What rewards does raiding need to make it more appealing?

[Veox89]

I want an overlap of gear to encourage more people to dip their toes into mythic.

Say each boss gives an extra ilevel or so, but with the last boss on heroic giving equal or slightly higher than the first mythic boss.

It's hard to get a group of like minded people together these days. Personal loot doesn't reward loyalty or putting in effort outside of raid.

2 difficulties should be enough too.

[SkagenRora]

How is The best neck effects and the best item levels not "Enough" rewards for you all?

[Depakote]

Brand new car?

[kaminaris]

You being sure of something is not evidence. The numbers prove participation is down. People's anecdotal experience say numbers are down. Your head canon has been proven wrong.

Nobody has proven me wrong, so far i hear only people not knowing basics of statistics.
And yes we can be sure legion had more overall player count. Based on trend (yes, again statistics) and some data leaks.

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If your going to talk about basic math then you should get it right. You are talking about participation rate not participation. I feel your embarrassment at getting something so simple wrong . And you have no proof what you are trying to say is correct or not. You are just using feelings and I learnt that feelings do t belong in math.

The population in BFA is the same as it is at the same time in Legion. Using that statement, the participation rate is lower. I don't need a source because like you, I'm sure my numbers are correct.

I am getting it right because nobody in right mind would think I was talking about raw numbers. Im absolutely not embarrassed since I know what I am taking about, and you don't.

If you would know basic math and statistics you would know that population in BfA is nowhere near the same as in Legion simply because of trend.

[Dakara]

The weekly chest (PVE) should not be tied to Mythic + exclusively. A raider who clears Normal/Heroic/Mythic but doesn’t do a key should also get a weekly chest. Especiallysince raids have lockouts while M+ can be farmed.

The difficulty vs reward curve for M+ is a mess... although 8.3 looks to alleviate that with scaling up to +15

Perhaps raids shouldn’t have weekly lockouts? If M+ can be farmed, why not raids? Or, (more sensibly) add weekly lockouts to M+.

Titanforging needs to go. Random sockets need to go, just put sockets on rings/necks and be done with it.

[Loveliest]

False and Classic proves you completly wrong. I also doont raid above LFR becouse of LFR. If LFR woulf not be in game and i would be forcced to do normal or heroic i would do it. But as long as there will be lfr as path of least resistance i wont bother.

Hahahaha. Yeah, no. People who do LFR and LFR only just wouldn't raid if there was no LFR. This is a game, this isn't a life choice, you play something because it's fun, you don't stick around with something unfun because it exists. You need to figure out why you're "playing" this game.

And if you ARE having fun with LFR, then what's the issue? Why should you be forced into normal or heroic?

[kamuimac]

Same can be said for his argument. From past and Classic launch we can see healthy raiding community without nees of LFR.

brave words considering how numbers suggest 90% drop off in classic already and its month 3 after launch

8.3 will show us once again how raid or die mentality is affecting game

blizzard gutted all content for casual players tailoring game only for raiders.

lets see how it will effect game.

im personaly betting that 2020 will be tragic for wow because now everyone is screwed. its last tier of expansion without any real "goal" unless you plan to raid mythic. all grind that people will do into corrupted pieces will be rendered usless as soon as prepatch comes and in new expansion leveling greens will be as always much better then normal/hc gear. so why farm in first place

casuals got screwed too because now they have no way to progress their toons if they dont raid so they will just go and play something else like they did in WoD.

and what is worst we are looking at release schedule of december 2020/january 2021 with nothing to do in game that would be worth it if you dont raid mythic.

imo they should push the panic button - rescale mage tower to BfA dmg values and open it again because without it will be see collosal dropp off - but sure Preach and other raiding youtubers will rejoice that they have something to show on their twitch streams while they spend hundreds of hours farming corrupted stuff

[Elias01]

Hahahaha. Yeah, no. People who do LFR and LFR only just wouldn't raid if there was no LFR. This is a game, this isn't a life choice, you play something because it's fun, you don't stick around with something unfun because it exists. You need to figure out why you're "playing" this game.

And if you ARE having fun with LFR, then what's the issue? Why should you be forced into normal or heroic?

Yes you do. Efficienci always wins over fun. Everytime you go into LFE people have this lets get over it attitude. I dont have fun doing LFR but its far more efficient way how to experience content than doing mythic. Yes it is super boring way hiw to experience mythic but it just saves so much time.

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brave words considering how numbers suggest 90% drop off in classic already and its month 3 after launch

8.3 will show us once again how raid or die mentality is affecting game

blizzard gutted all content for casual players tailoring game only for raiders.

lets see how it will effect game.

im personaly betting that 2020 will be tragic for wow because now everyone is screwed. its last tier of expansion without any real "goal" unless you plan to raid mythic. all grind that people will do into corrupted pieces will be rendered usless as soon as prepatch comes and in new expansion leveling greens will be as always much better then normal/hc gear. so why farm in first place

casuals got screwed too because now they have no way to progress their toons if they dont raid so they will just go and play something else like they did in WoD.

and what is worst we are looking at release schedule of december 2020/january 2021 with nothing to do in game that would be worth it if you dont raid mythic.

imo they should push the panic button - rescale mage tower to BfA dmg values and open it again because without it will be see collosal dropp off - but sure Preach and other raiding youtubers will rejoice that they have something to show on their twitch streams while they spend hundreds of hours farming corrupted stuff

Where did you get 90%? Becouse for last month Classic WoW revenue is above Call of Duty Modern Warfare dont know number anymore. And i doubth that CoD sold so little.

[Very rare pepe]

10 man mythic difficulty, raiding for me at least was at its best in WOTLK with 10 man content with optional hardmodes and later on 10 man HC difficulty. It is horrible going from a flex HC guild to a mythic 20 man guild. I have done this a few times since legion and it is awful.

[Elias01]

10 man mythic difficulty, raiding for me at least was at its best in WOTLK with 10 man content with optional hardmodes and later on 10 man HC difficulty. It is horrible going from a flex HC guild to a mythic 20 man guild. I have done this a few times since legion and it is awful.

There wasnt 10 man mythic. There was 10 man heroic and its loot was below 25 man heroic. It was exact same thing what is current 10 man heroic. Adding 10 man mythic would requare another 15 itemlvl which would only increases power creep even more.

[Soikona]

For me, class transmog. My motivation to do mythic, hell any raiding, this expansion is gone because of it. I went for cutting edge not because of the challenge, not because of the titles but for the class specific transmog! When they removed that, to save money on art design, I couldn’t be fooked to raid. I tried, but i just ended up dreading going to raids.

[kranur]

I don't think rewards are what's causing it to be more or less appealing, talking about mythic raiding. Sure, if it didn't reward anything less people would do it.
But I think that the biggest factor is the time investment required and the inflexibility. Having it scale a little with the number of players similar to normal/heroic may help a little so that players don't feel forced to have to choose should RL need them, but probably not significantly and the time sink will still be there.
That is why mythic+ is so popular. It provides a challenge at high keys, it rewards good loot (not as good and fast as raiding in most cases but not far behind) and it doesn't take 4 hours for 2+ days.
Alas, mythic raiding's intention is to be for the dedicated ones so I don't expect any changes in mentality. At least now as opposed to the past, you can still progress your character without a big commitment.

[Gorsameth]

Not true.

Current Mythic IS what old Heroic was. The only question now is if 10 Heroic or 25 Heroic was more properly tuned to 20 man Mythic, which one can only guess 25 was as that was considered the 'harder' version at the time. (And it's closer in number.)

But as for a direct comparison, there is none - Because Mythic wasn't a mode during ICC, so the hardest mode was Heroic. Heroic then wasn't tuned less than Mythic now though, they simply renamed the mode, not changed the actual difficulty - They replaced old Heroic with Mythic. Current Heroic is more like old Normal. Current normal is like Flex, which didn't exist in Wrath - That's where the disconnect exists, not at Mythic.

On one hand yes, your entirely right.

On the other. I think fights have gotten harder since the days of WoTLK especially in recent times with the second half of Legion and BfA.

[Battlebeard]

I talked about this in other threads, but raids need to be more easily accessible.

The system of LFR, meaning you queue up, should be avaliable for Normal and Heroic modes. To queue Normal, you need to have cleared it on LFR as well as having XXX ilvl, and to queue in on Heroic you need to have cleared it on normal and have XXX ilvl.

Or simply remove achievements from raids, and outlaw logs/RIO/armory. I am serious, this is killing the game, it turns the community cold and rude and excludes so many people.

[Jtbrig7390]

Want to make raiding more appealing, Then make it queable.

The player controlled element is the biggest turn off of trying to raid higher than LFR. No one wants to deal with a asshat 13 raid leader or some guild group wanting to hog loot.

Until NM+ is queable it won't be appealing for the majority of the playerbase.

[Raelbo]

So with no class sets or tier bonuses coming in Shadowlands initially what rewards do you think blizzard should add to raiding to make it more appealing for both casual and hardcore players? Or do you think raiding rewards are fine as is?

If someone isn't raiding because the rewards aren't appealing enough, then my honest opinion is that the problem is that said individual simply doesn't like raiding, and as such trying to bribe them into raiding would be counter productive.

[Battlebeard]

This is precisely the problem. Though raiders will never admit it, because these things make it very convenient for them.

RIO, Gearscore, Armory, Achievements - All of these were introduced as ways for people to vet group members before inviting them, so they can have more successful raid runs by ensuring the people who they invite have some knowledge of what to do before inviting.

The problem these things have, is it makes it FAR too convenient to deny people access to groups. We see it most in RIO - You're denied for most M+ groups if you haven't done enough M+ this season to have a high score. You're denied from progress groups in the raid finder because you don't have better gear than the gear that drops in raid. You're denied access to today's raid because you haven't already cleared today's raid before.

I fully understand the opposite point of view - You have every right to deny people from your group for any reason. But this hurts the game, because it doesn't foster growth. Players simply find a wall at some point because other players won't invite them, and they can't lead because they haven't done the content before. And when they hit that wall - They stop. There is no fun in trying to find a group, and it's especially worse when you keep getting denied access to groups because players don't like your ilevel or score. Why even bother to TRY to join that scene when you already hate the idea of spending time in that scene?

So yeah. This is long winded and it's essentially just agreeing with you, but I'm quite upset by these things as I'm sure you can tell.

And remember, at the end of the day, it's just a game. 99,99% of us play it for fun while 0.01% play it professionally. It has turned into something more than just a hobby, and I don't like the development.

Just look at the game "Lord of the Rings Online", which is my favorite game of all time. Becuase the game is "dying" in comparison to WoW, the community has become completely awesome. Like everyone gets a chance and invites to everything. You can ask in their World chat like "can someone help me clear this dungeon" and you get tons of answers, people line up to spend an hour helping you, and in return, you wanna do it for others as well. Kindness creates more kindness. That would NEVER happen in WoW. The community here is sick and I don't think it can ever be cured

[Raelbo]

I talked about this in other threads, but raids need to be more easily accessible.

The system of LFR, meaning you queue up, should be avaliable for Normal and Heroic modes. To queue Normal, you need to have cleared it on LFR as well as having XXX ilvl, and to queue in on Heroic you need to have cleared it on normal and have XXX ilvl.

Sorry but I disagree. Queueble content and challenging content are mutually exclusive concepts.

Adding those kinds of requirements for people to use queuable content isn't going to magically solve the problem because they don't ensure that the raiders trying to access the feature meet the real requirements to be a successful raid participant.

The solution to the problem already exists, and it has existed since the game started: People need to join a community if they want to tackle challenging group content.

[Battlebeard]

Sorry but I disagree. Queueble content and challenging content are mutually exclusive concepts.

Adding those kinds of requirements for people to use queuable content isn't going to magically solve the problem because they don't ensure that the raiders trying to access the feature meet the real requirements to be a successful raid participant.

The solution to the problem already exists, and it has existed since the game started: People need to join a community if they want to tackle challenging group content.

Well, by community do you mean guilds? While I'm sure most people are in a guild, not everyone can raid with them. Most guilds raid 2+ days and usually a few hours per session. While it worked fine when I studied, my work makes it impossible to attend raids regulary.

Pugging doesn't and shouldn't be considered a second hand choice. To raid with strangers is not a bad thing, infact, it's more exciting than the same old people every day. It should be a way to build a good community, to make new friends and to see new prespectives. Instead it has become a nightmare. And Blizzard are to blame for alot of it.

[Ssateneth]

it needs less loot drops per person. also remove wf / tf