Diablo 4 to feature microtransactions

[Thontor]

https://twitter.com/SkillUpYT/status...02103212802049

So on top of the paid game and expansions, there will be microtransactions. Shame, my excitement had almost made it through one entire week.

There's nothing wrong with microtransactions for cosmetic items

[raogrimm]

I kinda hope they go the EA route just to watch them walk it back, like all free character skins are blonde, blue-eye, white males.

Blizzard: "We are sorry, but if your character is not a part of the master race, you must pay $4.99!"

One week later on a Friday...

Blizzard: "We acted to quickly, and responded to slowly and promise to do better!"

One month later....

Blizzard: "We are happy to announce female characters can now have full body armor instead of the 'Justice League Movie, Amazon Warrior' metal bikini for $9.99!"

[Kagdar]

But, the MTX stuff, IMO, is stuff that should be in the game to begin with, or stuff that could be added to an expansion, that will be paid for eventually. So, my cake example is much, much, much better. You go to buy a cake that has icing, sprinkles, etc. on the display version, you go to buy one, and you have to pay extra for all the other stuff.
Regardless, it's taking content, that should be in the game already, or with the next installment, and selling it to you instead. They don't need the sales from MTX to give more updates, if it is a FtP game, then it's understandable, but for a full price AAA game, it's just a dick move.

How is the stuff they put into MTX supposed to be in the base game? If they are cosmetic only mtx, the artists have to work to make those mtx. If they didn't add them as mtx they might not even make them anyway.

Let's say they add some sword skin as an mtx. Sure they could add like another unique sword to match that skin, but making a new unique does add more jobs to the devs that have to implement which ever unique effect it has. So it's not only the art team that work but the dev team too. If they put that skin on a random non unique sword it might not even be usable in game, we don't even know how the transmog system will work.

My analogy to the car is exactly that, If you want to have a different visual to you car that isn't available in the original design of the car you have to buy it on the side.

Pretty much everything i buy in life is in it's base version and i have to buy extra if i want to add more stuff to it. Games are no different. I never understood people who claim it should be included in the base game. The team does extra work specifically to put it in the cash shop in order to make more money. If it wasn't in cash shop it wouldn't even be made.

Just take a look at what cosmetics are available in D3 in western side compared to what is available in D3 china. They have way more wings and pets that we do. Because they have MTX. Probably that the company that manage D3 in China hired a bunch of artists on their team just to add those MTX and make more money.

[Dorp]

How is the stuff they put into MTX supposed to be in the base game? If they are cosmetic only mtx, the artists have to work to make those mtx. If they didn't add them as mtx they might not even make them anyway.

Let's say they add some sword skin as an mtx. Sure they could add like another unique sword to match that skin, but making a new unique does add more jobs to the devs that have to implement which ever unique effect it has. So it's not only the art team that work but the dev team too. If they put that skin on a random non unique sword it might not even be usable in game, we don't even know how the transmog system will work.

My analogy to the car is exactly that, If you want to have a different visual to you car that isn't available in the original design of the car you have to buy it on the side.

Pretty much everything i buy in life is in it's base version and i have to buy extra if i want to add more stuff to it. Games are no different. I never understood people who claim it should be included in the base game. The team does extra work specifically to put it in the cash shop in order to make more money. If it wasn't in cash shop it wouldn't even be made.

Just take a look at what cosmetics are available in D3 in western side compared to what is available in D3 china. They have way more wings and pets that we do. Because they have MTX. Probably that the company that manage D3 in China hired a bunch of artists on their team just to add those MTX and make more money.

The wow team said a few years back, they have a lot of mounts / pets / etc. that artists and stuff have made during less busy times, and they can easily just pull something out of there to add to the shop / achievement / etc.

If you are selling a game at full price, I expect to get EVERYTHING with the game if I choose to buy it, not bits cut out and sold back to me. If expansions and stuff are planned: things people make, and sell, between the initial launch of the game and the expac, well, that is something that could have been put into the expac to be earned.
Popular AAA titles, that sell at full price, will make A LOT of money and will probably cover the cost of making it a few times over. There is no need for companies to be greedy and try get that little bit more from you. Let's assume D4 will sell about the same as D3 (around 30mil copies), that alone is $1.8billion USD, at 60USD per copy.

[Coldkil]

-snip-

I can agree with this, though i also think there are very different ways to implement them in games. The PoE shop imho is one of the most fair things about mtx currently implemented. It's all optional stuff with some QoL things but all content is completely free.

Obviously they need it because the game is free - otherwise covering the development costs and possibly having a profit would be just impossible.

I think the two concepts needs to be separated.
On one side, you have the "i want to pay once and have all". As far as we know, D4 will be exactly that - you buy the game once and then play all content. Buy the expansion and pay the new content and so on. As most people like it to be if i have to follow the forum threads and posts.
On the other you have the "mtx are not needed to be profitable and they're just milking money". I agree but with a caveat - i don't (and probably all of us) know what are the real costs of development, maintenance, support, marketing, etc. I definitely would like the game to not have any kind of shop. I also agree with the fact that this whole system is just dictated by the fact that companies and investors thrive not on profit, but on MORE AND EVERGROWING profit, which is just unsustainable.

Unfortunately, the only way for things to change is to have people either not buy the game at all or not to partake in MTX. Which we all know it's not going to happen.

I just gave up. I only hope that the whole thing is managed in the right way so it's not an obnoxious, intrusive, lootbox-infested shit tier shop. Again, PoE shop is just done right and they should just copy that.

I spent money on PoE. I bought the tabs because i like my loot to be organized, but i'm not a hoarder so no quad tabs or such. I have a couple xmogs mostly because i spent the spare points i had. So even in that, i just get the small minimum amount of stuff i actually feel i need, as xmogs are cool but totally useless in my mind. I play ARPGs because i love efficiency, not to play doll dress-up.

[RainBoi]

https://twitter.com/SkillUpYT/status...02103212802049

So on top of the paid game and expansions, there will be microtransactions. Shame, my excitement had almost made it through one entire week.

This is IMO only a good thing. The issue with D3 is that they didn't get a steady income that allowed for constant development of the game, so it became stale and pretty much died. With microtransactions, people can buy cosmetic stuff that can fuel developer pay for a constant evolving game.

[lordlosh]

Because the size of the Diablo team is what is actually being invested into the Diablo game game. Otherwise why not compare the entirety of Activision-Bizzard?

I will buy it if it seems interesting enough despite the mtx. If it doesn't I won't. And I won't buy mtx if I do buy the game.

You're replying to me and generalizing me with every "opposite-to-yours" argument simply because I disagree with you. People can buy a game and still criticize a part of the game they dislike. People can choose not to buy a game and criticize a part of the game they dislike, especially if that's what made then not buy the game.

It's not hard to understand that a minority of people want mtx, it's hard to understand why. I haven't seen a single solid pro-mtx reason other than "I want them" or "I like them".

I never said anyone is obligated to sell me whatever in whatever way. Every company can sell a game in whatever way they want. And I can criticize them for it.

I didn't make those claims. We don't know yet what type of cosmetics will be in the store, but we know from experience (looking for instance at the WoW store) that Blizzard's mtx do generally look better than much of the stuff you can get in-game.

No, it's not that simple. I already don't buy them, but I want them not to exist in such a prevalent way in gaming in the first place. It's a plague that has fallen into gaming and there's way too much of it, not because people want it, not because developers want it, but because the big suits want to squeeze as much money as they can from the players. If you want to support that you're free to do it, I just can't respect it and will continue to criticize it as long as it is the norm in the industry.

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Personally I don't think the MTX model is bad by itself, simply that there's just way too much of it, particularly in games which already include other monetization systems.

I think it's bad because their sole purpose is to make more money. They don't improve the games in any way, any buy-to-play game that has cosmetic mtx would be better if those cosmetics were obtainable in-game, and they have contributed to a move in the industry to non-cosmetic mtx.

Let me start from the bottom. This is simply not true. Just look at game like POE.
As far as WoW goes, and that paid cosmetics looks better than the set you can acquire, this is simply not true. I can said the same for a lot of other games.
Absolutely the same for POE. And this is obviously a people preference.
Today gamers are spoiled kids and they find to complain just for everything.
In Apex Legends you have 2 way, to collect "coins" and unlock skins/character or straight up buy them. People complain how grindy was to unlock it, but you can still unlock them right ? I unlock almost everything for 3-4 months of play, which is nothing. But still people complain, just because they are lazy and want easy time.

As far as people that want MTX are minority, this is simply not true, its the majority of people that want and like majority for plenty of reason.

As far as you include only Diablo team, thats not how its work. Blizzard is not only Diablo, and they don`t pay only Diablo team salary, you get it now ?
Its like cutting 90% of a brand like BMW, and to just look at the production of series 3. Its a whole company and its depend on all project across.


And yeah you can buy game and cry about it all you want, no problem with that, but don`t get mad when someone told you a crybaby or spoiled kids then.

If you don`t like something and you mostly complain only, then you are simply are masochist. Games are for joy/fun, pleasure. Not to rage about it 24/7.

And my whole post wasn`t addressed only to you.

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But, the MTX stuff, IMO, is stuff that should be in the game to begin with, or stuff that could be added to an expansion, that will be paid for eventually. So, my cake example is much, much, much better. You go to buy a cake that has icing, sprinkles, etc. on the display version, you go to buy one, and you have to pay extra for all the other stuff.
Regardless, it's taking content, that should be in the game already, or with the next installment, and selling it to you instead. They don't need the sales from MTX to give more updates, if it is a FtP game, then it's understandable, but for a full price AAA game, it's just a dick move.

How old you are, cause your thinking with all due respect su**** !!!
By your logic BMW for example should only sell to 1 price and all extras/options that are optional and you have to pay, and all package as well should not exist, unless its a base game. Same with the engine, they should sell the car with just 1 engine and to just 1 base price, simply because by your logic they make all the stuff before they release the car on the market, so they should not sell the optional stuff as extras, but it should be in the base car.
I hope you start understand how idio**** that sound.

Blizzard can sell you want they want for base game, and then they can include all they want as extras and even charge you for that. No one obligates you to buy their product.

And how dumb really are the people who constantly repeat that POE is free, when you can`t compare the s**** engine, server and s**** gameplay its offer compare to Diablo. Not to mention Blizzard does not invest even 1/100 of what Blizzard invest into the production, in terms of a DEV team to work and the advertise money they give. Not to mention cinematic trailers and so on.

Of course Blizzard will sell their base game, and of course they will want money after that to continuously support the game with new contents.

If you don`t get or don`t like that, just go to POE, and see how free this game is.
For less than a year i spend 200$, and most of that was just for stashes, that you need if you want to really play the game.

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This is IMO only a good thing. The issue with D3 is that they didn't get a steady income that allowed for constant development of the game, so it became stale and pretty much died. With microtransactions, people can buy cosmetic stuff that can fuel developer pay for a constant evolving game.

Plenty of people tried to explain that, but some of this people obviously have chicken brain. And this is the same people who cried a river how Blizzard didn`t implement new things in Diablo 3 and how was in maintenance mode. They think someone is obligated to them to support the game and put resources in a game just for free.
Such people did not even deserve a reply.

[LanToaster]

No they were cut out of the game and sold for more money. If they came a year later has some dlc then i would say you're right but they're not.

How can you be certain of it? Do you know which part of budget flows into which asset?
These things are made as "Extras", and they are meant as such.

As I said earlier:
Games have a budget. E.g. There is a set amount of Money that is aviable for the game.
This Budget is calculated for expected sales. So: If they dont expect to sale some wings or crap, the budged shrinks, and stuff gets Really cut out.

Another Example would be Complaining that your Car doesnt have an A/C installed, they deliberately cut it out, because they have those clearly aviable for other Cars. Just because you are to cheap to pay for the Extras.

Or, that your Hamburger doesnt have Cheese. Clearly the Restaurante has Cheese, but they just want to earn more money, and they cut the Cheese from the Burger to make you buy the slightly more Expensive one.

Obviously this has nothing to do with the fact that Cheese costs money.

[lordlosh]

Even in the POE Forums plenty of POE players said that the only way Diablo be real competitor to POE is through MTX and even the game doesn`t implement good MTX system, the game will die in few years, because you can`t expect support if the company doesn`t sustain/gain money for their true support, no matter how they earn from the selling of the base game and expansions.
No one will support and even give money of their job for a product, that doesn`t give them a profit. You will just move to the next product.
Exactly what happen with Diablo 3.

[LanToaster]

Again how do you know that?

Easy: There is no indication that these Items were ever though or planned otherwise.

[DarkAmbient]

Much smaller company from a different country with different end goals in regards to profitability. It really is an apples to oranges comparison.

So a much smaller company can give away cosmetic items for free but a billion dollar corporation can't. You didn't really help your argument there...

[lordlosh]

Easy: There is no indication that these Items were ever though or planned otherwise.

He doesn`t have logic, he just repeat this, because he can`t say anything, cause he knows he is wrong.
What he state is that if you build something you are obligated to put in the base model/game.
Like saying BMW should put all of their big engine at the base price, same for wheels, for colours, and same for exras/options and package, that if you want sport package or M Package you will pay 10 or 20k more.

His logic state exactly this.

[Kagdar]

The wow team said a few years back, they have a lot of mounts / pets / etc. that artists and stuff have made during less busy times, and they can easily just pull something out of there to add to the shop / achievement / etc.

But the WoW team is fuelled by the monthly cost of the wow subscription. The art team on wow can work full time because we pay them each months to work.

Take example Diablo 3. Sure they made a LOT of money on the sell of boxes. But that money has a limit. At some point the cost of pre-production and post-maintenance will eventually surpass the revenue you get from the boxes' sells.

And like Coldkil said above. Blizz is there to make money and please the shareholders. That's the reality of our time. Money growth is the only real goal. That's the problem of the shareholders mentality.
But as long as they let me have the option to not spend money on mtx that i don't find worthy i'm ok with that. And as long as the cosmetic stuff they release isn't 100% behind MTX i'll be happy. Just l ike in Wow they have mounts on the cash shop, just don't buy them there's plenty of mounts to get for free in game.

[LanToaster]

This was the way everyone did it before in-game stores and MTX were a thing, you got 100% of the games content when you bought it, no paid DLC (except paid expansions), no MTX, no extra money spent, everything that was in the game was able to be earned for free in the game.

Unreasonable maybe, because that's how the business model works now so it should be expected, but it's not at all unjustified, IMO.

The thing is, with MTX, DLCs and stuff, the Budget of the games can Increase, without increasing the price of the base game.

E.g. I much prefer MTX/DLC over spending 20$ more on the BaseGame. (Or the BaseGame beeing made with much less Budget)
The game having MTX or DLC doesnt change the game for me. Because I´m realistic here. I dont and cant know if the game would be any Different with or without it.

Honestly, if I were Blizzard I would just cut any MTX related stuff from the game, cut the Budged and cut any features/content that would be made with the Additional Income they expected from the MTX, and then make a Post with numbers what these People actually loose.

The AH thing you always bring up for Diablo 3. Does anyone actually have the brain capacity to see that there were alot of Changes coming along with the AuctionHouse removal?
These things made the game infinitely more fun. Even if the AuctionHouse were still present in the game, that wouldnt change a damn thing.
Because:
1. You were never able to Buy/Sell Legendaries on the AH
2. The game literally revolves around Legendaries.

So, what made the game better?
The Removal of Auctionhouses, or the change to make Legendaries and Sets actually awesome?

[lordlosh]

Ah and btw, POE team doesn`t even want to make a good trade system, their trade su**** so much, more than 60 pages thread that people complain about it. Not only that, they refuse to implement new engine and to fix their servers, as well as you can`t customize your character and to even choice a gender, and more than 50 pages of people crying how sh*** POE gameplay is, and we are in 2019. You get that why this game is supposedly "free" ?
And their revenue is around 15-20 million per year, thanks to MTX, thats how they can support the game and put some new content, but still they can`t invest into things that are crucial for a game in 2019.

If they make POE 2 with solid engine, fix their servers and invest heavy into the game, like Blizzard do, they will charge you for base game, and they 100% will still have MTX in the game, so they can continuously support the game and just put it in maintenance and the game to die in a year.

[LanToaster]

For instance, if you want more confortable seats, or a different color you can pay more, for sure. But you're not just paying for an arbitrary option. You're paying for different materials, or for a more limited run of the car model which didn't have as many units produced, or even for a custom painting job or installation of non-standard features.

You know, 3D models are not free either? And the people operating the Servers are also not free. And the Servers are ALSO not free.

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If they stopped just because of that then i'm glad it didn't get more support. Most of the money from a cash shop doesn't go back into the game. It goes to the higher up.

To Quote you:

You have no way of knowing how much, ...

... money will go back into the game.

Yes but you play poorly. I know this because it's what the games industry does. They need to please shareholders by making more money then they can make. So they put in cash shops to do so. Then they fail because they need to make more money then is possible to make.

Back your claim up with verfied numbers.
How much % of the Revenue generated by the MTX in D4 goes to which department, and how much % of that is Profit?

Back in my day, if you bought a video game, you'd actually get a completed video game. But now-a-days, they sell you like 40% of a game for full price, then sell you the rest under dlc / mtx.

Name one game that only sold 40% of the game.

Guess what: You dont decide when a product is finished. Or which Content a game is going to have.

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Just take a look at what cosmetics are available in D3 in western side compared to what is available in D3 china. They have way more wings and pets that we do. Because they have MTX. Probably that the company that manage D3 in China hired a bunch of artists on their team just to add those MTX and make more money.

OUTRAGOUS! I paid 60$ 7 years ago, I´m Entitled to everything they do.

[Kumorii]

You do realize that cosmetics in PoE make that game have a constant supply of new content every 3 months, right?

While I understand PoE is FREE, the question is... do you want regular content for D4, or are you happy with very little? As far as I'm concerned if we get more content and the cost is optional cosmetics, who the fuck cares? Hopefully they have a good amount of cool looking sets, though, and we don't all look like total garbage as a way to entice people to buy them.

Fact is, paying for D4 and not having to pay for any cosmetics, while gaining the benefit of a steady supply of updates far outweighs what happened to D3. So accept it or move on.

I don't get how people still don't get this...
People expect free content for some reason. However, if you do like free content I don't mind it being funded by people who buy cosmetics... works like a charm in most games. I get new content for free that's payed for by others. -Shrug-

Overwatch have given me tons of new heroes and maps and I've spent only 40 bucks on the game. People have this idea that after you buy the base game developers should work for free for a couple of years and give you more stuff...

[lordlosh]

LanToaster i think we made our point pretty clear and if one have brain they will accept it, because this is the reality and the truth.
I get enough of the crying i`m done with this thread for good.
Some spoiled kids can cry all they want, MTX will be the game and most people are happy with it.

[LanToaster]

The wow team said a few years back, they have a lot of mounts / pets / etc. that artists and stuff have made during less busy times, and they can easily just pull something out of there to add to the shop / achievement / etc.

If you are selling a game at full price, I expect to get EVERYTHING with the game if I choose to buy it, not bits cut out and sold back to me. If expansions and stuff are planned: things people make, and sell, between the initial launch of the game and the expac, well, that is something that could have been put into the expac to be earned.
Popular AAA titles, that sell at full price, will make A LOT of money and will probably cover the cost of making it a few times over. There is no need for companies to be greedy and try get that little bit more from you. Let's assume D4 will sell about the same as D3 (around 30mil copies), that alone is $1.8billion USD, at 60USD per copy.

Do you know that the Chef in a Restaurent also does things unrelated to the Dish you ordered while it is less busy.
Do you expect to get these things for free also?

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LanToaster i think we made our point pretty clear and if one have brain they will accept it, because this is the reality and the truth.
I get enough of the crying i`m done with this thread for good.
Some spoiled kids can cry all they want, MTX will be the game and most people are happy with it.

Yea, I´m about done now with this Topic.

Its just that that part of the Community is so damn Infuriating.
I accidentally scrolled down to the Comments on PatchNotes, and all the QQ about no Free Content. And the whining that D3 doesnt get any worthwile development.

Game doesnt make any Money -> People whine about no Development put into it.
Game gets MTX for ongoing Revenue -> People whine about game wanting money to continue Development.

[Mauzi92]

Cool...So Ill be walking around in ratty linen underpants and a metal bucket on my head.
Why...

In any case, saying "just cosmetics" nowadays is like that guy who says "just the tip". Before you know it, you are screwed. I bet my neck you will be able to buy power or certain QoL features only in the shop. Maybe not now, or at launch. But its going to be there.
Most likely, improve your chances of upgrading a legendary gem by 50% forever! 500 coins in the shop. Buy 400 coins for 1€

i remember when people said the same thing about WoW's MTX. They were right finally, right? Right? WoW does have MTX where you can buy gear and shit, RIGHT?