South Korea signs defence agreement with China after Trump wants money from them.

[Donatello Trumpi]

They never will. And frankly, it wouldn't do what you may think it would.

The United Kingdom has acknowledged its colonial legacy to the point that it's committed a kind of geopolitical suicide as recompense for 250 years of global spanning Empire. Has acknowledgement of its history made relations with other countries easier? Not at all. Because the UK's former colonial holdings (the troublesome ones) really aren't interested in letting bygones be bygones. Really they want nothing from the British at all, other than to fuck right off. If anything they want things the British can't give.

There is also the ongoing question of how responsible are people for the crimes of their forebearers. As we move further and further away from World War II and the Colonial era, that's going to become more complicated. Take for example the American expansion westward (which is what the US did during the age of Colonialism). Am I responsible for the native American genoicide and displacement, even though one half of my family didn't arrive here until the 1890s and the other didn't arrive here until 1946? Are Germans born since 1990 inheriting the responsibility for the Holocaust and World War II?

Politicians in countries pull on these strings for political advantage, but they really aren't looking for a resolution. "Japan the Unrepentant" will forever have more currency in neighboring countries than "We're good with Japan now", because people will have heard from their grand parents and great grandparents of what the Japanese did.

So in the end, what's the entire fucking point? As ever, money and control. South Korea and Japan can both be mollified through this route. It is a transactional relationship.

You understand these points, yet you dont aknowledge that identity politics of the left is bullshit and all about control.

[Skroe]

You understand these points, yet you dont aknowledge that identity politics of the left bullshit and all about control.

Crying about identity politics, like you do loudly, often, and wholly ineffectively is like crying about how sometimes it rains on a planned summer beach day. It happens. Deal with it.

"Identity politics" is a contemporary name for pretty much the oldest politics there is. You think Massachusetts citizens - predominantly of Puritan Congregationalist of 1790 New England , thought much of the Baptists in the south? And Methodists int he mid-Atlantic states? Guess what. They didn't. They thought they were heathens.

Shall we review how 60 years ago JFK had to reassure the country that despite being a Catholic, he would not be a puppet of the Pope? A pope that our Protestant-majority country viscerally detested and distrusted, in no small part because the Catholic Church during the 18th and 19th century considered American Democracy an ungodly threat that had to be contained in America lest it spread to Europe and Christandom as a whole?

Identity politics _IS_ politics. And yet you whine about the way the game is played. People will forge new "identities" to fit their politics. It is an ever morphing, never ending, organic and natural part of politcs. They do it because it works. Identity politics has always and will always work.

So no, I don't take your identity politics whine seriously, and nobody else does either, because it really reflects a fundamentally - even childlike - misunderstanding of the nature of politics, which is fundamentally about belonging and security.

[Donatello Trumpi]

Crying about identity politics, like you do loudly, often, and wholly ineffectively is like crying about how sometimes it rains on a planned summer beach day. It happens. Deal with it.

"Identity politics" is a contemporary name for pretty much the oldest politics there is. You think Massachusetts citizens - predominantly of Puritan Congregationalist of 1790 New England , thought much of the Baptists in the south? And Methodists int he mid-Atlantic states? Guess what. They didn't. They thought they were heathens.

Shall we review how 60 years ago JFK had to reassure the country that despite being a Catholic, he would not be a puppet of the Pope? A pope that our Protestant-majority country viscerally detested and distrusted, in no small part because the Catholic Church during the 18th and 19th century considered American Democracy an ungodly threat that had to be contained in America lest it spread to Europe and Christandom as a whole?

Identity politics _IS_ politics. And yet you whine about the way the game is played. People will forge new "identities" to fit their politics. It is an ever morphing, never ending, organic and natural part of politcs. They do it because it works. Identity politics has always and will always work.

So no, I don't take your identity politics whine seriously, and nobody else does either, because it really reflects a fundamentally - even childlike - misunderstanding of the nature of politics, which is fundamentally about belonging and security.

While identity politics can be omnipresent, it has never had this communist and brave new world twist as today.

A corrupt helplessness that seeks to "unbelong" and instead of security sees threats in everyone who is not politically d'accord. A downward spiral that erodes the hegemony.

What I am telling you is, while past "identity politics" was conflict and sides, sure, current identity politics of the left is demoralization. Do you understand how much more damaging and dangerous the latter is?

[Kaleredar]

You understand these points, yet you dont aknowledge that identity politics of the left is bullshit and all about control.

Great deflection from "Trump is costing the US yet another ally for no good reason, thereby increasing the regional power of yet another one of America's adversaries"

Do you have anything to actually add to the topic on hand?

Like seriously. I want to hear your spin on this. I want to know what sort of mental gymnastics you're going to pull that justifies Trump basically getting punked by China and handing a long-standing US ally that's integral to the US' power position in East Asia over to them.

[CostinR]

Yes, and that's the point - it's pretty difficult to sustain the narrative of "Japan the Unrepentant" when it actually stops being so in reality.

As for acceptance of responsibility?

If you're willing to claim membership of a particular polity, civilization, or culture as a point of pride, you should also be willing to accept responsibility for that polity's sins. Especially if said sins continue to have lasting impacts in the current era.

You don't get to enjoy all the hoorah of patriotism and then sweep the negative aspects of that history under the rug.

Why not precisely? It's exactly because the United States has swept it's ugly history under the rug, and continues to do so, that it is the sole superpower in the world today.

That's not to say no one acknowledges the cruelties engineered by the United States of America, they are indeed acknowledged, but rather that it's not something that has too much weight on the way America conducts business around the world. The whole "we're Number 1" is very crucial aspect in America's global power.

I used to believe, as many Europeans do, that Americans are a bunch of arrogant assholes who believe they are much better then they actually are. What with their healthcare, insane consumerism culture, obsession with roads despite the crap infrastructure and so on.

I can safely say that over the last few years that view has certainly changed, not only for myself but a lot of people. Large swathes of the Europe will never LIKE America but we sure as heck respect it a lot more now then we did it years ago, and no this isn't about praising Trump, rather it has a lot to do with how bloody terrible Obama and Bush were as presidents.

[Easo]

So much winning, guys and girls, SO MUCH WINNING!
/s

I feel like a lot of these tensions would go away if Japan just acknowledged that they did a colonialism.

Yes, but politicians are never going to abandont their conservative support base.

[Azadina]

Who wants to bet which dictator told Trump that 5 billion dollar figure since even our own government can't figure out how he came to that number.

1 for the cost, 1 for Trump, 1 for Xi, and 2 for Putin. That's how figure of 5 spawns.

[Yadryonych]

It's shocking the amount of damage Trump has done to the USA's global standing/influence, and I don't mean that as a throwaway term it is shocking.

I mean look at Turkey for example, when Trump came to power there was a genuine worry that Turkey may end up at war with Russia (so much so that the government in my country had sought legal clarification that we were not obliged to help a NATO ally if they started a conflict). Compare that to today where Turkey's government has a distinct anti-American (or at least anti Trump) position and are actively buying SAMS from Russia while negotiating the sale of aircraft.

I'm pretty sure USA tried to topple turkish government in the summer 2016 which was before Trump, so i dont really see how is this a Trump's fault

[Easo]

I'm pretty sure USA tried to topple turkish government in the summer 2016 which was before Trump, so i dont really see how is this a Trump's fault

You cannot be even more obvious, can't you?

[Sorshen]

This administration is giving China all they want and calling it winning, what the fuck.

I'm pretty sure USA tried to topple turkish government in the summer 2016 which was before Trump, so i dont really see how is this a Trump's fault

Ease up on the conspiracy theories.

[Calfredd]

I'm pretty sure USA tried to topple turkish government in the summer 2016 which was before Trump, so i dont really see how is this a Trump's fault

You aren't talking about that faux coup attempt, are you?

[Yadryonych]

You aren't talking about that faux coup attempt, are you?

Sure, now when it failed you can call it a faux attempt and maybe even a joke.

"Lmao jk turkey bro, we chill"

[CostinR]

Why do I get the sense that Eastern European countries like the idea that our politics are fucked at the moment? Is there some kind of lesson they want to teach us so that we can be down on their level?

The real answer is that we got to be a superpower without having to rebuild ourselves, nor occupy more territory to become that way. Yes we can be arrogant, but we're more naive than arrogant. Yes, we take our relative lack of instability for granted constantly, but that doesn't necessarily mean we deserve to have Trump politics hoisted upon us. Unless you're a nihilist.

I guess I just don't understand why countries that have been under the boot of authoritarianism would be happy about Americans having their version of it.

Trump is a big mouth that loves his reality TV show. He's Mr. Wrestlemania in the White House, no more, no less. Indeed I'd he provides an excellent view of American politics: Lots of spectacle, talk, debate, anger, shouting, rage etc. but almost fuck all action. You think anyone can take your circus seriously as the doom of the world when your government is still functioning quite well?

Compared to the idiot cowboy that got over 100.000 people killed in his dumb war in Iraq or Mr. Noble Peace Prize that is in many significant ways responsible for Syria and it's half a million death toll to even think to compare them to Trump is rather a big ass joke. Shocking I know, but a lot of foreigners don't give a bloody shit for your domestic spectacle unless it affects us directly, just as you probably don't even know let alone care for ours.

The idea you're under an authoritarian system in any way is also quite frankly speaking a rather gigantic insult to people living in former eastern bloc countries, especially when Trump's so called authority seems to be rather limited.

Just an idea: Viktor Orban, who really pushes the limit of democracy in Europe, built a bloody wall in less then four months and severely reduced the flow of refugees as a result. Trump is what...over two years in and has less then 100 miles to show for it?

[Blur4stuff]

Amazing how many failures Trump supporters are willing to accept. This presidency has done more damage than can be repaired in a generation.

[smityx]

我开始说普通话是因为我们有了一个良好的开端

Я понятия не имею, что вы говорите

[Calfredd]

Sure, now when it failed you can call it a faux attempt and maybe even a joke.

"Lmao jk turkey bro, we chill"

Let's put this in a way you'll understand. Either Erdogan faked the coup to give himself more power (he does have more power after the coup) or the people who attempted the coup were so inept that its more surprising they didn't blow their own faces off with their guns.

[CostinR]

You seem to equate Trump with getting what we deserve, or getting someone that represents our American political system.
And honestly, no, they shouldn't take our current circus seriously. They should take his successor seriously though. I get a sense we'll be back to normal soon. Yes, that includes having #superpowerproblems like yelling at each other over meaningless shit.

You don't understand the point. The circus is an irrelevancy that doesn't matter, and no one really gives much of a crap outside of the United States about it. Countries do take Trump seriously as the president of the United States, but the things that have actually had an impact world wide are not the things widely discussed in the media.

I get the Iraq thing, not understanding the Syria thing. Not sure why you think Obama is responsible for Syria's civil war. Enlighten me.

Largely because the US and NATO armed and supported rebels against Assad with the original intent of creating a Libya 2.0 scenario complete with a UN vote authorizing a no fly zone. Also because thousands of militias from Libya where shipped to Syria via Turkey to fight against Assad with America's support. Obama was a sneaky bastard that didn't want his name attached to it, but make no mistake: Libya was his decision, not Cameron's or Sarkozy's but his, and his administration wanted a repeat in Syria.

Well it ended as being a disaster.

I guess I wasn't clear enough in my OP, in that I called it American authoritarianism, because our system has stability and protections from such a thing(i.e., we're playing with authoritarianism, but haven't gone full retard). I never dared to compare it to what your country has gone through before. Insinuating I have betrays your opinion on my motive, and I'd rather avoid that contentious talk.

You didn't seem to answer of my questions though. And besides, this could be interpreted as nation bashing, anyway, so we're in infraction territory.

Because Trump doesn't have control of the system, nor has he really moved to control it. Oh sure he cries a heck of a lot about say court decisions but he still accepts them and enforces them. It's a meaningless spectacle. As some people have rightly pointed out he's rather weak compared to presidents that came before him.

You wanna talk about authoritarianism? Bush Jr. was the guy who really took that the furthest, especially post 9/11.

[Kokolums]

One of Trumps chants is "America First", but when he is done with all of this it will be "America Alone".

Look at the democrats. They openly accuse Russia of hacking our election, criticize China for all kinds of things, and then attack the republican half of their own nation. Its like the democrats are desperate to get all 3 of them to unite against them. Its like "democrats alone".

[telygroar]

Я понятия не имею, что вы говорите

гугл перевод прогулка на мандарин тоже

[Sorshen]

Look at the democrats. They openly accuse Russia of hacking our election, criticize China for all kinds of things, and then attack the republican half of their own nation. Its like the democrats are desperate to get all 3 of them to unite against them. Its like "democrats alone".

Democrats? Accusing Russia of hacking?
Replace democrats with all the intelligence agencies.
Piss off with this bullshit.
The republican half of your nation doesn't want to pass legislation that will defend elections from outside interference.
It's not the democrats who abandoned the kurds to be massacred and paved the way for ISIS resurgence.
It's not the democrats who tried to extort SK, pushing them to China.