



She didn't go to ICC to hurt Bolvar. If that was her intent, she wouldn't have left him alive. First, she released him from his own prison with the helm. Then she shatters the veil between Azeroth and the Shadowlands.

I'm pretty sure that shadowy figure she's standing in front of is chained down. She's using him, for the greater good, or waiting for us to follow to help bring this guy down. This shadowy figure is disrupting the balance, or is keeping this 'prison' in check for the Titans.

The titans will witness these efforts Sylvanas is going through, and will try to stop her, but in the end, I believe she's going after the titans.

"And I will set us all free." - Sylvanas

They said the Jailor predates the titans... So, no.

[Fallen of Lordaeron]

The titans will witness these efforts Sylvanas is going through, and will try to stop her, but in the end, I believe she's going after the titans.

The Titans are pretty far on the backburner at this point. At most, Titan Constructs like Odyn and the other watchers might do something.

I'd be shocked if we didn't get at least Odyn/Helya lore this expansion.

"Sylvanas was out to save us all along" doesn't sound like a compelling narrative at this point. Especially when you consider the cinematic ending for Sylvanas loyalists where she essentially says "Even though you backed me, you were dead as soon as this war started."

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They said the Jailor predates the titans... So, no.

Wasn't that the Arbiter? Jailer conceivably could too though.

They also cited Titans' ignorance about the inner workings of the Shadowlands as the reason Chronicles didn't cover the Shadowlands in-depth. Them suddenly having any knowledge about the Shadowlands beyond what's covered seems like a stretch given their current imprisonment.

[Gungnir]

I figure she's after the same thing Willem Dafoe was in Beyond: Two Souls. Just totally break down the barriers between life and death and boom! No more suffering the loss of loved ones, war is meaningless, whales are cool, she doesn't get sent to a pit for being a murdering murderer who murders, etc. etc.

Win-win all around.

Just so we're clear here, literally every noteworthy character in lore are murderers.
Every single one of them are genocidal maniacs. Because it's a high fantasy game centered around war.

[Ghostwhowalks]

My hope is that we find out that some where along the way... the Titans chained one of their own to alter the very nature of the Universe. The material plane, where life as we know it, was created by them on the back of that action. Creating a middle between life and death. But it shouldn't have existed. Ever. The planes should have been one thing. Where life and death exists together. The Dream and the Shadowlands together, not held apart by the our material existence.

If not one of them, some other cosmic entity, but yeah. They didn't want mortals being immortal, so they split the realms some how and then went around messing with planets and all that.

And that chained being, the Jailer, has been getting stronger and stronger and wants to put things back to how they were meant to be. Symbolically his existence would be Jailing us all. Not just the 'souls of the damned'.

I dunno. I'm keen to see where it all goes.

[Muajin76]

He's literally in the same chains Sylvanas did to Bolvar.

he looks like he's on a throne that just happens to be entwined with chains. :P

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They said the Jailor predates the titans... So, no.

hmm..so the story on how alsestein becomes the jailer, think blizz will leave that out?

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I'm pretty sure in the expansion overview videonwe see a standing jailer that does not appear to be bound in chains. Also, he has been giving her powers, so I think it's the other way around. He is using her. That is not to say she isn't trying to use him.

I don't think any of this has anything to do with the titans since this place and the Jailer and Arbiter have been around before the titans.

As for her comments, I have no clue. Is she trying to stop death all together so no one dies?

Why would she stop the being that gave her those newfound godlike powers?:P

[Sezh]

I wouldn't mind her turning out to be a "hero" in Shadowlands with "good" intentions. But I will not enjoy a redemption arc for her. I want her to hate "us" and I want "us" to hate her regardless of what she did because her cause did not justify her methods. Something like her voluntarily going in exile after "saving" us seems reasonable. If at all this is the way the story is going to go.

[Deventh]

In one of the blizzcon panels they said every soul last in teldrasil and during the 4th war are being sent straight to the maw (Instead of being rightfully judged by the arbiter and then sent to the correct area of the shadow lands based on their deeds in life.) These souls are used as fuel to power the jailer and in turn sylvanas herself.

So she killed all those people including her own troops, to empower her jailer buddy and herself. That's my take on it anyway.

Thank God that is not Blizzard’s intention. She obviously have bigger plans and she didn’t start a war to simply empower herself and then bring the heroes to Shadowlands to undo it all. Please use logic for a bit and you will see that she will end up being the most underrated good character in the franchise without exaggeration.

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I wouldn't mind her turning out to be a "hero" in Shadowlands with "good" intentions. But I will not enjoy a redemption arc for her. I want her to hate "us" and I want "us" to hate her regardless of what she did because her cause did not justify her methods. Something like her voluntarily going in exile after "saving" us seems reasonable. If at all this is the way the story is going to go.

I don’t hate her and she doesn’t hate me. That’s why Blizzard made us choose between green traitors and our Warchief.

[Sezh]

Thank God that is not Blizzard’s intention. She obviously have bigger plans and she didn’t start a war to simply empower herself and then bring the heroes to Shadowlands to undo it all. Please use logic for a bit and you will see that she will end up being the most underrated good character in the franchise without exaggeration.

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I don’t hate her and she doesn’t hate me. That’s why Blizzard made us choose between green traitors and our Warchief.

I mean "us" as in the people of Azeroth within the context of the story.

If Blizzard does as you suggested in your other reply and give her a redemption arc, it will be very disappointing imo. It would make her an exact copy paste of Kerrigan which is incredibly unimaginative.

[Beefhammer]

He's literally in the same chains Sylvanas did to Bolvar.

Neat. I never noticed those chains.

[Rafalga]

Thank God that is not Blizzard’s intention. She obviously have bigger plans and she didn’t start a war to simply empower herself and then bring the heroes to Shadowlands to undo it all. Please use logic for a bit and you will see that she will end up being the most underrated good character in the franchise without exaggeration.

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I don’t hate her and she doesn’t hate me. That’s why Blizzard made us choose between green traitors and our Warchief.

Are you larping? She will be killed. Redemption arc for her sounds more retarded then the current direction.

[RaoBurning]

Just so we're clear here, literally every noteworthy character in lore are murderers.
Every single one of them are genocidal maniacs. Because it's a high fantasy game centered around war.

All the more reason to break the ultimate cycle once and for all.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

I mean she's like certainly someone bent on destroying existence as it is to escape her own pain, no matter how many lives she destroys in the process -because ultimately all life as it exists is worthless- but okay.

She's very interesting as this force bent on destroying existence, but come on, her motives are entirely self serving and selfish; any altruism is coincidental or either something she just uses as justification. It's narcissistic, not altruistic.

[Syegfryed]

yeah, she is doing all for the greater good, she is always thinking about saving us and the world

the sad part abou this is i don't doubt the team actually pull this shit out and kerrigan her like this, despite the community already hating her, that would be the worst outcome imaginable for this expansion and i hope they have self-aware that it will hurt the lore without repair and nobody want that shit

[Gungnir]

All the more reason to break the ultimate cycle once and for all.

Or just happily watch the world burn.
After the character writing in BfA and Legion, we aren't really losing much of value.

[Powerogue]

Just so we're clear here, literally every noteworthy character in lore are murderers.
Every single one of them are genocidal maniacs. Because it's a high fantasy game centered around war.

Anduin, Uther, Varian-at-least-post-tempering-by-Anduin, Baine, I mean we obviously can't make this list but they exist.

Being willing to kill to defend what's right isn't the same thing as genocidal.

She's very interesting as this force bent on destroying existence, but come on, her motives are entirely self serving and selfish; any altruism is coincidental or either something she just uses as justification. It's narcissistic, not altruistic.

Helping the forsaken comes to mind. She needed tools to destroy the Lich King, and pitied them, but she never loved them.

I figure she's after the same thing Willem Dafoe was in Beyond: Two Souls. Just totally break down the barriers between life and death and boom! No more suffering the loss of loved ones, war is meaningless, whales are cool, she doesn't get sent to a pit for being a murdering murderer who murders, etc. etc.

Win-win all around.

That's believable. Though it should be noted that doesn't go well for him. Wasn't it that he dies from the rift but posthumously realizes what he did was wrong and helps shut it down?

[Gungnir]

Anduin, Uther, Varian-at-least-post-tempering-by-Anduin, Baine, I mean we obviously can't make this list but they exist.

Being willing to kill to defend what's right isn't the same thing as genocidal.

Killing to defend doesn't all of the sudden justify murdering.