[UK] General Election 2019

[Aeula]

And Corbyn’s marxist ideas get stomped once again. He lost to Theresa fucking May, what made that idiot think he could take on Boris?

Overall a great night. Labour demolished, the LibDem leader dethroned, Tories with a majority for the next 5 years and best of all? Social Media socialists crying for the death of their communist Britain “revolution”.

[mojojojo202]

I am much more disappointed than I thought I'd be and it's probably for a different reason than many are; I am fucking sick of Brexit.

The truth is, I dont care about Brexit, it really isn't important to me and I am deeply disappointed that it is still being billed as the biggest issue of our time because it isn't, it isnt anywhere fucking close.

The issue of our time is climate change. All the evidence suggests that we are riding the precipice of destruction, that without significant and wide ranging social and economic reforms the human race is literally playing with fire.

A big Tory win means that level of reform is entirely off the table. Labour and others policies were also sorely lacking in this area but I at least had some slight chance either of being convinced or being a stepping stone for more radical reform. Not a possibility under the Tories.

Emphasis now shifts over the the US election next year, if a Republican or a 'centrist' Democrat wins we are totally and completely fucked and life just becomes a matter of having as much fun as one can until human society collapses in on itself.

[rogueMatthias]

The issue of our time is climate change. All the evidence suggests that we are riding the precipice of destruction, that without significant and wide ranging social and economic reforms the human race is literally playing with fire..

Nah climate change is a thing and it's happening. Fighting it is important and governments are already doing a huge amount to help fight it, and could probably do more.

The alarmist version of it that's been in the media has been going on for the past century. It's nothing more than doomsday conspiracies. Even back in the 90s they were making movies about how we'd all be living under water and growing gills by now. The problem is that this has been hijacked and pushed for political reasons. The "Green Deal" is a thinly disguised excuse to add various labour laws. Even Greta has been going on about how capitalism and "the patriarchy" are the causes of climate change.

We'll be fine. IT certainly wouldn't hurt to make more laws so we don't live in a waste covered shithole though.

[Howel]

The "Green Deal" is a thinly disguised excuse to add various labour laws.

Reminds me off a quite old conservative pundit line: "Greens are like melons, green on the outside, red on the inside"

[Monster Hunter]

As some one who would probably classify as a neo-liberal globalist.

I respect @Theodarzna rather sucisantly and well written points over the last few pages.

Though I disagree an some points (surprisingly I agree on a more than I'd dare to admit, but I don't see that as neo-liberalism is the problem, more, neo-liberalism has problems it needs to fix internally)

I think they have raised very important points regarding the state of the current left wing, it's troubles with elections, the state of the UK working class. Its a shame there just posting here in a no name forum and not leading the discussion instead of people like Owen Jones and nigal farrage.

Were really lacking at least some one who's willing to deep dive into the issues rather than just making sound bites and skimming over the political surface.

[mojojojo202]

They will have to at least adher to some minimum level of protections to get any kind of deal with the EU.

That's sort of the problem. They'll do the bare minimum, or as previous Tory governments have done, just refuse to do even that much.

[Monster Hunter]

Despite getting an overall low percentage and no seats, I wouldn't discount the impact Farage had.
The Brexit party was only running in areas where theyd proved they were just drawing voters from Labour in their strongholds, and not impacting Tory votes.

If that's true, they certainly helped ensure some seats. You can see in many, like Blyth Valley - a 70 year Labour seat, that with the Brexit party voters Labour would easily have won.

I think on the whole it's true. And was a sound stratagy ill admit.

I do think that there were seats that could have swung conservative but the brexit party split the leave vote and saved Labour.

Like the seat where the brexit chairman stood, that one seem pritty obvious that the cons and BXP had split the vote and let Labour hold it as both cons and BXP combined would have had a huge majority there.

But as a national picture I think your right and the BXP mostly bled from labour and combined with the Lib Dems it was enough to let Conservatives squeeze through.

[mojojojo202]

Nah climate change is a thing and it's happening. Fighting it is important and governments are already doing a huge amount to help fight it, and could probably do more.

The alarmist version of it that's been in the media has been going on for the past century. It's nothing more than doomsday conspiracies. Even back in the 90s they were making movies about how we'd all be living under water and growing gills by now. The problem is that this has been hijacked and pushed for political reasons. The "Green Deal" is a thinly disguised excuse to add various labour laws. Even Greta has been going on about how capitalism and "the patriarchy" are the causes of climate change.

We'll be fine. IT certainly wouldn't hurt to make more laws so we don't live in a waste covered shithole though.

Your hedging a lot on climate change not being that bad seemingly just because it is politically inconvenient for you.

I will be genuinely pleased if you are right it I just don't have the faith in anything anymore to believe that.

Also, the problem with the 'they cried wolf before' narrative is that at the end of the story their is a wolf and the kid gets torn to shreds.

[rogueMatthias]

Reminds me off a quite old conservative pundit line: "Greens are like melons, green on the outside, red on the inside"

HAha not far off. Reading Green deals is mostly like -

• Commitment to zero carbon emissions by 2030; Sounds a reach, but lets go for it!
• Large-scale investment in renewables;I can get behind this. Woop!
• A just transition to well-paid, unionised, green jobs available for all;wait a minute..
• A green industrial revolution expanding public, democratic ownership as far as necessary for the transformation;so "green" nationalisation of everything?
• Assuring everyone’s basic rights through the provision of social services;How's that green??
• Increasing taxes on the top % to pay for new green provisions and services;I see what you're doing here

[Howel]

Also, the problem with the 'they cried wolf before' narrative is that at the end of the story their is a wolf and the kid gets torn to shreds.

To be fair, that parallel, would be that switching to green energy and such would result in disaster; not climate change actually happening

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HAha not far off. Reading Green deals is mostly like -

• Commitment to zero carbon emissions by 2030; Sounds a reach, but lets go for it!
• Large-scale investment in renewables;I can get behind this. Woop!
• A just transition to well-paid, unionised, green jobs available for all;wait a minute..
• A green industrial revolution expanding public, democratic ownership as far as necessary for the transformation;so "green" nationalisation of everything?
• Assuring everyone’s basic rights through the provision of social services;How's that green??
• Increasing taxes on the top % to pay for new green provisions and services;I see what you're doing here

It's the usual thing with those kind of deals/legislations/etc., is that everyone and every aspect of ideology has to be included. Like the conservative green deal proposal we had 4 years ago, was a fairly heavy deregulation on companies (some of it was frankly a joke how little it had to do with anything green) and aiding farmers, that it was actually getting hard to defend to the public as "just" a deal to combat climate change.

It is kind of shame, really, that we can't just have deals that are what they are supposed to be. The woes of representative democracy I guess.

[mojojojo202]

To be fair, that parallel, would be that switching to green energy and such would result in disaster; not climate change actually happening

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It's the usual thing with those kind of deals/legislations/etc., is that everyone and every aspect of ideology has to be included. Like the conservative green deal proposal we had 4 years ago, was a fairly heavy deregulation on companies (some of it was frankly a joke how little it had to do with anything green) and aiding farmers, that it was actually getting hard to defend to the public as "just" a deal to combat climate change.

It is kind of shame, really, that we can't just have deals that are what they are supposed to be. The woes of representative democracy I guess.

What??????

[Howel]

What??????

You know what, I just realized, that was wrong...

It would be climate change that would be the disaster. Never mind, I need some coffee apparently!

[rogueMatthias]

Sturgeon before the election: This election isn't about Independence. Labour need to vote SNP to keep the Tories out!
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ics-of-despair

Sturgeon after election: INDYREF2!! It was just about NUUU MANDATEE!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50766014

FFS. She's so predictable.

- - - Updated - - -

It is kind of shame, really, that we can't just have deals that are what they are supposed to be. The woes of representative democracy I guess.

Yeah agreed on this. I think (last post off topic) that the "Green" deals all bunch together any different threats we have, at the failing of them all. For instance, even if you think Global warming isn't an imminent catastrophe in the next decade, the waste (especially plastic in the oceans) has got to shit show levels.

[Dhrizzle]

That's pretty fanciful tbh.

Labour+Lib Dem+Green = 215 seats, including the SNP, Plaid, Alliance and the SDLP gets to 270 that's still nearly 100 seats short of the Tories which would have to be made up without the support of Labour heartlands in the Midlands and the North.

A remainer simply could not have won this election.

52% of voters chose a party that was either Pro-Remain or wanted a different deal with second referendum.

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Congratz to UK for defeating communist and antisemites. Reason prevailed.

A great victory for billionaire bankers and media moguls that manage to brainwash people into believing Labour are more antisemitic than the Conservatives. A terrible loss for people dealing with chronic or mental illness and the 4.5 million children in poverty.

[Howel]

Yeah agreed on this. I think (last post off topic) that the "Green" deals all bunch together any different threats we have, at the failing of them all. For instance, even if you think Global warming isn't an imminent catastrophe in the next decade, the waste (especially plastic in the oceans) has got to shit show levels.

I agree with the waste problem as well; that is something that is at least completely and undeniably something we can see before our very eyes. Not to drive the off-topic further (so no need to respond), but just a fun little side story to that. We have an actual Neo-Nazi party (luckily no representatives), but weirdly enough, waste is one of their main driving points and how we gotta protect and respect our beautiful nature, and it is just weird to think of Nazis that run partially on a platform like that

[rogueMatthias]

Yeah, 45% is not an ironclad mandate in any shape or form. SNP remains the one party that profits the most from the undemocratic FPTP system, gaining 81% of the seats with 45% of the vote.

The fact that +1.2% more of the vote from 2017 gets 7.2% of the seats for the Tories is quite busted as well ofc.

Yea the percentage of votes SNP got literally only went up 0.8% since the last election but because of other losses and fptp it changes the outlook entirely.

Even the conservatives only got 1.2% more of the votes than the last election. FPTP HAS to go. The fact people are finding themselves forced to do all this tactical voting now shows how awful and outdated our system is.

[Blayze]

Now we wait for Labour to decide that the only way to beat the Sith is to become them (again), thus making the whole exercise pointless.

Then the Tories will see Labour moving to the centre and respond by moving further right because they can get away with it.

In the meantime, we get to enjoy at least five more years of defunded public services, rampant poverty, unemployment and homelessness, all because people got upset at the people trying to stop them from voting their human rights and food standards away.

This fucking country.

[ati87]

Honestly the only thing that could have won against Johnson in a Brexit election was a Remainer electoral pact. Which as a failure is on both Labour and Lib Dems.

A pact wouldn't do much if one of the parties is not fully behind it (Corbyn ).
A new election was Inevitable but what was the point in doing on Johnson's terms...before you actually had the chance to start building a case against him.

[Howel]

Now we wait for Labour to decide that the only way to beat the Sith is to become them (again), thus making the whole exercise pointless.

Blair/Brown 2.0 here we come baby!

[Monster Hunter]

Now we wait for Labour to decide that the only way to beat the Sith is to become them (again), thus making the whole exercise pointless.

Then the Tories will see Labour moving to the centre and respond by moving further right because they can get away with it.

In the meantime, we get to enjoy at least five more years of defunded public services, rampant poverty, unemployment and homelessness, all because people got upset at the people trying to stop them from voting their human rights and food standards away.

This fucking country.

If the torys move further right because labour moves to the center they would be stupid and loose.

How many times do party's that move out to the wings need to loose and how crushing does that defeat need to be to realise that jn the UK dispite what the far leftys and far rights keep saying, abandoning the political center is election suicide.

Corbyn moved Labour from center left to middle left and inturn changed a party that was only just loosing elections and had previously held power for over a decade to a party that has Completly obliterated it ability to be even effective opposition.

The political wings are a desolate wasteland of un electability in the UK, always has been and always will be.