I still don't understand how we beat the legion

[Ehrenpanzer]

Did you know that during WW2, Germans were able to "pull off" their conquest of Europe when they were outnumbered, had inferior technology and inferior weapons? Now, you do.

1) They werent outnumber billions to 1....
2) They had the best airforce on the planet, which was a key aspect of Blitzkrieg
3) "Inferior" is a relative term, at the start of the war they certainly didnt have the hardest hitting tanks, but they had the fastest. Not to mention in Infantry training they excelled and had the best weaponry until late in the war

[Puupi]

Press I, join LFR, beat legion.

[Dellis0991]

So you're telling me that a single spaceship, much smaller than the exodar, capable of housing at most a couple thousand soldiers just went onto the Legion home planet filled with milions of blood thirsty demons and we just kicked their asses?

- An army that numbers in the millions;
- It is comprised of immortal creatures who can only die in a very specific dimension of the Cosmos;
- Controls the most advanced technology in the Cosmos and can use the souls of their fallen enemies to vastly empower their war machines;
- Is led by a myriad of powerful individuals - Sargeras, Archimonde, Kil'jaeden, Gul'dan, Mannoroth, Kazzak, Mephistroth, Tichondrius, Talgath etc...
- Transends realities;
- Controls at the very least 10.000 planets scattered across the Cosmos;
- Can assimiliate ANY mortal race, as any mortal can be turned into a Demon if they are infused with a large amount of Fel.

How was the argussian reach even alive? Isn't it like 25,000 years since Velen fled Argus? How in the world are they still a thing? Is the legion really that incompotent or is it just bad story telling? Hell I even heard the army of the light was on their last legs.

How?

Sargeras was guy keeping them in check without that power structure guiding them they will turn into infighting or some of them will just walk away to do their own thing and some will probably just go wild.

[TheFirstOnes]

Look at the Argus skybox.

I can't find a picture of it to save my life, but there's Legion ships being sent constantly straight to us. The portal was 2-way, so while we're on Argus, Azeroth was fighting for their lives as Sargeras literally had it in his clutches. Between that and all the invasion points, the Legion was busy elsewhere.

The argussian reach stayed alive mainly by staying off their radar and in the shadows, and they showed us how to do the same, using tunnels and the like to navigate under, rather than through, Legion forces.

With Antorus, we blew open a side entrance hidden away from their heavily guarded main one, and caught them right in the middle of what would have been game over: making a force of dark titans out of the weakened souls of the titans. We instead free them, and all of a sudden have the Pantheon on our side, weakened as they were, combined and using Argus's soul as a battery, they were enough to imprison Sargeras. Without any way to respawn to maintain the "infinite army" and left leaderless, they were toast.

In PvP terms, we capped their graveyard.

The Demons: Mission failed. We'll get em next time...

[zhero]

So you're telling me that a single spaceship, much smaller than the exodar, capable of housing at most a couple thousand soldiers just went onto the Legion home planet filled with milions of blood thirsty demons and we just kicked their asses?

- An army that numbers in the millions;
- It is comprised of immortal creatures who can only die in a very specific dimension of the Cosmos;
- Controls the most advanced technology in the Cosmos and can use the souls of their fallen enemies to vastly empower their war machines;
- Is led by a myriad of powerful individuals - Sargeras, Archimonde, Kil'jaeden, Gul'dan, Mannoroth, Kazzak, Mephistroth, Tichondrius, Talgath etc...
- Transends realities;
- Controls at the very least 10.000 planets scattered across the Cosmos;
- Can assimiliate ANY mortal race, as any mortal can be turned into a Demon if they are infused with a large amount of Fel.

How was the argussian reach even alive? Isn't it like 25,000 years since Velen fled Argus? How in the world are they still a thing? Is the legion really that incompotent or is it just bad story telling? Hell I even heard the army of the light was on their last legs.

How?

we defeated them because that's what the story writers wanted.

yes, i know, terrible story telling

[Heffladin]

It doesn't matter. You asked why they went there, and I explained. To attack Legion at their weakest point. You think they should wait for the demons to spread around Azeroth?

Okay are you being intentionally obtuse? We didn't attack them until 7.2 and they had an even stronger presence than the place we fled from, and those spaceships are still after Dalaran.. so you're telling me they fled a losing fight to wait several weeks next to their stronghold is a good plan?

[Arewn]

Final showdown with Legion always faced the problem of breaking the power scale considering how they were previously described in the lore and portrayed in War3.

You either had to make them dumb as a rock, which is what Blizz opted for, or think of a clever way to deal with them that doesn't necessarily entails exposing oneself to their full arsenal.

Precisely the reason why Legion's Legion doesn't feel like War3 Legion at all.

They could have set it up in such a way that time and distance mattered. That the legion's forces were spread thin across the myriad worlds they control and are conquering. And that the heroes, under a time crunch, were attacking the lightly defended home world before enemy reinforcement could arrive and overwhelm them.

They could have handled the story well without breaking the power scale, they really weren't at a point were they wrote themselves into a corner going in to Legion. But I guess that would be too much work.

[Feanoro]

Precisely the reason why Legion's Legion doesn't feel like War3 Legion at all.

We should have guess the "This Legion isn't like before!" line on Broken Shore meant they're dumber than ever.

[iamthedevil]

We didn't. All we did was put a dent in their stronghold and then imprison their leader. Then we ran away and closed the gate. There are so damn many of them it'd be impossible to completely defeat them. They will be back.

[Heffladin]

They could have set it up in such a way that time and distance mattered. That the legion's forces were spread thin across the myriad worlds they control and are conquering. And that the heroes, under a time crunch, were attacking the lightly defended home world before enemy reinforcement could arrive and overwhelm them.

They could have handled the story well without breaking the power scale, they really weren't at a point were they wrote themselves into a corner going in to Legion. But I guess that would be too much work.

I feel like it's some sort of feeling that they project onto the players, look -you, the hero of azeroth/class and qcommander- is so badass for taking down the legion at full power. Given how many people from the diablo 3 dev team were involved with Legion it does make a modicum of sense in my mind.

[Piamonte]

So you're telling me that a single spaceship, much smaller than the exodar, capable of housing at most a couple thousand soldiers just went onto the Legion home planet filled with milions of blood thirsty demons and we just kicked their asses?

- An army that numbers in the millions;
- It is comprised of immortal creatures who can only die in a very specific dimension of the Cosmos;
- Controls the most advanced technology in the Cosmos and can use the souls of their fallen enemies to vastly empower their war machines;
- Is led by a myriad of powerful individuals - Sargeras, Archimonde, Kil'jaeden, Gul'dan, Mannoroth, Kazzak, Mephistroth, Tichondrius, Talgath etc...
- Transends realities;
- Controls at the very least 10.000 planets scattered across the Cosmos;
- Can assimiliate ANY mortal race, as any mortal can be turned into a Demon if they are infused with a large amount of Fel.

How was the argussian reach even alive? Isn't it like 25,000 years since Velen fled Argus? How in the world are they still a thing? Is the legion really that incompotent or is it just bad story telling? Hell I even heard the army of the light was on their last legs.

How?

To be honest I still dont understand how did we beat archimonde

[Candy Cough]

You played Legion eye closed or just honestly stupid ?

You’re perpepuating misogynist oppression by being mean to me because im a woman. This is rape culture.

[Synros]

The guy, who retired in 2016, and before that was in charge of Overwatch development? Ok.

You do realize the game's story is written several years in advance, right?... Legion was announced mid 2015, and the main direction they wanted to take that story was probably decided before WoD even came out...

[KainneAbsolute]

In my headcannon, the Legion was figthing two fronts before we invaded:

- The Army of the Light, that I think it should much bigger and include civilizations never seen before.
- The forces in the Void in the Argussian reach. I wish the Void summoned something really deadly.

The only way to explain the Legion defeat is they faced three armies (Light, Void and MU Azeroth).

I kinda wish the AU Draenor intervened, even with a Zealot Yrel.

[Makabreska]

Okay are you being intentionally obtuse? We didn't attack them until 7.2 and they had an even stronger presence than the place we fled from, and those spaceships are still after Dalaran.. so you're telling me they fled a losing fight to wait several weeks next to their stronghold is a good plan?

Ye, cuz you know, in 7.2 Tomb of Sargeras was STILL their main way to Azeroth? And we managed to dismantle all their operations on Broken Shore (Nightborn, Gul'dan, Fel Totem etc.) in 7.0/7.1, so no, they didn't necessarily have stronger presence there? I really don't get what's your problem is with understanding the term "choke point". We went there with the Pillars of Creation to close the gate. Follow the story of the game you play, instead of making incoherent rants, pls.

[Rafoel]

No its not bad storytelling, its as simple as its a game, if it would be logical, we shouldnt even have been able to clear MC.

With the sizes of raid bosses every raid boss should just crushed the tank in 1 hit.

That's why you stack STRENGTH from items as warrior lul.

You also stack DEFENSE so you CAN'T be CRUSHED :}

[Gurahk]

Yes we did. He is now imprisoned by Illidan and Pantheon. Archi and KJ are dead. BL is leaderless. We also destroyed their never ending supply of demons in Antorus. Did you play the end of Legion?

We didn't destroy "the never ending supply of demons", those still exist, but now they can be killed within the Twisting nether instead of always reviving.

[Makabreska]

We didn't destroy "the never ending supply of demons", those still exist, but now they can be killed within the Twisting nether instead of always reviving.

Nope, we could already perma kill them before Antorus, like with Archibald and KJ. From WoWpedia: "Argus was twisted and corrupted beyond redemption by the Burning Legion, his power harnessed to fuel the demons' infinite army, allowing them to endlessly regenerate in the Twisting Nether. The Legion's connection to the world-soul had to be severed in order to bring an end to the Burning Crusade once and for all. To do this, the Pantheon brought Argus' soul to their Seat."

[Aeula]

Legion was the expansion where Blizzard made sure to drill home that the enemies we fought would never be a threat to us. Something we already knew, but seeing the Legion that had dominated lore for so long win one battle and then lose each and every other battle after, act like idiots with no tactics and then having us visit their homeworld only to see that it’s just a disappointing wasteland with no actual infrastructure, just ruins and random hobo demons strewn about. (Making them feel even more like cannon fodder and less like an advanced race of dangerous demons). You can’t help but not feel threatened by anything else this game has to throw at you.

[cparle87]

We didn't destroy "the never ending supply of demons", those still exist, but now they can be killed within the Twisting nether instead of always reviving.

My understanding was the "will always respawn if not killed in the nether" thing was always part of the demon's innate ability. That's why Sargeras created Marduum to lock them all up. Cause he spent millenia killing them just for them to come back. Argus supercharged the process, allowing the demons to regenerate much more quickly. Take guys like Tichondrius who were killed in the Third War and were revived by the time of Legion. Or Mannoroth, killed in Draenor still a pile of bones 1-2ish years later, had to get a blast of fel from Gul'dan to regenerate the rest of the way. Without Argus they're still going to revive, but it's going to take longer. It's not going to be kill the same felguard in the same battle multiple times like it was.