All the progress and 13+years goes down the toilet

[Tolfor]

Yoru opinion. Many of us disagree with you.

Okay. And that's your opinion, and many of us disagree with you. Now that we've helpfully established the existence of subjectivity, what was your actual argument?

[Katchii]

It was an insult no matter how much you try to spin it. Nice hypocrisy.

It wasn't a personal insult was the point, I never said it wasn't an insult.

[Healing Rain]

Blizzard is catering to the speedrunning types who rush through a game instead of taking their time and enjoying a game by just making WoW about endgame.. It's also why they created Pathfinder.

[Ange]

Blizzard is catering to the speedrunning types who rush through a game instead of taking their time and enjoying a game by just making WoW about endgame..

The paying regular subs are talking with money. If the classic model was better, we would have not seen the 80% decline in subs.

Please dont forget, WoW is not a single player game. You either like the community and the current gaming features or you don't. Many other failed MMOs tell you the story why short therm casual players cant sustain endless development models.

[Nevcairiel]

Blizzard is catering to the speedrunning types who rush through a game instead of taking their time and enjoying a game by just making WoW about endgame.. It's also why they created Pathfinder.

In fact, the new leveling design in Shadowlands lets you enjoy leveling far more, since you can actually play a coherent story line, and are not forced to jump through half-done zones all the time or otherwise get literally no experience anymore.

This is a great step towards enjoying leveling.

PS:
If they wanted to cater exclusively to the speedrunning/rush type of people, they would in fact remove Pathfinder and hand out flying much earlier, like they did in eg. wrath, cata, mop. Pathfinder directly goes against the rush mentality by *delaying* flying, a mechanic that makes playing the game much easier and faster.

[Xilurm]

I think you clearly didnt wanted to understand me:
- pre-patch of SL: your level gets squished to 50 and in SL you can level to 60
- pre-patch of 1st xpac after SL: your level gets squished to 50 and in 1st xpac after SL you can level to 60
- pre-patch of 2nd xpac after SL: your level gets squished to 50 and in 2nd xpac after SL you can level to 60
.
.
.

if YOU like that, fine. I am not happy about that....

I doubt that. It makes more sense if we keep progressing to 100 and get a squish after that again. So in about 5 expansions. That's 10 years.

[MrLachyG]

It's not about power.

then what is it about? squishing 120 down to 50 means that the levelling process is shorter, more rewarding and just better all around. you won't be losing any achievements, all the old stuff you did is still valid. enlighten us as to why you actually disagree with it?

[Kaver]

How can you call leveling for progression. Leveling is the most trivial part of WoW. Most players have 10+ level 120 character and getting to max level is not an achievement at all. You lose nothing of value. There is absolutely no prestrige in having a max level character in WoW.

[Augusta138]

How can you call leveling for progression. Leveling is the most trivial part of WoW. Most players have 10+ level 120 character and getting to max level is not an achievement at all. You lose nothing of value. There is absolutely no prestrige in having a max level character in WoW.

Exactly this.

Leveling accounts for what? merely a few days if you always kept up with the game.
When talking about actually playing the game, it actually happens @ max level.

Time spend on leveling is less than 5% of gametime i reckon for most of us, if not less.

[Mermeoth]

Honestly. All progress goes to toilet every expansion. Actually last few expansions most of your progress goes to toilet every patch.
However you are always left with titles, mounts, cosmetics and memories.

[cuafpr]

the writing was on the wall for it.. I don't like either and wish they would have went level to 120 go to shadow land and then get "soul levels" to start a new system vs what they did. but this was easier and to be fair likely better for new players to not feel so far behind.

[rrayy]

then what is it about? squishing 120 down to 50 means that the levelling process is shorter, more rewarding and just better all around. you won't be losing any achievements, all the old stuff you did is still valid. enlighten us as to why you actually disagree with it?

I already stated why I disagree with it. It is the removal of something that I earned. And if they were so worried about leeling taking too long they shouldn't have nerfed it to begin with during 7.3.5 and should have just sped leveling up from 1-120. All you have to to is require the same amount of XP from 1-120 as you would 1-60. Leveling is no longer daunting and you aren't taking anything away from anyone.

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How can you call leveling for progression. Leveling is the most trivial part of WoW. Most players have 10+ level 120 character and getting to max level is not an achievement at all. You lose nothing of value. There is absolutely no prestrige in having a max level character in WoW.

Because it is the best representation of the years I have played the game. Now I am going backwards because Blizzard took the lazy way out of making leveling rewarding.

[Katchii]

I already stated why I disagree with it. It is the removal of something that I earned. And if they were so worried about leeling taking too long they shouldn't have nerfed it to begin with during 7.3.5 and should have just sped leveling up from 1-120. All you have to to is require the same amount of XP from 1-120 as you would 1-60. Leveling is no longer daunting and you aren't taking anything away from anyone.

They're not removing anything though, they're shrinking the scale. Level 50 = level 120, so everything you earned is still intact.

What is it you feel like you're losing?

Because it is the best representation of the years I have played the game. Now I am going backwards because Blizzard took the lazy way out of making leveling rewarding.

I'm still not able to wrap my head around this argument. How did they take the lazy way? This took a shit load of work for them to implement.

How are you going backwards? As said before, they're just shrinking the scale. The time and effort you spent getting to level 120 isn't lost, it's just being translated to a different scale. Think Fahrenheit vs Celsius... the temperature they measure is the exact same, one just uses a different scale than the other and report in bigger numbers than the other. We're just going from the Fahrenheit scale to the Celsius scale.

[Great Destiny Man]

This topic brings back painful memories of when players were complaining about AK in BfA "stealing" AP from the player. People really seem to have an emotional attachment to raw numbers that genuinely confuse me.

[rrayy]

They're not removing anything though, they're shrinking the scale. Level 50 = level 120, so everything you earned is still intact.

What is it you feel like you're losing?



I'm still not able to wrap my head around this argument. How did they take the lazy way? This took a shit load of work for them to implement.

How are you going backwards? As said before, they're just shrinking the scale. The time and effort you spent getting to level 120 isn't lost, it's just being translated to a different scale. Think Fahrenheit vs Celsius... the temperature they measure is the exact same, one just uses a different scale than the other and report in bigger numbers than the other. We're just going from the Fahrenheit scale to the Celsius scale.

1. It's the lazy way becausae all they are doing is re-arranging what they already have instead of making the effort of being creative in making the current leveling more rewarding.

2.Going between Fahrenheit and Celsius isn't the same as you are going between two completely different scales. Blizzard is using the exact same scale, just removing 70 levels. You remove nothing going between two completely different scales.

[Misuteri]

At some point leveling becomes a chore. Even leveling a few expansions ago, MOP, 1-60 was tough, 70-80 was just awful. I hate WOTLK 5 man leveling dungeons more than I can describe. You could do Cataclysm in one zone. But... it was ALL boring, all been there done that.

They had to change leveling and being able to pick a favorite expansion/zone to do it in with a squish is pretty damn incredible.

Big fan of the idea, I hope the reality matches the intent.

[Mayia]

Ah I think you've misunderstood.

Think of levels as markers of history. I remember questing in Zangarmarsh with my wife at the time at level 61, will 61 be in Shadowlands? Fuck no. It's gone, as are all moments in history I remember over 60



Don't think of progress in the form of WarcraftLogs, think of your own personal progress as a player.


Having said all this though it doesn't fucking matter, it's going to happen.

uh, the memories you make will still be there, and it wont connect to a number but that number is already gone you can't revisit 61 on any character.. but you can revisit those places.. and if they do tbc servers you'll be able to revisit it exactly as it was before.

but its a similar complaint to having the house you grew up in changed or torn down/re-built it sucks but it lives on in your mind... and this isnt even that.. this is being upset the road your childhood house was on is being changed. :P

[niil945]

1. It's the lazy way becausae all they are doing is re-arranging what they already have instead of making the effort of being creative in making the current leveling more rewarding.

2.Going between Fahrenheit and Celsius isn't the same as you are going between two completely different scales. Blizzard is using the exact same scale, just removing 70 levels. You remove nothing going between two completely different scales.

What's the boiling point of water on each scale? What's the level you get X ability in each system? They're equivalent. Now that we've established how scales work like kids learn in elementary school maybe you can join us for an adult conversation.

[Kaver]

Because it is the best representation of the years I have played the game. Now I am going backwards because Blizzard took the lazy way out of making leveling rewarding.

I understand that you personally see leveling numbers as progression, but frankly I don't care one bit about that. It's just too bad for you. Sorry.

Most people see leveling as a completely trivial process that just delays you a little bit from playing the end-game.

And I cannot see how leveling can be made rewarding again. In the past, the reward from leveling was getting a max level character which was prestigeful to have. But it's not anymore. I have 15+ max level characters (most players have multiple max-level characters) and there is no prestige in that. Leveling is just a completely pointless process that adds no value to the game.. in my opinion of course. But I know a lot of people share that opinion and Blizzard most of the time base their decisions on the opinion of the majority.

Personally I would like them to completely remove leveling and find a new creative way to use the zones of Azeroth. In my opinion, progression only starts once you hit max level.

Notice that I have used the phrase "in my opinion" a lot so you're no going to think that I see it as objective facts. I know you care a lot about that.

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1. It's the lazy way becausae all they are doing is re-arranging what they already have instead of making the effort of being creative in making the current leveling more rewarding.

Just out of curiosity..

How would you make leveling more rewarding?

What do you see as the reward of leveling?

If you define this, then you give people a chance to see if they agree or disagree with you.

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Blizzard is using the exact same scale, just removing 70 levels

Mate you're not helping yourself here.

[Will]

It's the lazy way becausae all they are doing is re-arranging what they already have instead of making the effort of being creative in making the current leveling more rewarding.

Right, because 130 levels worth of a shit, disjointed levelling experience full of plot holes is going to look GREAT to a new player.

Come on, man, it's perfectly obvious why they're changing the levelling experience. It's a bloated mess that everyone skips anyway with their boost, and the new players who don't skip it experience the hot pile of garbage it's become over the years. This re-work is LONG overdue, so how dare you use it to accuse Blizzard of being lazy?

If you've got a leak, don't put a temporary patch on it. Replace the entire pipe.