Now I see why Chris Evans bowed out

[Knaar]

Im guessing Disney will do the same thing with MCU as they did with Star Wars and just slowly kill off every characters we know/have right now and make their own so they have all the rights to them.

[PACOX]

I wish Marvel would just take single issue comics and turn them into a Movie.

Like Wolverine #8 with Gray Hulk. Would be a fun movie and have nothing to do with infinity gems. Just a fun Hulk and Wolverine movie. . . .

They are doing a 'What if' series for stuff like that.

[Grahper]

Too many black and female characters they need to push, no place for a toxic masculine guy like Hulk.

[Endus]

But, where are you getting the idea that Iron Man was a C-list character? That statement confuses me completely.

B-list is probably more accurate, along with Thor and Captain America.

In the '90s, these characters had fallen out of popular favor to a large extent. It's largely why nobody was trying to get licensing rights to make films with them, unlike so many other Marvel characters. That's why Marvel still had those rights free and clear, to kick off the MCU. It's why the X-men, Fantastic Four, Spider-man, and others were all left out (until recently with Spider-Man, and that's still contentious between studios).

Guardians of the Galaxy was essentially the Marvel team saying "fuck yeah, we can't just turn B-listers into A-listers, here's a D-list team we'll make superstars!"

All the MCU characters have, obviously, had a major resurge in popularity, but at the time, they weren't A-listers for the most part.

Any ideas where to start? The character sounds really interesting and I'm looking forward to the show.

A good jump-in point is probably Ellis and Shalvey's run. It's a more-modern kickoff for the character and the business suit look is fun. Great art, too.

[Immitis]

They are doing a 'What if' series for stuff like that.

thats not what what if is going to be about. what if is going to be elseworlds stuff. things like "what if captain america snapped thanos and iron man lived", "what if hank pym was the one who got lost instead of janet"

we arent going to get things that could be used for future stories

[Cosmic Janitor]

I agree, Ironman has always been one of Marvels bigger names

Yea, it wasn't cash cow level spiderman, but it was certainly not c-list. That is complete rubbish.

[Beazy]

They are doing a 'What if' series for stuff like that.

I hope so. Ive read as much as I could about the "What If" series, but I just dont know what their real plans are.

It would be awesome if they pick up a random comic from the 70s, 80s, or 90s and just turn it into a show.

[Immitis]

I hope so. Ive read as much as I could about the "What If" series, but I just dont know what their real plans are.

It would be awesome if they pick up a random comic from the 70s, 80s, or 90s and just turn it into a show.

if youve ever watched adventure time it will be like the graybles episodes, the watcher will host it and every episode will have an elseworlds what if scenario, it will be animated but voiced by the same actors from the mcu.

so far the cast list is this

Cast

Jeffrey Wright as Uatu/The Watcher
Hayley Atwell as Peggy Carter/Captain Carter
Michael B. Jordan as Erik Stevens
Sebastian Stan as Bucky Barnes
Josh Brolin as Thanos
Mark Ruffalo as Bruce Banner
Tom Hiddleston as Loki
Samuel L. Jackson as Nick Fury
Chris Hemsworth as Thor
Chadwick Boseman as T'Challa
Karen Gillan as Nebula
Jeremy Renner as Clint Barton
Paul Rudd as Scott Lang
Michael Douglas as Hank Pym
Neal McDonough as Dum Dum Dugan
Dominic Cooper as Howard Stark
Sean Gunn as Kraglin Obfonteri
Natalie Portman as Jane Foster
David Dastmalchian as Kurt
Stanley Tucci as Abraham Erskine
Taika Waititi as Korg
Toby Jones as Arnim Zola
Djimon Hounsou as Korath the Pursuer
Jeff Goldblum as Grandmaster
Michael Rooker as Yondu Udonta
Chris Sullivan as Taserface

The first episode will ask what if Peggy Carter had taken the Super Soldier Serum instead of Steve Rogers.

[Skizzit]

I agree with you that Moon Knight is fantastic. It always has been as a comic, even dating back to the earliest issues in the 80s.

But, where are you getting the idea that Iron Man was a C-list character? That statement confuses me completely.

I agree, Ironman has always been one of Marvels bigger names

Depends on from what perspective. To comic fans, yeah Iron Man is one of the bigger parts of the greater Marvel universe. But to the general movie going public, many would know the name and maybe that he wears a robot suit but most probably couldn't tell you any more than that. It's one of the big reasons they choose to start with an Iron Man movie. Enough recognition to be a draw without damaging the overall Marvel brand had it flopped. C-list is probably a little harsh, but he certainly wasn't an A-list hero like Spider-man or Wolverine.

For a movie to JUST break even, they have to make three times what they cost to make.

I think it is closer to double production costs to break even. Triple to be considered a success.

[Oakshana]

B-list is probably more accurate, along with Thor and Captain America.

In the '90s, these characters had fallen out of popular favor to a large extent. It's largely why nobody was trying to get licensing rights to make films with them, unlike so many other Marvel characters. That's why Marvel still had those rights free and clear, to kick off the MCU. It's why the X-men, Fantastic Four, Spider-man, and others were all left out (until recently with Spider-Man, and that's still contentious between studios).

Guardians of the Galaxy was essentially the Marvel team saying "fuck yeah, we can't just turn B-listers into A-listers, here's a D-list team we'll make superstars!"

All the MCU characters have, obviously, had a major resurge in popularity, but at the time, they weren't A-listers for the most part.

In the 90s, Anything that wasn't X-men or Spider-Man related at Marvel fell out of favor. And that whole "Onslaught" alternate universe driven by Jim Lee and Rob Liefeld just made everything worse.

- - - Updated - - -

I think it is closer to double production costs to break even. Triple to be considered a success.

I am just going by what people in the industry that I have known have told me. It's considered triple cost to break even, because the production costs of a movie generally do not include all of the costs for publicity and marketing.

[Shelly]

I agree, Ironman has always been one of Marvels bigger names

Everything not X-Men or Spiderman was pretty at least B listing but often just garbage tier. They tried to do a few reboot things - young Iron Man from a time warp, so many NOMADs for Captain America, Avengers always having a shifting line up - but really all the pre-X-Men stuff was just core Marvel fan stuff which is why they hadn't been able to sell the movie rights as they vivisected all their other properties.

[Endus]

In the 90s, Anything that wasn't X-men or Spider-Man related at Marvel fell out of favor. And that whole "Onslaught" alternate universe driven by Jim Lee and Rob Liefeld just made everything worse.

Well, that's the point.

They were the A-list, prior to the MCU. Characters like Iron Man and Thor were B-list. That's why the rights to them weren't optioned out and Marvel retained them, to use them in the MCU.

Given the issues they're continuing to have with Hulk and Spider-Man, I think it's clear how necessary having that freedom was to making the MCU a workable thing.

I am just going by what people in the industry that I have known have told me. It's considered triple cost to break even, because the production costs of a movie generally do not include all of the costs for publicity and marketing.

That's also where Hollywood Accounting comes in. That's how they take a movie that sets records for box-office draw, and tell people it lost money, so they don't have to pay out percentages of net. That's why you never ask for a percentage of the net; you ask for a percentage of the gross.

[Highelf]

So it's no secret Mark Ruffalo has shown interest in remaining in the MCU as its Hulk. I was reading MCU news and found this interesting bit.

“Kevin Feige just asked me last week if I had any more ideas or stories for the Hulk. And I said yeah, I think there’s still some stories to tell. And he said, ‘Well why don’t you come in and tell me about them and we’ll see if we can find a place for you in the Marvel universe?’” Source:

Now, I'm now saying Kevin Feige comes off as a jerk or anything, he pretty much invited Ruffalo to a brainstorm session, but it's how he worded the last bit. Does it come off like "if we got something good, we'll fit you in" but it also sounds like they might not have anything for Hulk. Really? HULK? With Chris Evans, Robert Downey Jr., and Scarlett Johansson all stepping down, you'd think Feige would be eager to keep one of the few original Avengers actors that actually wants to stay. It comes off very nonchalant. You have time to develop C-list properties like Shang-Chi, Moon Knight, and She-Hulk, but your writers haven't been working on anything for Hulk, whose actor actually wants to stay?

It suddenly puts what Chris Evans said in perspective. He opted to step down before being pushed out. It's no secret these movie studios are fickle, so what Evans said makes a lot of sense. It doesn't pay to be loyal or passionate about your character beyond your contract.

After the travesty that was Hulk in IW and EG, I have lost all interest. It's like they purposely undid everything Taika built in Ragnarok. I think Christie Golden was brought in to write Hulk after Ragnarok.

[Nurasu]

Mark Ruffalo has a boring personality and poor delivery, even for playing someone as naturally dry as Dr. Banner. They also don't need him to include a CGI Hulk in future movies.

[Highelf]

Im guessing Disney will do the same thing with MCU as they did with Star Wars and just slowly kill off every characters we know/have right now and make their own so they have all the rights to them.

Sounds about right.

[Nero Duskwind]

Disney cannot use Hulk yet as a main character, they still don't have the rights. They can only use him as a secondary character, which will forever be a waste of a hero imo. I'd rather not see Hulk anywhere than having a dumbed down Hulk being useless all day long as we had recently.

Let's wait until Disney buys Universal

They don't need to buy Universal. Disney and NBC have ironed out deals before, like when they traded Al Michaels' contract to NBC to be on Sunday Night Football and Disney was able to bring Oswald the Lucky Rabbit (Walt Disney's very first creation, predating Mickey Mouse) home.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...-oswald-rabbit

I'm sure if both parties can find something the other wants, they can iron something out again.

[Beefhammer]

Popularity wise yes if we compare him against Spider-Man, Superman and Batman but those got movies that made them more popular with the average joe. In-universe Stark was always important and among one of the most sold comics characters in the marvel house

At the time when the movies came out Iron Man comic sales were pretty garbage averaging around 50 books sold per month which is significantly less than the 150K-180K average the previous decade before the movie. Even after the movie they didn't help out sales.

Stark's importance is huge in the comics universe, it just never translated well to sales. He was never a popular character.

[Oakshana]

Mark Ruffalo has a boring personality and poor delivery, even for playing someone as naturally dry as Dr. Banner. They also don't need him to include a CGI Hulk in future movies.

And that's why it's called a "personal" opinion.

I think he's flat in some things, and better in others. I have enjoyed him much more as Banner/Hulk than I thought I would have. Especially in Thor: Ragnarok.

[Beefhammer]

Im guessing Disney will do the same thing with MCU as they did with Star Wars and just slowly kill off every characters we know/have right now and make their own so they have all the rights to them.

They will never get the full rights to Spider-man nor Hulk, nor anyone other character that has appeared in other studios movies. The Avengers had a good run. Time to move on. There is so much more and better characters out there than what most of the first series of movies gave us. They gave us the familiar, now give us the good and the weird.

[Ivanstone]

It suddenly puts what Chris Evans said in perspective. He opted to step down before being pushed out. It's no secret these movie studios are fickle, so what Evans said makes a lot of sense. It doesn't pay to be loyal or passionate about your character beyond your contract.

Or he just opted to not renew his contract because he wanted to do different things. Last few years he hasn't gotten to do a variety of things just because he was to busy doing Cap 2/3 and Avengers 2/3. He can move on now, do other acting roles and try directing.