Don't "seasons" kinda cancel the age old "year long raid tier" idea?

[Gaidax]

BFA suffered greatly from being sort of "filler" expansion and it was unlucky to be released right after Legion which was both stellar, had us have a final confrontation with iconic Warcraft "bad guys" faction and took a whole more time to bake in the oven.

In it's own right BFA is not bad, especially after 8.2 which all in all was a great patch and IMO 8.3 will be pretty good as well, especially considering it's N'zoth hypers.

Honestly, one can be salty as fuck about BFA, WoW or Blizzard, but really 8.2 was one of the best patches in history of WoW hands down. Not THE best, but certainly one of the meatier and better ones.

[Daedius]

They only called them seasons because its popular to do that and theres no tier sets

Bloody hate seasonal crap that removes rewards... such a cheap ploy.

[Zyky]

BFA suffered greatly from being sort of "filler" expansion and it was unlucky to be released right after Legion which was both stellar, had us have a final confrontation with iconic Warcraft "bad guys" faction and took a whole more time to bake in the oven.

In it's own right BFA is not bad, especially after 8.2 which all in all was a great patch and IMO 8.3 will be pretty good as well, especially considering it's N'zoth hypers.

Honestly, one can be salty as fuck about BFA, WoW or Blizzard, but really 8.2 was one of the best patches in history of WoW hands down. Not THE best, but certainly one of the meatier and better ones.

How can you even say that? lol 8.2 brought no new features to the game(a zone is not a feature), it made class balance worse, and brought one of the most obnoxious raid tiers into existence.

[Zyky]

ok boomer, giving back a frostbolt to fire mages is not 'revolutionary class changes'

It's hilarious that people think "ok boomer" is an insult worth saying., but if that's literally your only take away from the entire post I made, guess you actually know how wrong you are.

[Gaidax]

How can you even say that? lol 8.2 brought no new features to the game(a zone is not a feature), it made class balance worse, and brought one of the most obnoxious raid tiers into existence.

How can I say what? 8.2 was a great patch, it brought 2 great zones people stormed hard, because they were filled with stuff to do for everyone. It was one of the biggest patches ever released.

You can be salty all you like but that's truth there.

[CrawlFromThePit]

I'm seeing a lot of people assuming that, because of some intuition of "early development" for Shadowlands at Blizzcon, we're somehow doomed to a late 2020 release and not the usual late august to early october window that's become (in my opinion, intentionally) the standard for the last two expansions.

While I'm sure there are a lot of good reasons for or against this viewpoint, the assumption I've had all along is that the real bullet in the argument is how much they have pushed these all-encompassing "seasons" as the branding for the content rollout cadence. The idea being that WoW has and must(?) reset its power curve every 6 months with an X.Y patch so every season is equally worth re-subbing for as it relates to efficiently rewarding power resets. It's been my assumption that the reasons every patch and subsequent raid-a-month-later moment in BFA has felt a bit "later" is to lock that 6 month window down to even remain true between 8.3 and 9.0.

Doesn't a seasonal branding kind of fit in with the idea that the answer to "why not just wait for the last patch because that's when *everything* will be out" is "even the expansion tail is only 6 months so don't do that, play now" as a purely marketing decision? Doesn't an expansion tail of 9 months or so kind of... break that whole idea?

I just don't see how a seasonal branding works when one season is 1.5x longer than the others. The sense of intentional FOMO that comes with this approach is just evaporated if we're back to "the smart game is to sub at X.3."

Am I missing something? How does seasonal cadence branding work with a prediction of "no shadowlands until november-december?"

Seasonal only means that things like rankings and progress are split into a set amount of time instead of going on forever. Seasons have had different timing in the past and there nothing logically forcing seasons to always have the same length. It doesn't matter in any way if seasons go on for different amounts of time.

[bozoben]

I have a feeling that Alpha won't even start until March/April.
I can see this next patch going for a good 8-10 months easy if we use any other expansion as evidence.

[Gaidax]

I think 10-11 months from now or so is a good bet. They will toss some pre-expansion thing like 2 months before, so it won't be that horrible, but still plenty.

[Zyky]

How can I say what? 8.2 was a great patch, it brought 2 great zones people stormed hard, because they were filled with stuff to do for everyone. It was one of the biggest patches ever released.

You can be salty all you like but that's truth there.

It's not the truth lol. It brought 2 very lackluster, visually unappealing zones. People didn't want to do more WQs, they were forced to because of neck essences. People didn't want a 90 day grind to get followers up to rank 30 each. People didn't want a new massive grind to level up gear. It wasn't "stormed" because it was great, fun, and enjoyable; it was stormed because the content was forced if you wanted to progress in any aspect of the game. That's the fact, the patch is not "great" and the zones aren't "great".

[themaster24]

It brought 2 very lackluster, visually unappealing zones.

Both of those are opinions, not facts either.

People didn't want to do more WQs, they were forced to because of neck essences.

You aren't forced to WQ's for essences. You could never touch WQ's and still have access to several great essences. You can also unlock all the essence slots without needing to do WQ, especially thanks to AK. Yes, WQ can make it easier, but you certainly don't HAVE to do them.

People didn't want a 90 day grind to get followers up to rank 30 each.

A.) No one needs rank 30. Rank 30 provides literally 0 power upgrade. 20 is the cap for power. B.) The timing for 20/30 is considerably cut down by anyone spending even a few minutes to get Bark from the rare ancients every week. Not to mention if you did Mrrl when he had XP items up, or just casually did anything in Nazjatar and got xp items.

People didn't want a new massive grind to level up gear.

I'm sorry, but if this is a complaint about Benthic gear, than there's a divide on it. I know there were Min-Maxers that didn't like this non-raid gear providing a marginal dps increase in raids, but felt compelled to get 425 socketed specific benthic pieces for bleeding edge progression. I would wager most players, however, didn't go out of their to "grind" manapearls expressly to upgrade their Benthic gear. It just happened naturally.

It wasn't "stormed" because it was great, fun, and enjoyable; it was stormed because the content was forced if you wanted to progress in any aspect of the game.

Let's be clear, new content is stormed because it's new content. New content will always be stormed, as people grow tired with old content. However, Nazjatar and Mechagon offered players a bit more agency than the rest of the xpac. Previously, all you could really do, within your control, was grind AP. You couldn't really make any other meaningful progression outside of the standard reset. Now you could, if you so chose, attempt to collect more recipes for Pascal, get Pascal mats to try and get a nice ring or trinket, get prismatic crystal to feed all the jelly pets everyday, etc. This typically results in higher overall player engagement, as they feel their efforts beyond the minimum are appropriately rewarded.

That's the fact, the patch is not "great" and the zones aren't "great".

Once again, that's like, your opinion man. I personally think it was a great patch, and I loved Mechagon and Nazjatar. I love them less now because I'm done with them, but I thoroughly enjoyed the patch and the zones as I actively played through them. Like your point, though, that's just my opinion.

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Sorry but another two zones with glorified WQs in them is not good content.

Don't even try and claim Nazjatar wasn't another bog standard patch zone.

It honestly sounds like you just hate WQ's, and any new zone will have some semblance of WQ's at this point, so how would new zones appease you? Mechagon was much more freeform than other zones. Sure, it had dailies, and the one WQ every day, but besides that, most of the progression within Mechagon was tied to your direct efforts. If you are referring to it's rotating dailies as the glorified WQ's, then what would have be done? Since BC this game has always had some sort of daily repeatable content, they just now happen to be in the form of WQ's, which are just dailies you don't have to pick up or turn in.

[Marrilaife]

You aren't forced to WQ's for essences. You could never touch WQ's and still have access to several great essences.

Nope, not even close. Tell me how do you get rustbolt resistance essence without actually doing dailies and wqs.

You have access to "great" essences? More like sub-par ones because you can't get the good ones. I'm forever stuck not having 1 of my bis minors because it requires rated pvp... for a tank essence. Blizz can seriously fuck off, after they nerfed tanks in arenas to complete unplayability. What did they expect, grind gear and essences for dps spec just so I can do pvp that I hate to get the relic for the spec and content I actually enjoy?

It wouldn't be hard if you could get essences from multiple sources so you would get alternative pathways... Not a raider? Hates WQs? Has allergy to islands? No problem, you can skip content X by doing more of content Y.

Nope, not allowed. Why should people have fun in content they like when they can be coaxed to do stupid chores instead.

[themaster24]

Do you honestly not believe it's time for something new? Something better?

If your answer to why there is shit boring content in brand new zones in 2019 is - "It's always been this way", then I really don't know what to tell you.

Of course I would love to a new, better evolution of the daily content. The first iteration was simple dailies, then it was WQ. I'd argue that WQ are a far superior system than plain dailies were, but they aren't super exciting either. Pretty much anything new will hit that point too, though. It's pretty difficulty to implement a daily system that will eventually not grow stale and tiresome.

Mechagon was the closest I think they've come to making some sort of change in this direction. It opened the world to you, and let you do whatever you want. All the best rewards, outside of the quest chain mount and the trinket, come from you going out and exploring. All the dailies that exist give incredibly minor rewards that can be better obtained by just doing your own thing in the zone. Even this, too, dries up once you have obtained all the extrinsic rewards Mechagon has to offer that interest you. This dilemma is why Blizz implemented Paragon Caches later on in Legion.

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Nope, not even close. Tell me how do you get rustbolt resistance essence without actually doing dailies and wqs.

You have access to "great" essences? More like sub-par ones because you can't get the good ones. I'm forever stuck not having 1 of my bis minors because it requires rated pvp... for a tank essence. Blizz can seriously fuck off, after they nerfed tanks in arenas to complete unplayability. What did they expect, grind gear and essences for dps spec just so I can do pvp that I hate to get the relic for the spec and content I actually enjoy?

It wouldn't be hard if you could get essences from multiple sources so you would get alternative pathways... Not a raider? Hates WQs? Has allergy to islands? No problem, you can skip content X by doing more of content Y.

Nope, not allowed. Why should people have fun in content they like when they can be coaxed to do stupid chores instead.

Mechagon's "WQ" is a joke, and can hardly be considered a WQ. It is literally an afterthought of the zone. It will always be 1 of 3 things: Open 6 Chests (which you would do naturally while playing), Kill 3 rares (which you would do naturally while playing), or just do things in Mechagon. You get considerably more rep from just that one source than doing all the dailies available on any given day. You can get plenty of rep by going to Mechagon, not picking up a daily and just running around. I know plenty of people who only went to Mehcagon to get the 800+ rep from it's "WQ" each day and got plenty of rep and mats for what they needed.

Yes, you still have access to great essences, even if your missing C&S as a tank. Pretty much every list I've seen for tanks puts it at 2/3 best minor essence, but, as it's tanking, I'd wager 4/5 would still be damn good in that 2nd minor slot. I never said you would have access to "THE BEST" essences. For some specs/builds, the best essences could be from simple sources (Lucid Dreams, Worldvein). I've only seen one spec (I'm sure there's maybe 1-2 or others), where their BiS major is like 50% better than the next closest one. Overall, there is a huge swath of essences, both major and minor, that are pretty close to each other.

I don't disagree, I'd love to see options open up that don't FORCE you to PvP/PvE, at some higher cost by obtaining it from the alternative source. But I don't feel that, at least for a short time, having some things be tied behind certain sources to be terrible. If it's for a small window, it rewards those who do that content, but should eventually open up to allow you to get them from other means. Say, after a month or so, you can by the honor essence ranks for increasing amounts of TR or another currency and maybe Reliquaries could be purchased for marks of honor.

[Zyky]

You aren't forced to WQ's for essences. You could never touch WQ's and still have access to several great essences. You can also unlock all the essence slots without needing to do WQ, especially thanks to AK. Yes, WQ can make it easier, but you certainly don't HAVE to do them.

But you are, Lucid Dreams requires you to do daily quests every. single. day. Lucid dreams Major and Minor are huge increases for several specs. If you want to reach a certain point with your neck level you do have to invest in doing WQs, you will never reach 67-70 without an insane amount of time spamming Islands(if you want the only alternative to reliable AP acquisition).

A.) No one needs rank 30. Rank 30 provides literally 0 power upgrade. 20 is the cap for power. B.) The timing for 20/30 is considerably cut down by anyone spending even a few minutes to get Bark from the rare ancients every week. Not to mention if you did Mrrl when he had XP items up, or just casually did anything in Nazjatar and got xp items.

You're the one who claimed "content for everyone", so don't go blathering out bullshit that goes against what your original argument was, stick to one point or fuck off.

I'm sorry, but if this is a complaint about Benthic gear, than there's a divide on it. I know there were Min-Maxers that didn't like this non-raid gear providing a marginal dps increase in raids, but felt compelled to get 425 socketed specific benthic pieces for bleeding edge progression. I would wager most players, however, didn't go out of their to "grind" manapearls expressly to upgrade their Benthic gear. It just happened naturally.

This has nothing to do with getting 425 socket specific benthic pieces. Although that is a huge problem with the system. It's about those players that frequently make posts about how they don't want to do M+ or Raids, but still want decent gear. There is no "natural" feeling progression when you need over 300 pearls per slot to upgrade to 425. Again if you're going to claim "content for all" stick to the same story to at least look consistent.

Let's be clear, new content is stormed because it's new content. New content will always be stormed, as people grow tired with old content. However, Nazjatar and Mechagon offered players a bit more agency than the rest of the xpac. Previously, all you could really do, within your control, was grind AP. You couldn't really make any other meaningful progression outside of the standard reset. Now you could, if you so chose, attempt to collect more recipes for Pascal, get Pascal mats to try and get a nice ring or trinket, get prismatic crystal to feed all the jelly pets everyday, etc. This typically results in higher overall player engagement, as they feel their efforts beyond the minimum are appropriately rewarded.

As with every expansion launch? Not sure what bullshit you're trying to push here lol. Every expansion since Mists of Pandaria added a new zone to go with the second raid 'tier' of an expansion. Let's get one thing straight here, Dazar'alor was the first tier of this expansion. Uldir was the intro tier the same way that Emerald Nightmare, Highmaul, and Mogu'shan Vaults have been in expansions past. So basically you're just saying that the game is exactly the same and contradicting yourself because this patch didn't bring more than Broken Shore in Legion or Isle of Thunder in Pandaria.

Once again, that's like, your opinion man. I personally think it was a great patch, and I loved Mechagon and Nazjatar. I love them less now because I'm done with them, but I thoroughly enjoyed the patch and the zones as I actively played through them. Like your point, though, that's just my opinion.

And statistics show that you're the minority with that opinion.

[Th3Scourge]

BfA wasn't ready, didn't stop them from throwing it out the door raw.

And they paid for it in bad reviews and crashing sub numbers

[Xeh.-]

I dont see the problem here.

8.3 early january.
8.3 raids/mythic season/pvp season mid february

9.0 august september.

Shadowlands release october/november.

Thats about 6 7 months of last BFA season.

Give or take a month? Not a year long patch.

And 8.3.5 in between with some minor content.

[themaster24]

But you are, Lucid Dreams requires you to do daily quests every. single. day. Lucid dreams Major and Minor are huge increases for several specs. If you want to reach a certain point with your neck level you do have to invest in doing WQs, you will never reach 67-70 without an insane amount of time spamming Islands(if you want the only alternative to reliable AP acquisition).

1.) Follower dailies aren't WQ's. WQ's maybe an evolution of dailies, but they aren't the same.
2.) 65 is the highest you need to obtain all essence slots. Of that, 59-65 are where the biggest jump comes in for AP, and is easily obtainable through non-WQ means. M+ dungeon AP, M+ weekly cache, PvP matches, PvP weekly cache, weekly islands, table mission, LFD/LFR, raid drops. Do WQ's make it easier to get levels? Of course, I already said that, but they are not REQUIRED. If you want to achieve a certain level as rapidly as possible, ya, you're going to have to WQ.

You're the one who claimed "content for everyone", so don't go blathering out bullshit that goes against what your original argument was, stick to one point or fuck off.

Hold your horses there cowboy. I'm not sure what you're talking about, saying I claimed "content for everyone". You are replying to my first post in this thread, so if perhaps you think you are talking to someone else? Certainly no need to be telling me to fuck off.

This has nothing to do with getting 425 socket specific benthic pieces. Although that is a huge problem with the system. It's about those players that frequently make posts about how they don't want to do M+ or Raids, but still want decent gear. There is no "natural" feeling progression when you need over 300 pearls per slot to upgrade to 425. Again if you're going to claim "content for all" stick to the same story to at least look consistent.

Going to ignore the content for all, because again, no idea who or what that argument is. I guess I'm still not quite sure what your main complaint is. Is it that you don't like the existence of Benthic-esque gear, as in you don't think gear should exist that you upgrade (to this extent) by doing purely world content? Admittedly, I'm not 100% sure how I feel on the system after months of having it, so I can't say for sure one way or another, but a better system really should exist.

As with every expansion launch? Not sure what bullshit you're trying to push here lol. Every expansion since Mists of Pandaria added a new zone to go with the second raid 'tier' of an expansion. Let's get one thing straight here, Dazar'alor was the first tier of this expansion. Uldir was the intro tier the same way that Emerald Nightmare, Highmaul, and Mogu'shan Vaults have been in expansions past. So basically you're just saying that the game is exactly the same and contradicting yourself because this patch didn't bring more than Broken Shore in Legion or Isle of Thunder in Pandaria.

Huh? Are you just ignoring what I actually said? You made a statement that people only stormed 8.2 content "because the content was forced if you wanted to progress in any aspect of the game." My response was that it has nothing to do players being forced to do anything, players storm new content because it is new. They've been playing the same content for months and thirst for something new. I also made a tangential point that 8.2 offered more player agency (to a small degree) compared to the rest of the xpac, giving players more reasons to continue storming the content than previous points in the xpac.

This had nothing to do with what tier of the xpac it was, it had nothing to do with how often Blizz releases new zones. Does this response stem from you thinking you are replying to a different person? Cause it reads as if you are replying to a totally different statement.

And statistics show that you're the minority with that opinion.

What statistics? I've yet to see a statistic that says the majority of players hated 8.2, just like I haven't seen one that says a majority liked it. I've seen statistics that show that BFA was by and large poorly received, but not 8.2. If we want to be anecdotal, most of the things I have seen in regards to 8.2, on average, are positive. That's anecdotal though, so it doesn't mean a whole lot

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I hate it when people praise Mechagon.

It was literally a zone wide WQ, 5-10 daily quests and a bunch of meaningless rares and boring "events".

I just don't see how that was an "evolution". It was basically the same as any other patch zone. I had exhausted "exciting" and "fun" things on my second visit. A drill event going off and grinding spawning slimes is not revolutionary.


You know what Mechagon could have had that would be awesome? Jumping puzzles. Actual exploration. Maybe puzzles to work out.

To each their own, I guess. I thoroughly enjoyed Mechagon, and spent many days collecting all the recipes, working out how to beat the pet battles, trying (and eventually giving up on) catching all the rare fish, unlocking HM Drill Rig. I stopped doing the dailies once I got flying, as they were no longer worth it to me.

Mechagon is by no means perfect, it's by no means an evolution. What it was, was Blizz experimenting with changing up the formula a bit. Resonated with some, didn't with others. I'd rather that than Blizz put zero effort into making changes to how they approach things.

[Zyky]

1.) Follower dailies aren't WQ's. WQ's maybe an evolution of dailies, but they aren't the same.
2.) 65 is the highest you need to obtain all essence slots. Of that, 59-65 are where the biggest jump comes in for AP, and is easily obtainable through non-WQ means. M+ dungeon AP, M+ weekly cache, PvP matches, PvP weekly cache, weekly islands, table mission, LFD/LFR, raid drops. Do WQ's make it easier to get levels? Of course, I already said that, but they are not REQUIRED. If you want to achieve a certain level as rapidly as possible, ya, you're going to have to WQ.

Follower Dailies are the EXACT same as WQs, worse in fact. Because everyone LOVES having to grind low spawn rate, low drop rate meat off rays.

67 is what you need to obtain for all neck unlocks. M+ and PvP do not award nearly enough AP for the time and you will never hit 65-70, because the reality is 70 is where you want to be before 8.3 comes out as new traits get unlocked(so don't even try to push some bullshit narrative saying "OH LOL 65 IS ALL YOU NEED LULDERP". If you want to actually hit where you need to be without falling behind you NEED to do WQs, that's the bottom line. None of the other sources, other than having no life and spamming islands all day long, is a feasible source of AP to reach you to the cap to be prepared for the following patch.

Going to ignore the content for all, because again, no idea who or what that argument is. I guess I'm still not quite sure what your main complaint is. Is it that you don't like the existence of Benthic-esque gear, as in you don't think gear should exist that you upgrade (to this extent) by doing purely world content? Admittedly, I'm not 100% sure how I feel on the system after months of having it, so I can't say for sure one way or another, but a better system really should exist.

I explained it perfectly, you must have trouble reading. So I'm not going to repeat myself.

Huh? Are you just ignoring what I actually said? You made a statement that people only stormed 8.2 content "because the content was forced if you wanted to progress in any aspect of the game." My response was that it has nothing to do players being forced to do anything, players storm new content because it is new. They've been playing the same content for months and thirst for something new. I also made a tangential point that 8.2 offered more player agency (to a small degree) compared to the rest of the xpac, giving players more reasons to continue storming the content than previous points in the xpac.

This had nothing to do with what tier of the xpac it was, it had nothing to do with how often Blizz releases new zones. Does this response stem from you thinking you are replying to a different person? Cause it reads as if you are replying to a totally different statement.

I already rebuked this statement, it was stormed because people had to do the, lack of, new content for various forms of forced progression. I have no interested in repeating myself for a simpleton who, again, can't read.

What statistics? I've yet to see a statistic that says the majority of players hated 8.2, just like I haven't seen one that says a majority liked it. I've seen statistics that show that BFA was by and large poorly received, but not 8.2. If we want to be anecdotal, most of the things I have seen in regards to 8.2, on average, are positive. That's anecdotal though, so it doesn't mean a whole lot

The statistics are in the dying game. Guilds are dying left and right, factions are seeing less and less completed content(during prime time just about every single day you see more people wanting to sell M+ then you do actual groups), and there's proof in the various forums(not just mmo-c). Just because you have to actually look among varying sources and it isn't all consolidated, for a lazy person as yourself, that doesn't mean it isn't there.

[themaster24]

Follower Dailies are the EXACT same as WQs, worse in fact. Because everyone LOVES having to grind low spawn rate, low drop rate meat off rays.

67 is what you need to obtain for all neck unlocks. M+ and PvP do not award nearly enough AP for the time and you will never hit 65-70, because the reality is 70 is where you want to be before 8.3 comes out as new traits get unlocked(so don't even try to push some bullshit narrative saying "OH LOL 65 IS ALL YOU NEED LULDERP". If you want to actually hit where you need to be without falling behind you NEED to do WQs, that's the bottom line. None of the other sources, other than having no life and spamming islands all day long, is a feasible source of AP to reach you to the cap to be prepared for the following patch.

1.) Note that I never once said it is as efficient to pass over WQ, I simply said you could still achieve those levels, and you can do so easily within this patch. You could have easily hit more than 65 by now if you did No WQ, and only did other sources that provide AP. Heck, you can even buy AP pretty much every week when the warfront turn-ins come around. 4500/7750 (can't remember if it's 500 or 750 per turn-in) AP for 3 days on each warfront. Combine this plus doing some M+, PvP, Islands, or table missions, and BAM, you got your self tons of AP without ever having to do a WQ.

Like I clearly said multiple times before, I'm not arguing that doing WQ doesn't make leveling your heart easier/quicker. Of course it does, it's another source of AP, and adding in any additional source of AP will accelerate your Heart leveling speed.You might be in a hardcore raiding guild that expects you to unlock ASAP, and ya, that will mean doing not just WQ's, but every major source of AP available to unlock your essence slot for progression. It's one of the reason's I took a step back from being a part of that kind of group since Legion.

2.) It's not a BS narrative, because in 8.2, 65 is all you need. 67 is 3% staminia. That is not a necessary unlock, even for a tank. For most players, they don't care about reaching anything beyond 65. Getting 70 before 8.3 is not going to be that big of a deal (10 ilvls and 3% stamina), since AK will kick in once 8.3 hits, once again making it incredibly easy to get levels, including the 75 unlock for the last essence slot. There are no level requirements for the actual new essences coming out in 8.3. Are you a hardcore raider? Are you a min-maxer? Than ya, getting 67-70 matters for you because, despite being infinitesimally small upgrades, they are upgrades. However, that is not the majority of the people playing this game. You having the compulsion to get a 70 neck doesn't make this argument BS for the wide

I explained it perfectly, you must have trouble reading. So I'm not going to repeat myself.

You also approached this point from a mindset that I was a different person, as evident by the fact that you chose not to reply to the "content for all" comments you made. It's very easy for one to be unsure if your comment had an alternative meaning when that is factored it. Hence why I postulated as to what I thought your grievance was. Yet here we are, curt statements and all.

I already rebuked this statement, it was stormed because people had to do the, lack of, new content for various forms of forced progression. I have no interested in repeating myself for a simpleton who, again, can't read.

Between us, you have rebuked nothing. I initially responded to you saying, what you now said. You directly responded to me by saying how every expansion puts out new zones with X.2 and about what tier was what, which had literally nothing to do with what I said. You did not provide a counterpoint, and instead went off on a very loose tangent. Remember, I am not who you were talking to in page 1 or whatever. Perhaps take a second before you are telling people they are simpletons who can't read.

The statistics are in the dying game. Guilds are dying left and right, factions are seeing less and less completed content(during prime time just about every single day you see more people wanting to sell M+ then you do actual groups), and there's proof in the various forums(not just mmo-c). Just because you have to actually look among varying sources and it isn't all consolidated, for a lazy person as yourself, that doesn't mean it isn't there.

For one, that has little to nothing to do with Nazjatar and Mechagon. This is symptom of WoW being an older game. WoW has been declining in player count year over year pretty much since MoP. It will likely never have a true upward trend again. It will always see the same trend; Xpac Lauch: Brief Sub Jump, followed by sub drop, X.1/X.2/X.3: Brief Sub Jump, followed by sub drop. Overall though, the trend will continue to be downwards, however slight it might be (unless Blizz somehow revolutionizes MMO's again). Practically everyone is aware of this fact.

What you're talking about is the predictable lull between patches. This is no different than drop off during Uldir and Dazar'alor, or during Nighthold and Tomb. Gone are the days of BC where activity soared, and people always felt compelled to be doing stuff, long after they've cleared the current content. Nowadays, an increasing amount of people either resub to check out the content for a month and then unsub, or they return to achieve the new seasonal reward (Curve/Cutting Edge, Rated PvP Mount/Rank, etc) and then tapper off until the next patch comes out. Once again, this is not because of 8.2 being bad, it's how more and more people play this game now. The same thing will happen for 8.3. We'll have a spike in subs, 2-3 months of solid engagement across all activities, then you will see it tapper off.