Kick + deserter debuff, why ?

[Huntaer]

So I was in this timewalking dungeon, as a tank, and some rogue decided to pull a second group. We wiped and i was instantly removed from the group. Fine whatever, I'll go find a new one. But no, there's a dungeon deserter debuff. Why ?

[melzas]

Because if you get kicked early during the dungeon, you get the deserter debuff.

That way people can't abuse it. For instance: tank queues for random dungeon, gets something he doesn't like/need, then proceeds to afk until team kicks him out so that he doesn't get deserter and can queue up for another one.

[Throwme]

Most likely to prevent people using Random Dungeon to act like an idiot and intentionally get kicked because they do not wish to do that specific dungeon that they got put into. They deserve a debuff. Unfortunately, it hits the innocent ones too, but there are far more of the idiots than the innocents, so I am happy with it.

[Huntaer]

I see. That makes sense.

That way people can't abuse it.

And that's where this mechanic hits itself in the face.

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Most likely to prevent people using Random Dungeon to act like an idiot and intentionally get kicked because they do not wish to do that specific dungeon that they got put into. They deserve a debuff. Unfortunately, it hits the innocent ones too, but there are far more of the idiots than the innocents, so I am happy with it.

Yeah I guess so.

[Firefall]

Because if you get kicked early during the dungeon, you get the deserter debuff.

That way people can't abuse it. For instance: tank queues for random dungeon, gets something he doesn't like/need, then proceeds to afk until team kicks him out so that he doesn't get deserter and can queue up for another one.

Unfortunately this, yeah. Basically the inevitability of people abusing it forces them to make it worse for everyone and enable other lesser evils to take place.

[Twdft]

Yeah I guess so.

It was changed some time back. Earlier it was you couldn't get kicked at all in the first 15 minutes. Whole dungeons took only 10 minutes back then ... too many assholes queued up and went afk right at the start.

Now you can get kicked right after the first boss is dead or if you wipe before first boss. After first boss you don't get deserter debuff, but before it you do.

They kicked the wrong guy, forget it and move on

[TheRevenantHero]

Because if you get kicked early during the dungeon, you get the deserter debuff.

That way people can't abuse it. For instance: tank queues for random dungeon, gets something he doesn't like/need, then proceeds to afk until team kicks him out so that he doesn't get deserter and can queue up for another one.

Except more often than not, I see people abusing it to troll or grief. It happens A LOT in island expeditions. You're a healing spec in islands? Time to kick you just because I think you're worthless and give you a debuff.

[Zyky]

So I was in this timewalking dungeon, as a tank, and some rogue decided to pull a second group. We wiped and i was instantly removed from the group. Fine whatever, I'll go find a new one. But no, there's a dungeon deserter debuff. Why ?

Blizzard said about 2-3 years ago that they knew it was an outdated kick system and that they have to fix it. They just haven't.

[munkeyinorbit]

I went on a WotLK private server and that behaviour was quite common. The tank would be like "kick me" and I would be like "leave. We are not going to kick you. Do the dungeon or get deserter" and I would say to the dps "do U want to spend another 20 mins waiting while a tank queued?" Tank always stayed then.

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Except more often than not, I see people abusing it to troll or grief. It happens A LOT in island expeditions. You're a healing spec in islands? Time to kick you just because I think you're worthless and give you a debuff.

It's a group decision. If you want to queue as the wrong spec that is on you, not other people. You deserve deserter for trying to get an unsolicited carry.

[Shaetha]

I went on a WotLK private server and that behaviour was quite common. The tank would be like "kick me" and I would be like "leave. We are not going to kick you. Do the dungeon or get deserter" and I would say to the dps "do U want to spend another 20 mins waiting while a tank queued?" Tank always stayed then.

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It's a group decision. If you want to queue as the wrong spec that is on you, not other people. You deserve deserter for trying to get an unsolicited carry.

This right here is what happens when people that never learned how to socialize are forced to do so.

[TheRevenantHero]

I went on a WotLK private server and that behaviour was quite common. The tank would be like "kick me" and I would be like "leave. We are not going to kick you. Do the dungeon or get deserter" and I would say to the dps "do U want to spend another 20 mins waiting while a tank queued?" Tank always stayed then.

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It's a group decision. If you want to queue as the wrong spec that is on you, not other people. You deserve deserter for trying to get an unsolicited carry.

If you think someone in healing spec in an island expedition is just there for a carry, then you're the toxic part of the community I was referencing.

[Uko]

Blame the tanks who see a dungeon they dont like and are like just kick me to try and avoid the deserter. So they added it to kicks.

[TwoMana]

If you think someone in healing spec in an island expedition is just there for a carry, then you're the toxic part of the community I was referencing.

There's absolutely no reason for anyone to ever queue to any island as a healer. The fact that they do means they don't respect the time and effort the other two members are putting in to make the instance successful. It is disrespectful. Every healer has a dps off-spec, be nice and switch before you queue.

[StillMcfuu]

Blizzard said about 2-3 years ago that they knew it was an outdated kick system and that they have to fix it. They just haven't.

They probably tried to think of ways to fix it, but there really isn't a good way. Occasionally people get caught up in it, I've had the situation where you join a raid group and you are the "26th" person and it immediately removes you from group and I've gotten the Deserter Debuff from that. There are other situations where the Deserter debuff just doesn't do it's job. Best I can suggest is report the situation as a bug so they have record of the situations.

[TheRevenantHero]

There's absolutely no reason for anyone to ever queue to any island as a healer. The fact that they do means they don't respect the time and effort the other two members are putting in to make the instance successful. It is disrespectful. Every healer has a dps off-spec, be nice and switch before you queue.

If you think an island can't be completed with a healer then you're just an impatient jerk. Healers can do just fine in a healing spec. Every healer I've gotten islands with pulled their weight just fine. Normal and heroic islands are easy. It doesn't matter what spec you are.

[TwoMana]

If you think an island can't be completed with a healer then you're just an impatient jerk. Healers can do just fine in a healing spec. Every healer I've gotten islands with pulled their weight just fine. Normal and heroic islands are easy. It doesn't matter what spec you are.

Of course it can be completed. All islands can be completed with eyes shut. That's not what I said.
But if you queue in as healer, you are wasting everyones time doing crappy healer-pretend-dps.

That's disrespectful when you could just by a simple click, switch to your actual DPS spec and help out to complete the run faster

[TheRevenantHero]

Of course it can be completed. All islands can be completed with eyes shut. That's not what I said.
But if you queue in as healer, you are wasting everyones time doing crappy healer-pretend-dps.

That's disrespectful when you could just by a simple click, switch to your actual DPS spec and help out to complete the run faster

So basically everyone has to play the game how YOU want them to play or they're disrespectful.

[Pandragon]

Because if you get kicked early during the dungeon, you get the deserter debuff.

That way people can't abuse it. For instance: tank queues for random dungeon, gets something he doesn't like/need, then proceeds to afk until team kicks him out so that he doesn't get deserter and can queue up for another one.

That's exactly why. If memory serves people were doing that and they changed it in Cata I think. And my response was "oh good, now people can get kicked cause someone doesn't like them and get a 30 mins debuff".

[arkanon]

They probably tried to think of ways to fix it, but there really isn't a good way. Occasionally people get caught up in it, I've had the situation where you join a raid group and you are the "26th" person and it immediately removes you from group and I've gotten the Deserter Debuff from that. There are other situations where the Deserter debuff just doesn't do it's job. Best I can suggest is report the situation as a bug so they have record of the situations.

This basically - its far from a perfect system, but its the best they have. The original issue was dps queuing with a tank/healer friend to get a quick queue, then the tank/healer would leave straight away. They have had to make so many different systems to account for the lowest types of players.

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If you think an island can't be completed with a healer then you're just an impatient jerk. Healers can do just fine in a healing spec. Every healer I've gotten islands with pulled their weight just fine. Normal and heroic islands are easy. It doesn't matter what spec you are.

IIRC there is actually a certain item from the vendor that makes healers extremely op in IE. I havnt done any for a very long time though, so it might have changed. Something about converting healing into huge damage.

[TwoMana]

So basically everyone has to play the game how YOU want them to play or they're disrespectful.

Ah, the irony? You want to force everyone to carry you through content, because you just can't be arsed to have common courtesy to switch to a useful spec and contribute. And when pointed out, you think everyone else is wrong. Playing in tank spec is fine. Playing DPS spec is fine. As a healer you don't bring anything at all to Islands and every healing class has a DPS spec readily available.