The Failure Warmode is going into Shadowlands?

[plz delete account]

Yet if you run into an idiot and call them "idiot" you can get suspended, but if you call them smart you won't get suspended. Telling the truth can get you banned while lying is accepted.

exactly. got infracted a month or two ago because of something like this.

[Razorice]

Do we know something about warmode in Shadowlands?

Will the alliance recieve +30% bonus during the whole expansion again?

I would like to know why you consider WM a failure?

[HitPoint]

The only problem with Warmode is the fact you can't see group members that have WM set differently to you. Generally you don't miss them because you can't see them and don't notice they are there. But when you group for a dungeon it is quite jarring that you can't see players in your group until you enter an instance.

I don't know if it's just an ELVUI thing but the phasing icon is a different color to indicate someone has a different WM set then you.

[msdos]

Warmode is a gimmick for me. The PVP is awkward, people disappear randomly all over the place and it tends to be a nuisance because I'm never trying to mass scale PVP out in the world.

When I am trying to mass PVP is when it's Southshore vs Tarren Mill brawl. They should make this a regular thing. The other massive BGs have retarded objectives and don't quite capture the spirit of massive PVP like SS vs TM.

[dcc626]

I would like to know why you consider WM a failure?

my guess, from the tone of his message, is that he is horde.

[Cizr]

WM is one of the best features that BFA came with and I say that as someone who plays Horde. I hope it stays

[Wilian]

WM is good, what are you smoking

[kendro1200]

World PvP is kind of dead again. Most of the players specially allies are on wm off.

No one at blizzcon that played the demo reported anything about the pvp talent tab?

There was nothing to report. Blizzcon was a BFA build with the Shadowlands zone dropped in. No new talents, spells, the level squish or anything were in that demo build. Something that isn't scaring people enough is that Blizzcon showed that the rest of Blizzard is at the early concept design phase of Shadowlands, meanwhile the art team is well into the development cycle. The class design team hasn't even decided what spells they are initially planning to bring back, they just gave "ideas" in their slide.

Shadowlands has as much development behind it as TBC did when it was announced. The issue with that is Blizzard has shown it is no longer the "ship when it's ready" developer. That means that unless they have the resolve to stand up to Activision bullying them into a 3rd quarter release again, Shadowlands is going to be a very under developed expansion. People thought going from artifacts and legendaries to HoA was rough. Next you will go from HoA to nothing at all, have another stat squish with a level squish. There is just a lot of very bad things that are about to happen with Shadowlands development, and the current iteration of Blizzard doesn't seem capable of steering the boat in the right direction to put out another good game when it launches.

[cparle87]

Since the introduction of War Mode, I've never seen Alliance go lower than 20% on their bonus. Horde never had higher than 10%. I do not believe that the numbers are that perpetually unbalanced. The bonus needs to be static for both sides or removed entirely.

I always say it as more of "5,000 Horde going around singly doing their own thing being roflstomped by 1,000 Alliance all grouped up" is what is causing the inbalance. We have more people with WM active, and the Alliance know that, so they're going out of their way to group up. I can recall on one hand the number of times I've been attacked by a single Alliance while out playing. It's ALWAYS groups.

[Depakote]

What is it with you opening bait thread after bait thread?

Why is it a bait thread? Because you don't agree with op? If so that's sad & says more about you than it does about OP.

[Kiri]

I always say it as more of "5,000 Horde going around singly doing their own thing being roflstomped by 1,000 Alliance all grouped up" is what is causing the inbalance. We have more people with WM active, and the Alliance know that, so they're going out of their way to group up. I can recall on one hand the number of times I've been attacked by a single Alliance while out playing. It's ALWAYS groups.

It's a survival mechanism, really. You can't force your faction to turn on WM in sufficient numbers, so you only go out in groups when you do go. I still remember trying to quest solo on WM as Alliance, but a lot of WQs were just a revolving door of horde appearing in superior numbers and killing you, while random alliance players didn't turn up to create an actual fight. Getting anything done on a lot of shards (some do end up on alli dominated ones) requires grouping, so people either dropped out of WM or grouped up. People take the path of least resistance. And once you spend an hour trying to get a tag on some azerite wq named mob, spamming general with no one coming to help, most people tend to not want to repeat the experience.

[Ealyssa]

WM is an amazing success. Way better than what pvp servers were at the end of legion.

The manchilds crying in this thread don't give a single argument against WM. They are just against how open world pvp works in wow. And that's ok, play something else. No need to point a new functionality that has nothing to do what what you don't like.

Warmode has nothing to do with sharding and shard hoping
Warmode has nothing to do with faction imbalance

[Topornic]

If the other solution is going back to PvP/Normal duality then no thank you.

[cparle87]

It's a survival mechanism, really. You can't force your faction to turn on WM in sufficient numbers, so you only go out in groups when you do go. I still remember trying to quest solo on WM as Alliance, but a lot of WQs were just a revolving door of horde appearing in superior numbers and killing you, while random alliance players didn't turn up to create an actual fight. Getting anything done on a lot of shards (some do end up on alli dominated ones) requires grouping, so people either dropped out of WM or grouped up. People take the path of least resistance. And once you spend an hour trying to get a tag on some azerite wq named mob, spamming general with no one coming to help, most people tend to not want to repeat the experience.

Yeah, you're totally right. But it leads to beliefs like those of the person I quoted. Which is basically "Ally outnumber Horde everywhere I go but they still get the bonuses, Blizzard is biased/lazy/worthless/don't care/pick your snappy buzzword here/etc."

[TheRevenantHero]

It's a survival mechanism, really. You can't force your faction to turn on WM in sufficient numbers, so you only go out in groups when you do go. I still remember trying to quest solo on WM as Alliance, but a lot of WQs were just a revolving door of horde appearing in superior numbers and killing you, while random alliance players didn't turn up to create an actual fight. Getting anything done on a lot of shards (some do end up on alli dominated ones) requires grouping, so people either dropped out of WM or grouped up. People take the path of least resistance. And once you spend an hour trying to get a tag on some azerite wq named mob, spamming general with no one coming to help, most people tend to not want to repeat the experience.

How is it a survival tactic? The Alliance knows the Horde doesn't group up so THEY group up to swarm every Horde they see just because they can. Meanwhile, most Horde don't even attack Alliance that are alone. If I'm alone on my Alliance toon, it's more likely a Horde /waves at me then moves along.

[Kiri]

How is it a survival tactic? The Alliance knows the Horde doesn't group up so THEY group up to swarm every Horde they see just because they can. Meanwhile, most Horde don't even attack Alliance that are alone. If I'm alone on my Alliance toon, it's more likely a Horde /waves at me then moves along.

It depends on what shard you are etc. Some groups are formed with the express purpose of ganking horde, naturally. Tbh, I myself could only talk from my own experience of course. And I know that I, as well as most people in my guild, only went into warmode with a group since otherwise it was usually too one-sided in the other direction. And I must admit that we tended to attack horde asap rather than try to gauge whether or not they are in 'live or let live' mode.
Though, playing on both factions, I gotta say that the waving thing is pretty common - until one side notices that they happen to have superior numbers. I've pretty much quested alongside people on the other faction for like 10 minutes a few times, only for them to turn on me the moment another of their faction appeared. People are often pretty opportunistic, haha. Happened more with enemy alliance tbh, but, again, that's pretty much because I only go WM on my ally toons when I got some form of group going.

[TheRevenantHero]

It depends on what shard you are etc. Some groups are formed with the express purpose of ganking horde, naturally. Tbh, I myself could only talk from my own experience of course. And I know that I, as well as most people in my guild, only went into warmode with a group since otherwise it was usually too one-sided in the other direction. And I must admit that we tended to attack horde asap rather than try to gauge whether or not they are in 'live or let live' mode.
Though, playing on both factions, I gotta say that the waving thing is pretty common - until one side notices that they happen to have superior numbers. I've pretty much quested alongside people on the other faction for like 10 minutes a few times, only for them to turn on me the moment another of their faction appeared. People are often pretty opportunistic, haha. Happened more with enemy alliance tbh, but, again, that's pretty much because I only go WM on my ally toons when I got some form of group going.

I guess my experiences are different, as you said. Any time I've come across a Horde on my Alliance characters, they've been nothing but friendly. But when I'm on my Horde characters, even if an Alliance character is alone they will go out of their way to try and murder me. When they fail, they immediately find some friends and go out of their way to find me. I've even had them make Horde characters just to whisper me with shit like "Thought you'd be able to quest in peace? Eat shit, hordie."

[Alkizon]

This is

Sfidt
other solution is going back to PvP/Normal duality

the only healthy solution to such issues, since this “appendix” neither meet requirements for open world rules organizing, nor for organizing such activity as a whole *sarcastically* However, if this misunderstanding is so fond of gentlemen PvE players, then... they can leave similar function on their realms, although, as I think, problem is more likely in their intolerance than in real understanding of this issue

It doesn't belong here.

vsb
Warmode is fine! Buff is not. Remove the buff, so people will choose warmode to PvP, not to PvE.

And by the way, about that.

Here, either WM is something that hounds fractions to each other >> which means it must have certain incentive >> and therefore it must impose specific choice in action >> and therefore it's not "free" choice area (which = free, in this sense, were PvP servers)... which, by definition, is completely corresponds to purpose and functionality of BGs. But you can have BG regardless of type of realm, so why remove PvP (but, in fact, ones with free choice of actions) servers? It’s true that there was absolutely no reason for this, but they did it, and now they got so many problems of both technical and organizational nature that they don’t know what to do with them (I'm afraid that, due to incompetence, devs don’t even suspect about their source).

Therefore, your proposal won't work in any way, and we have discussed it so many times that I'm too lazy to repeat “why” and “how” it works (however, you, as well as devs, continue to not understand what wPvP really is - it's unorganized, not specifically motivated, unpredictable process): so about WM - either there is incentive and this is BG, or there is no incentive and this is ghost town.

= = = = simple proof from point of healthy game conditions = = = =
since, from game's adequate technical side, in order to receive rewards (and nobody needs it without rewarding), you need to participate in more or less complication-balanced activity, activity with at least some complexity (matching rewards to "labor-time"), and it can't be organized in framework of current WM design (whole world toggle)... so it have to be BG (which is only working such one here, balance&rewards, but with commitment, no choice in participation, was built for mandatory fight activity) and PvP servers (which is about no balance&rewards, but about every minute freedom of choice) should be returned. Q.E.D.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

Idea, as original, did&does&will not work (nowhere and never, especially as "alternative to PvP servers"), because have no logic.

ps. Again, everything is here +(+/+/+/+/+) someone just should start reading

vsb
I'm not suggesting to remove ANY incentive to enable war mode. War mode is about PvP. Therefore it must have PvP incentive. Honour points, ranks, PvP gear or anything like that

Then it's, as I said, BG and have to be treated this way (not "world toggle" - world have to be solid = no escape): separate queue, balancing and objectives, if this isn't done *pointing on retail* there would be problems (and this, if we'll ignore directly problems of current PvP organization in general at current state: no specific characteristics (itemization, progress), butchered class design (PvP percs) and server's organisation (shards/CRZ/phasing/scaling) etc, which are separate important issues, but of more global order)... which brings us back to question of PvP servers returning. It's simple

vsb
now World PvP is about involving people who don't really want to engage in PvP

it’s not now, it’s always been like that, but earlier it wasn’t broad world “organized” process, but here exactly is the difference. Want to know how to organize this within open world without violating its rules? *stares intently at e.plaguelands, hf.peninsula+Zangarmarsh+Auchindoun+Nagrand, WG, TB and <with disgust> Ashran* (Timeless island was mishmash, but it's also one of ways to have exactly wPvP, as well as "skirmishes" near Trolls-invaders with specific resources during MoP, that why it's not in this list) - so what you're talking about is not wPvP, it's just simple organized activity of PvP process, it may take place in open world, but will have certain limitations in connection with this, and WM is absolutely incorrect implementation of such one - *pointing at current status of Classic PvP-servers* See? Do you know why? Because people, who like to say that wPvP died when BG appeared, are mistaken according to same principle as written above: BG helped wPvP take shape as natural process, so appearance of BG doesn't signify death of wPvP, but rather opposite - indicates its inception. Same principles should be laid down for WM, but this isn't fulfilled, hence the problems.

Tech614
it gave players the option to have world PVP or not with the click of a button in town instead of having to realm transfer for the same effect

No. IT'S NOT WPVP , people... You have BG for this, you had PvE servers with checkbox for this, it's not game's problem to solve yours. You're the problem here, namely, your irresponsible attitude to any choice, in fact, is what you are deprived of in all new innovations, you're deprived of any meaningful choice like kind of crying sily irresponsible children... guess how this behavior will help in raising such children? what will be their life experience? who will they grow into?

ps. Ho-ho-ho... How many people continue to misunderstand main principle and censor in such matters: system requirements, even small ones, should be over any “opinions”, otherwise will provoke heaps of problems in maintaining system's viability.
- - -
two young men can have a lot of “fun” with each other, but they'll need someone, who actually carries component to complete system requirements to save their DNA; no matter how they talked about how wonderful everything is, they won’t be able to change system foundations, or they'll die without leaving any genetic material
- - -
This is functionality principle of any system, and therefore, even if whole forum led by devs themself will come here to tell about how they like it and how cool everything is, even will arrange a whole "parade" about this... System requirements, rules, and fulfillment of its necessary conditions! - they won't be able to cross out, that WM, in current implementation, is inappropriate (was, is and will be) for the system, and it doesn't have any right to replace PvP servers, since it's organized according to principle, that differs from them, creates completely different conditions and causing other consequences

[vsb]

Warmode is fine! Buff is not. Remove the buff, so people will choose warmode to PvP, not to PvE.

- - - Updated - - -

Here either WM is something that pits fractions, which means it must have certain incentive, and therefore it must impose specific choice in action, and therefore it's not "free" choice area

I'm not suggesting to remove ANY incentive to enable war mode. War mode is about PvP. Therefore it must have PvP incentive. Honour points, ranks, PvP gear or anything like that.

Right now World PvP is about involving people who don't really want to engage in PvP and allowing imbeciles to kill those people (they call it PvP farm). This is so wrong attitude for both of those types of players.

[Tech614]

Warmode is fine! Buff is not. Remove the buff, so people will choose warmode to PvP, not to PvE.

This, warmode was never the problem. The problem was they tried to band aid fix a faction imbalance with a poorly implemented buff, and gave 10% quest bonuses which led to people who don't want to PVP turning it on for the bonus. Warmode as itself was a great addition to the game- it gave players the option to have world PVP or not with the click of a button in town instead of having to realm transfer for the same effect. The result is it gets a lot more people to do world pvp without having to have the commitment of ALWAYS being in world PVP.

They should just get rid of any and all incentives outside of pvp bonuses like honor and conquest and the result will be you have the people who want to PVP when they want to PVP.